lathe vs milling machine

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I am trying to find out which would better suit my needs and what all kind of things can be done on them,I want to get one of them next year .no matter which one i get it will be a small one to start with.Here is alittle about me I live in the country have a tractor and all the attachments for it i made a balespike ,carryall stuff like that I am always built stuff like a 20ton press, welding bench ,tool stand .I work on atvs also and cars.so what do you think i could use more i think a lathe but i have never used either one.I am a cabinet builder by trade just do metal as a hobby.I have 3 welders,cutting torch,plasma cutter all the normal metal tools,I am building a dry cut saw now.
Reply:I have both and use the lathe twice as much as my milling machine. I couldn't live without either one but if I had to chose only one to keep it would be my lathe.
Reply:they really complement each other.   Personally i use my Bridgeport a lot more than the latheVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I have neither and have used neither but am interested in learning more and acquiring both some day.The thing that I don't understand is that whenever this question is asked, it seems that most folks respond with "buy...or... I use the lathe 2-3 times as much as the mill..." ???No I know the the question is always, "well...what are you going to be using it for"....and yes that would go a long way to making a decision as to which one you would buy, but, for general overall shop fab, why the lathe and not the mill?It seems to me that the lathe can turn parts, thread, bore, drill...but your limited to applications (at least in my limited brain) that turn in a circle. A mill (at least in my limited brain) seems to be so much more versatile for overall use in a fab shop. And it too can do a lot of the same things a lathe does but on a more limited basis.I've been reading, researching, watching youtube on all the videos, but I'm confused. Can anyone help? Why is the lathe so much more "desirable" then a mill?
Reply:Originally Posted by Tim MI have neither and have used neither but am interested in learning more and acquiring both some day.The thing that I don't understand is that whenever this question is asked, it seems that most folks respond with "buy...or... I use the lathe 2-3 times as much as the mill..." ???No I know the the question is always, "well...what are you going to be using it for"....and yes that would go a long way to making a decision as to which one you would buy, but, for general overall shop fab, why the lathe and not the mill?It seems to me that the lathe can turn parts, thread, bore, drill...but your limited to applications (at least in my limited brain) that turn in a circle. A mill (at least in my limited brain) seems to be so much more versatile for overall use in a fab shop. And it too can do a lot of the same things a lathe does but on a more limited basis.I've been reading, researching, watching youtube on all the videos, but I'm confused. Can anyone help? Why is the lathe so much more "desirable" then a mill?
Reply:I would give my left leg for a lathe (better be a good one), but I can live without a mill.  I do a lot of farm equipment repair.  Lots of it is rotating assemblies due to bearings going out and the like.  Now that I think about it....right leg, I'd give my right leg.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Hey hondaman,If you want to keep your initial investment to a minimum & start with smaller items to machine, you may want to consider a combo unit lathe/mill. HF has a decent one that would get you started learning both processes & allow you make some smaller items to get the feel of machining both round & sq./rect. material. I have both a lathe & mill & use both equally as far as projects or making replacement parts for customers. I believe a couple of the members here have & use one with excellent results. Just some food-for-thought. Here's a link to the HF unit:http://www.harborfreight.com/garage-...eed-44142.htmlDennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I would advise you to start with a lathe the largest one you can afford.  Look for used.
Reply:I have a large mill and a good assortment of tooling. I also have a small lathe with a not so good assortment of tooling.I've had the lathe about three years, the mill about a year. So far I use the mill at least as much as the lathe.This could be because this particular mill is about 100 times the machine that the lathe is and the mill has a DRO wheras the lathe does not.In general, when working on square or rectangular stuff, it seems to end up in the mill. When working on round stock it most often gets done on the lathe.As someone mentioned, buy the biggest and best machine you can find. Don't worry about age as long as the machine is not worn out. A lot of us woodworkers covet the really old heavy duty machines because they were overbuilt and handle the intended job without any sign of strain or wear.I expect many machinists think the same way.
