Getting 230v installed. Suggestions for machines

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I'm pretty decided on a 180 lincoln electric mig for a wire machine... Looking for another with stick and tig capabilities. Read through here and pretty much figured out that 120v machines weren't worth the money... Rather would have two nice 230v machines that would be more versa tile for my applications (BBQ pits, hog traps etc) and just the daily bead practice as I am starting school soon... Everything is coming out of my money and as the 180hd is around $850 dollars I have around another $1,000 to spend.. Would like to go new. Brands and suggestions of any type welcome...
Reply:Check out the TA fabricator series.  Or at 1800, you are close to a miller multimatic 200.   Just throwing out an alternative to the two machine idea.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:Longevity sells the Promts 200 which is a cheap version of the Thermal Arc 180. http://www.longevity-inc.com/multiprocess/promts-200Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Not trying to go cheap no offense I would like to stay to the basics like miller, lincoln, thermal arc etc... Can't risk buying a cheap machine
Reply:[QUOTE=Houstontx;4102341... Looking for another with stick and tig capabilities...[/QUOTE]Got a nice used Syncrowave 250 for $850.  By the time it was accessorized and had a Coolmate 3 cooler it was about $1,300., but that's the cost of doing business."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by DrooopyCheck out the TA fabricator series.  Or at 1800, you are close to a miller multimatic 200.   Just throwing out an alternative to the two machine idea.
Reply:Since your getting 230V installed, be sure to get more amps now than you think you will need in case you need more power later. If the machines you are thinking of only need 30 amps, get 50 installed at least or maybe a little more. The price of copper is steadily going up, so installing heavier gauge wire in the future will be costing more then.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxI checked out the 211 TA... Looks very promising. How does it fair with the processes? Any problems with it?
Reply:I've used my ta211 quite a bit on mig and tig and love it. plenty of power even when hooked to 115 volt,really comes alive on 230. Just make sure there is someone in your area that can fix it if it breaks! Oh yeah I've used it a little on smaw mostly stainless it works well too.
Reply:It also runs well off of a generator!
Reply:I'm with you on buying big name brands.  Miller, Lincoln or Hobart for the everyday user machine is my philosophy.  Walk into any and all LWS stores or even big box stores and you're more than likely to find parts and consumables for those "big 3" companies.  Not so for any other "off" brand.  Then talk about repair work.  Pretty much all the big LWS places will have a mechanic on site that can repair miller and Lincoln all under warranty.  Try that with the off brand companies.  Also, I personally like having one machine for just one process.  (TIG, mig, SMAW).   I don't care for multi process machines, but many people do.  Sure, the big-3 might be more expensive, but I like to buy big name brand stuff generally because they have proven themselves to be reputable for many years to come.  Choice is a great freedom we have.  Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Yes right now I am leaning towards a thermal arc 181i that runs 37 amps so I'm going to instal 50 on Wednesday when the electrician comes. Shouldn't be too costly right? My breaker box is about 75ish feet away fromMy garage where I will be welding... I'm going to have him instal the outlet next to box and just run an extension cord for when I want to weld... Simple enough.
Reply:I don't think I need the 211i, instead I'm going to go with the 181i and buy some nicer accessories for it like a nice torch. Yes there is a place with two technicians in my area that can repair it... But let's not talk about repairs I haven't even bought the machine yet :/
Reply:I think one big difference between the TA 181 and the TA 211 is the fact the 211 allows the use of a foot pedal where the smaller machine doesn't with tig. While not that critical with DC tig as it is with AC tig machines, it is nice when doing thin material and gives you more control.In general it's better to usually spend the money up front on a larger machine with more options and add accessories later, than it is to choose a smaller machine to save a few bucks up front..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:All the thermal arc machines ( 141I,181I,211I,252I)will take a remote control, be it a foot pedal or hand control .  As for tips for the fusion guns they come in bags of ten and only takes a couple of days for my lws to get them in. For a tig torch just look at getting a ck .
Reply:The money is there for me to buy a new 181 or 211.... But think about it... This is just to get my beads down... No industrial work intended except the making of a few BBQ pits and some animal traps... If you truly think the 211 is worth the extra bucks then I might buy it.
Reply:Thanks Milkerman. I didn't see the ability to use a remote listed when I pulled up the 181 earlier. I'll have to remember that..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxYes right now I am leaning towards a thermal arc 181i that runs 37 amps so I'm going to instal 50 on Wednesday when the electrician comes.