Reply:HII also have both and use the lathe much more than the mill.As for projects or use that is up to your needs or imagination but once you start to use a lathe you will fine more to do.  Check out the web there are many sites like http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/index.php that will show you things other have used either for.  Also look at youtube too.  You can adapt a lathe to do more milling operations the adapting a mill to do lathe operations.  Here is just on I did with my lathe and not my mill.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgZol6Mfvo[/ame].    There are many tools that you can make which a lathe is needed like bead roller, ring rollers, English wheel again its up to what you need or want you will not be sorry you bought one.  I would suggest you buy at least a 12” lathe but don’t buy the stand make you own.Have funTom
Reply:Here's the mill.It came out of a GM/Delphi plant that shut down when GM went broke.It's a Kearney and Trecker Universal all hydraulic built in 1973, weighs 14,000 pounds.Condition is excellent , no visible signs of wear according to my machinist Buddy. Attached Images
Reply:I've got a Taiwanese 10" x 50" knee mill w/ DRO...use it all the time.  The DRO makes setups really easy.  I would advise you to stay away from the smaller mill/drills.  They have very limited capabilities and the lack of a knee will drive you crazy.I just bought a '78 South Bend 10" lathe for $800.  This machine couldn't have more than 200 hours on it....practically brand new.  Stocking up on tools now so it's too soon to tell which (mill or lathe) will end up the most useful.To be honest, the most useful machine tool I have (so far) is a 7x12 horizontal band saw.I don't know how I ever made it without it.  It's almost as useful as a set of wrenches...no joke.Miller 211 w/ spool gunMiller Dynasty 200DXLongevity 60i IGBT plasmaO/A w/ crappy chinese torch/gaugesSouth Bend 10K latheGrizzly 4029 10x54 millGrizzly 7x12 hor bandsawangle grnders, bench grnder, bench belt sndr7.5 hp 80gal cmprsor
Reply:I have and use both, but the lathe gets used at least twice as often.IMHO don't go with combo units they end up being less than ideal at either being a lathe or a mill. Get at least one size bigger than you think you will need. The micro/mini lathes or mills for that matter that can be had for a few hundred bucks are really limited to very small parts and lack power and stability to do much.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:I have a Smithy Mill/Drill.  I picked it up many years ago when they had a truckload sale at a local hotel.   I would say it is usefel - not great.  The mill has a pretty limited travel in any direction, and the lathe doesn't have much power or much precision.   I wouldn't have one if I needed to make something really high quality, but for the occasional fix-it job it works fine.  I do find myself turning small parts on the lathe pretty regularly, and I can hold them to a couple thousands of an inch if I'm careful.  I suppose if you took your time, and tuned it up really good you could make some high precision stuff with it, but it would never be confused with a quality piece of equipment.  My desire would be to have a Bridgeport and a full size toolroom type lathe, however I can't justify the cost or the space right now. The reason a lathe is more useful than a mill is that you can generally make parts that a mill would make - albeit with less precision - with other tools.  You'd be surprised what you can create with a hacksaw and a file.   However you can't make round parts by hand, no matter how much time you take or how good you are.  It takes a lathe to turn parts.
Reply:I recall reading in "The Navy Repairmans Manual" that the mill is the only machine capable of replicating itself."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hondaman I have a lathe and a 3-in-1 mill, drill and lathe and those two tools are just about equal in the use department.  If I could only keep one I would have to keep the 3-in-1 due to versatility.  Yes that type of machine has drawbacks, and work arounds and is limited in max size but for the money and what I get for what I have invested it is probably the most versatile tool in the shop second to the plasma table.  It allows me the opportunity to turn, shape and drill as opposed to turning and shallow drilling on the lathe.  The HF 3-in-1's have a very large user group and a fairly easy accurizing routine available for free that really helps with getting it zeroed in and making accurate parts.  There are also the smithy and Bolton machines that even though imported from china do pretty good as far as holding true and can maintain sub .0005 measurements consistently.  All depends on what size you need, and what your doing.  Best advice is always buy at least one step larger than you think you will need to avoid constantly being at the limit of the machine both power and size wise.  Just another thought to throw in the mix, Good luck with what you decide.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:I want to thank everyone for there help and advice after watching u tube and what you guys had to say i think i will buy a lathe.I think a used  atleast big enough to turn 24" bigger if I can find a deal not lookn to spend alot under a $1000 seen some on cl and ebay that fit my ticket most were craftsman which from what i read altas made.So what do I look for in a lathe as far as how to tell if its good working and what features and so on.