Reply:I'll have to talk to him about that when he gets here... Really didn't want to spend more than $500 on the electrician. I don't want to fry anything while melting metal so we'll see... Still contemplating on the 181 vs 211 though
Reply:Consider the portability issue 115v outlets are everywhere and don't require adapters.
Reply:I think the 181 will do what you need. I don't think the few extra amps are worth the money. As far as the dual input is concerned if you don't need it why pay extra for it. If you find out down the road that the 181 isn't enough machine you would want to go with something in the miller252 or Lincoln 256 size anyway.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Houstontx,Before you go dropping all that cash on a sparky and a new machine, have you considered practicing at TX/RX Labs (The Labs, for short)? Assuming you're at the southeast campus, we're less than 6 miles away. Our metal shop has 3-phase power and out welders include a Dynasty 200DX, Millermatic 350P, and a Syncrowave with a water-cooler. We also have an OA rig, plasmas (manual and CNC), bandsaws (vertical and horizontal), and lathes (handy for putting joint preps on pipe cupons). Membership (we're a membership-based non-profit) gives you 24/7 access to all of it. (Also, students get discounted membership.)I am there pretty much all the time, and have tutored other members who are learning to weld. I've been where you are, I once payed an absurd amount of money to have a 220V outlet installed in a previous house. Even once I spent much more than I expected getting my garage set up, I still couldn't use it for much of the time because the noise would bother the neighbors. Even when I could work out there, being all alone toiling away is not as much fun as you might expect (not to mention pretty unsafe). The Labs are in an area of warehouses so we can make as much noise as we want any time we want. Heck, one guy comes in several times a week to practice welding from like 9pm to 3am.Seriously, come visit us, we're at 205 Roberts (less than half a mile from the soccer stadium). We have open houses every Friday and Sunday or you can PM me if you want to come by a look around any other time.Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxRather would have two nice 230v machines that would be more versa tile for my applications (BBQ pits, hog traps etc) and just the daily bead practice as I am starting school soon... Everything is coming out of my money and as the 180hd is around $850 dollars I have around another $1,000 to spend..
Reply:That actually sounds like a fantastic idea... How much is the membership? And what is the price for a student? That is the campus I will be attending in the fall. Wow I was completley unaware of this.
Reply:Yes that's exactly what I intend to do. The reason why I would like multiple process machines is that my classes for welding will eventually go into the advanced pipe welding courses. So I would like to have a tig and stick set up.Originally Posted by HoustontxThat actually sounds like a fantastic idea... How much is the membership? And what is the price for a student? That is the campus I will be attending in the fall. Wow I was completley unaware of this.
Reply:So since you're in this area... Do you know any one looking for a helper/apprentice?
Reply:Sorry, I don't.I do know, however, that the Labs are looking into applying for government grants to start a sort of apprenticeship program where we work with local businesses to train machinist, woodworkers, welders, etc. for them at our facility, with our equipment. I don't know when or if this will happen (or how it will work).I would suggest that if at all possible, don't try to do work and go to school full-time at the same time. In my experience, most of the time, you just end up expending huge amounts of energy, making very little money, and learning even less. You would be far better served to use non-class time practising welding and more importantly expanding your skill set into things like machining, sheet-metal work, woodworking, foundry work, robotics, CAD/CAM, and electronics. You need to set yourself apart from the other hundreds or thousands of other fresh-out-of-high-school-but-with-a-1-year-certificate types. People who are highly skill and highly specialized may be able to make a lot of money but without a wide range of skills and knowledge they are vulnerable to changing technologies and outsourcing/automation.Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:Yes, I intend to be proficient in all areas and processes of welding hence me being open to buying this thermal arc... I'm not just going for a bs one year certificate :/ I'm going to do extra classes having to do with pipe welding and such. Also considered taking the diesel mechanic school there too.. But who knows. Welding will come first before anything
Reply:And working will have to be an option... Things are tight around my household and it needs my income no matter how little it would be... (I make like $8 an hour right now at a kitchen job) ****ty work... But makes me motivated to put myself out there in any way I can. To me finding an apprenticeship would be ideal as it would pay more and give me expierence.... More of a hands on guy
Reply:...even betterhttp://houston.craigslist.org/tls/4413169770.html40% DUTY CYCLE @ 175 AMPS
Reply:Trying to stay away from used machines... Never even heard if the brand systematic haha
Reply:Probably a good machine but you can buy a Lincoln 180 at HD for $669.  You'll also need a cylinder of 75/25 for steel.http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-E...2?N=5yc1vZc8lsDon't be afraid of used machines, especially not transformer based stick welders...GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxTrying to stay away from used machines... Never even heard if the brand systematic haha
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillI didn't figure you had.That's why I posted the link.You won't see this kind of performance from a Home Depot Lincoln:Power OutputOpen Circuit Voltage 18 - 33 volts DCArc Voltage 14 - 26 volts DCWeld Current Range 30 - 175 ampsDuty Cycle:60% @ 160 amps 40% @ 175 ampsGuessing that at the amperage the Lincoln is rated at 30%, the Systematics is rated near 100%.If a hobbyist welder is what you want the little Lincoln will be just fine, but if you don't want to weld 3 minutes, then wait 7 for the machine to cool down, you need more.Take a look at the manual for this thing, and see if the little machines can compare.It would already be mine, if I weren't in the middle of paying for my daughter's wedding
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelThat Lincoln is 30% @ 130A. The Systematics is probably a much better welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxEverything is coming out of my money and as the 180hd is around $850 dollars I have around another $1,000 to spend.. Would like to go new. Brands and suggestions of any type welcome...