Reply:OK, CALM DOWN, STEP AWAY FROM THE CREDIT CARD!!!!!!!Before you throw the mill, and the baby, out with the bathwater.........consider what the lowly milling machine can do..............................For most stuff I do, the mill does a wonderful job.  Just sayin'It slots, it faces, it bores, it cuts gears, it................................................  .WELL, IT SLICES AND DICES  Yeah sure, a lathe can be modified with all sorts of accessories, but the mill is VERY VERSATILE Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I have a 16" southbend lathe with a 8' table that I bought off of CL for a song.  lathe has power crossfeed and power table feed by-directional 4 spd belt driven with an 1.5" hole through the head, great for turning LONG stuff.  HEAVY machine very little wear still has the original machining marks on the table, has done more sitting than anything.  I see these on CL quite often.  Currently looking for a Mill but would have to agree they do compliment one another.  dont think you would go wrong which ever you buy first you will adapt and learn to work the one you have to get the job done till you get the otherHypertherm PM 1000 on a CNC TableMiller Maxtron 450 - S52A series feederHobart Handler Lincoln 155 (my sons he's 11)looking to sell or Trade a RFC-23A foot pedalCustom diesel parts fabricator
Reply:So what mill would you guys rec and be specific.  CNC and ease of learning curve consideredHypertherm PM 1000 on a CNC TableMiller Maxtron 450 - S52A series feederHobart Handler Lincoln 155 (my sons he's 11)looking to sell or Trade a RFC-23A foot pedalCustom diesel parts fabricator
Reply:HondamanI spent 18 years in the machine shop and have run both.  I also have been a rancher /farmer and welder.   You say it would be a small one to start with.  You are talking apples and oranges here.  You can't turn round stock on a bridgeport and you can't drill a hole pattern or mill a slot on a simple lathe.  To me a bridgeport would be my pick because that suits my needs best but your needs might be different.  If you can get only one....figure out the one that suits your needs best.  Or better yet...max out the credit cards and get both.....you'll have most of your machining needs met.
Reply:I have the following machines:1910's  Flather & Co. 20" Lathe1919    Hendey Machine Co.12" Lathe1954    Southbend Lathe Works 9" Lathe1910’s  Silver Manufacturing Co. 20" Camelback Drill Press1910's  Rockford Drilling Machine Co. Camelback Drill Press1950's  Diamond Tool Co. M-22 Horizontal Milling Machine1964    Index 645 Vertical Milling Machine1920's  John Steptoe Co. 16" Shaper1940's  Joba 15" ShaperI like the vintage stuff for my home shop. I just sold a 1924 18" lathe for $1000. There are a lot of old running machines available. Link to the lathe I just sold:  http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...e-sale-209393/Keep you eyes open on this site. Lathes are for sale all the time.My opinion: If you buy a lathe, buy the biggest lathe you can afford and have space for. My 9" lathe is only good for making tinker toys.  The 12" lathe is heavy duty but only good for work up to 6 inches.  My 20" lathe will cut anything.  I wouldn't get anything less than 18" swing.  You will always come across a job that is just a hair too big for your lathe.  The bigger the better. As far as mills/lathes go - its a toss up.  Depends on what type of work you get involved with.  Why not plan on buying both? Attached ImagesLast edited by WFM; 08-20-2010 at 01:37 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornHere's the mill.It came out of a GM/Delphi plant that shut down when GM went broke.It's a Kearney and Trecker Universal all hydraulic built in 1973, weighs 14,000 pounds.Condition is excellent , no visible signs of wear according to my machinist Buddy.
Reply:I also have both and use the lathe much more, good tools are expensive which ever one you chose.... I second or third that the Drill/lathe combe is a wast of money, i hear  many owners that wish they never bought it, look around and you can find both for less that a new combe unit....I did..$400for lathe and $600 for mill, not top of the line but pretty good quality machines.........
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammOK, CALM DOWN, STEP AWAY FROM THE CREDIT CARD!!!!!!!Before you throw the mill, and the baby, out with the bathwater.........consider what the lowly milling machine can do..............................For most stuff I do, the mill does a wonderful job.  Just sayin'It slots, it faces, it bores, it cuts gears, it................................................  .WELL, IT SLICES AND DICES  Yeah sure, a lathe can be modified with all sorts of accessories, but the mill is VERY VERSATILEOriginally Posted by William McCormick JrWhat is that notched circular thing you got going there Sam?       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:If you get a Rotary table and a Universal dividing head for the Mill  then a great number of things can be done with it.A Wohlhaupter automatic boring/facing head increases the Mill's job list even more. These were developed in the 1930s in Germany and became the standard of excellence in boring/facing heads. A medium sized Wohlhaupter costs about $4,000 new but good used ones can be had for a few hundred dollars.I agree with what others have said here, once you have a mill and a lathe you wouldn't want to be without either. Also the bigger the better for both machines.Not only do bigger machines have much more capacity, they can remove a lot more metal when needed and they tend to have a lot more expensive features.I would avoid the little Craftsman/ Atlas lathes. My friend has one, it is mostly made of pot metal. Honestly I think you are better off with a decent Taiwan Southbend copy than with an Atlas. I have a 12" Taiwan/ Southbend , it's quite decent. Better still get a real Southbend , or even better than the Southbend, find one of the really big old American or British built lathes, provided you have space, power and can afford the moving cost!Do have someone in the know check the machine out for wear. Lathe beds tend to get wear in the ways right in the area where the carriage spends most of it's time, that is, where the carriage sits when working close to the chuck. It is a tricky and expensive job to build up and remachine the ways.
Reply:When I first started in Machining, I bought one of the little 7x12 mini-lathes and, shortly after, got the mini-mill as well. I learned lots, but they just don't have much power.I now have a McDougal 20" x 48" lathe. This beast is a WWII veteran. I was testing it on some misc steel approximately 2 1/2" diameter just the other day. It could turn off 0.300" in one pass. That's 0.600" reduction in diameter!!!!!!! Gotta love have 7 1/2 ponies at your beck and call!I also bought a 1955 Gambin 2n universal milling machine. Haven't hooked it up yet, but the seller had been using it in his production shop. 5 HP on it now, although the manual says it was originally 8HP.This lathe and mill should last me for a while.The lathe is already paying its' way here on the farm. John Deere wanted over $1500 just for parts to replace the 23' of flighting in my air seeder cart auger. $100 later I had a tube and flighting from a neighbour that had bent his 36 foot sakundiak auger. Cut the flighting to the right length. Used the lathe to machine up the stubs for each end. Had the auger back together quicker (and cheaper) than Deere could get me the parts.  Plus, I've still got some flighting and most of the tube left for the next project.Andrew
Reply:My friend has an ancient McDougall about that same swing but with a 6 foot bed. He mostly uses it to make  parts for restoration of Vincent motorcycles. One day he made a special bronze 2 BA screw which goes inside of the 5" Smiths Chronometric (Vincent) This screw is so small that it would blow away and never seen again if you accidently sneezed on it.On the other end of the scale, as with your lathe, sometimes he is bulking off huge amounts in a single pass when doing ag equipment repairs for others.In addition to the ability to remove a lot of material fast,  you can  make a tiny part with a big lathe, but can't turn a big part with a small lathe.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornMy friend has an ancient McDougall about that same swing but with a 6 foot bed. He mostly uses it to make  parts for restoration of Vincent motorcycles. One day he made a special bronze 2 BA screw which goes inside of the 5" Smiths Chronometric (Vincent) This screw is so small that it would blow away and never seen again if you accidently sneezed on it.On the other end of the scale, as with your lathe, sometimes he is bulking off huge amounts in a single pass when doing ag equipment repairs for others.In addition to the ability to remove a lot of material fast,  you can  make a tiny part with a big lathe, but can't turn a big part with a small lathe.
Reply:He's away touring Europe for two months on one of his Vincents right now. When He gets back I can get some info on it.I know it was originally sold by Fairbanks Morse.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI recall reading in "The Navy Repairmans Manual" that the mill is the only machine capable of replicating itself.
Reply:I say mill.  Especially with a number of factories closed or closing right now they can just about be had for a song.  Same goes for a lathe but I feel like the mill can replace more tools that a guy starting out wants to buy with the right accessories.I picked up my 1944 bridgeport for $400 complete with an extra motor, static phase converter, crappy chinese vise, homemade riser, a bunch of lathe tooling the seller just gave me, jacobs chuck and a descent number of drill bits and end mills.  I had to move it and spent some good time cleaning it up but I couldn't argue with the price.  Last week I picked up a beefy kurt anglock vise for it for $110 from a factory that closed less than an hour away from me.  Attached are some pics as I was dismantling it at the sellers and after reassembly in my shopIn the coming weeks I'm going to be getting an old FE reed lathe for $100 without a motor. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornI know it was originally sold by Fairbanks Morse.
Reply:There are things in life that compliment each other together they are lot better when you have both:A good red wine and a rare steak or lamb chop, chili on my hot dog, premium tires on a performance car.All are good by themselves but a lot better together.In the machinists world its a lathe and mill.As to which I use more, its spotty, I go through periods that I really use the mill, and don't do much with the lathe, then a month later I am hard on the lathe and the mill is idle. ndthe there are days that I take parts off one and put it on the other. I my shop was bigger and I had loose $ I would another of each. I would set up one lathe to do grinding operations on ( only ), and the additional mill would be either a horizontal or a vertical with the horizontal adapter.
Reply:gotta get one of these Attached ImagesHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I would have to ask, do you have room for both? I have both but I waited for the right opportunity for each. You may not be able to control which one you come across first with the right deal.There are tons of industry auctions every week. There is so much cheap stuff to buy I go to very few but when I do I can usually get what I need. At the last auction  got a large index mill for $400. I got it hooked up and it needed nothing. I use it everyday. Same a while back with a good lath. I got 2 marble plate for $25 which included a nice digital micrometer, 1/2hp 3ph grinder $50, office full of furniture for $25. I spent $1000 for three truckloads of jun......I mean good stuff. If you have room for both look for a good deal and opportunity which arises first. If your still looking for the other, spend the time getting to know the first. The other will eventually come along too. Before you buy consider many are 3 phase. Don't get stuck with one you could not use.
Reply:you guys are keeping the credit card companies alive and well....I have to save for 6 months just to buy a couple of mill/lathe accesories......stuff is way to expensive..
Reply:" you guys are keeping the credit card companies alive and well....I have to save for 6 months just to buy a couple of mill/lathe accesories......stuff is way to expensive"Ebay and Craigslist, I am getting a reamer, 10% of new. I only look for new stuff when I absolutly need it or can't wait, or can't find it ( does happen ocassionally ).On the advice on avoiding 3 phase power, Don't suck it up and get it. If you don't you limit your buying options a bunch, and it puts you in the joe hobbist in his garage market mostly. Which means a lot less choices on equipment for more money. The three phase is an investment yes, once done you have it.When you put it in think big not small because it is a hassle and expensive later. I actually have three right now, one big boy 15 HP, and two smaller 5-7 hp units. One of the smaller units I installed step up transformers on so that leg I have 440V. Mine are all homemade rotary phase converters.One thing I don't do though is run my welders on the three phase. Best way to go about this is a long term plan done in stages. When you get machinery it eats up shop space quickly, is way heavy and a hassle to move, and wiring needs to be put in place. Further is the money side, planning slows you down and you start looking for good deals on machinery that fit your plan.Good luck
Reply:WFM,You have some way neat stuff. The planer...boy you don't see many of them anymore, and I like your horizontal mill, my next mill I am seriously looking to get a horizontal.OBTWI just ran across a vertical like your belt driven on for sale..
Reply:WFM, I love the pics of your machines especially the shapers. Not many peolple use them anmore or even know how to use them. I always enjoyed setting up and running the one we had in the shop when I went through school. Watchin the chips roll up and pop off the end of the cut, makes the coolest chips and if set up right and a good cutting tool they come off clean and you can hear a little (ting) when the come loose. I went through a rail road meusem a few years ago and they had one in the machine shop section it was made in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The tour guide was amazed that someone knew how to run it and even asked me a few questions about it, we were in a very small tour group. I dont know if he really didnt know about the machine or if he was just checking to see if I really khew what I was talking about, especially when someone in their late 30s was talking about having experience using  a 100 year old machine. Sorry for getting the post off topic.
Reply:I didn't suggest avoid 3phase I suggest consider weather it will work for you or not. It would be eas to get excited at an auction buy a mill for 400 and then realize your not set up for it. While 3phanse power makes life easier it depends on what peoples goals are and they have to look at them for them self. If some one is Joe hobbyist not interested in a machine shop but just one more tool; if they have a drill press but think they have enough money to squeeze in one more tool and it's just light hobby work, they will have to decide if it is worth phase converters, transformers. I do a lot of things which seem simple and easy for me such as building a simple heat treat oven controlled by a simple circuit but not everyone has the same desire to go through it even if I see the advantage of doing so.  Originally Posted by fredschrom" you guys are keeping the credit card companies alive and well....I have to save for 6 months just to buy a couple of mill/lathe accesories......stuff is way to expensive"Ebay and Craigslist, I am getting a reamer, 10% of new. I only look for new stuff when I absolutly need it or can't wait, or can't find it ( does happen ocassionally ).On the advice on avoiding 3 phase power, Don't suck it up and get it. If you don't you limit your buying options a bunch, and it puts you in the joe hobbist in his garage market mostly. Which means a lot less choices on equipment for more money. The three phase is an investment yes, once done you have it.When you put it in think big not small because it is a hassle and expensive later. I actually have three right now, one big boy 15 HP, and two smaller 5-7 hp units. One of the smaller units I installed step up transformers on so that leg I have 440V. Mine are all homemade rotary phase converters.One thing I don't do though is run my welders on the three phase. Best way to go about this is a long term plan done in stages. When you get machinery it eats up shop space quickly, is way heavy and a hassle to move, and wiring needs to be put in place. Further is the money side, planning slows you down and you start looking for good deals on machinery that fit your plan.Good luck
Reply:I have both, and while you can do similar jobs on both, they are really designed to do different things. I wouldn't be without one of each (mill and lathe). I do tend to use my Rockwell much more than the milling machine though.
Reply:Get the Lathe first. BIG lathes, say 13" or larger, are cheaper to buy then 1) and smaller because they can't easily be taken to a basement and you'll need a fork lift and heavy trailer to bring it home.