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerRegardless of your budget numbers (which are very nice) I suggest a used Millermatic 210 set up with .035 wire and a tank of 75/25 argon co2 mix. Then I would find an older (50's - early 80's model) round top Lincoln Idealarc AC/DC 250. If you really need to TIG you can get a hi freq box for the Lincoln & do scratch start. Both machines with gas bottle, leads & TIG rig could be had for $1,000 or less. Nothing wrong with used welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxI'm pretty decided on a 180 lincoln electric mig for a wire machine... Looking for another with stick and tig capabilities. Read through here and pretty much figured out that 120v machines weren't worth the money... Rather would have two nice 230v machines that would be more versa tile for my applications (BBQ pits, hog traps etc) and just the daily bead practice as I am starting school soon... Everything is coming out of my money and as the 180hd is around $850 dollars I have around another $1,000 to spend.. Would like to go new. Brands and suggestions of any type welcome...
Reply:Currently looking at thermal arc 181i or 211i.... My mind is going crazy I can't even decide what to pick....
Reply:What's that saying about water and a horse? Whelp, I've said my piece - good luck with whatever you decide.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxCurrently looking at thermal arc 181i or 211i.... My mind is going crazy I can't even decide what to pick....
Reply:Choose wisely my son.
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxCurrently looking at thermal arc 181i or 211i.... My mind is going crazy I can't even decide what to pick....
Reply:Buy as big of a machine as you can afford, it will pay off down the road, also a second vote for putting a sub panel in instead of just running a circuit, as your needs will grow quickly. I took the long approach and ran a smal 230 cicuit, then installed a sub panel,  then built a  shop, and ran even more power. I went from a hobbyist  to self employed welding contractor. Lesson learned is to plan for as much welding power as you can afford.
Reply:Sorry I'm not trying to disrespect or anything it's just that I'm having a lot of information being fed to me at once and now I have a lot more to consider. I plan on chasing pipe in a couple of years but haven't even really had that much expierence welding... Hence why I am going to school for it and taking the advanced pipe courses. I have almost $4,000 to my name saved up and this guy I met not too long ago that pipelines said id be better off getting a sa-200 on a trailer and just throw it on my truck when I get it... So you can imagine haha. Every piece of I do I receive on here I take into consideration. I just don't want to make the mistake of buying a machine I won't be happy with. But like multiple people have said buying machines is a addiction
Reply:Originally Posted by HoustontxSorry I'm not trying to disrespect or anything it's just that I'm having a lot of information being fed to me at once and now I have a lot more to consider. I plan on chasing pipe in a couple of years but haven't even really had that much expierence welding... Hence why I am going to school for it and taking the advanced pipe courses. I have almost $4,000 to my name saved up and this guy I met not too long ago that pipelines said id be better off getting a sa-200 on a trailer and just throw it on my truck when I get it... So you can imagine haha. Every piece of I do I receive on here I take into consideration. I just don't want to make the mistake of buying a machine I won't be happy with. But like multiple people have said buying machines is a addiction
Reply:Originally Posted by Houstontxnow I have a lot more to consider. I plan on chasing pipe in a couple of years but haven't even really had that much expierence welding...
Reply:Dude, If your ultimate goal is to chase pipe, save your money and come down to the Labs and use our equipment. We already have the welders and all the rest of the tools (grinders, torches, work tables, vices, clamps, hammers, plasma cutters, sheet metal brakes, drill presses, etc.). Come, hang-out, practice, build your BBQ pits (or whatever you think you're going to make money with). Spend your money on consumables and material, the experience gained will be infinitely more valuable than any machine or machines.Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:It's definitely the real goal!! If I could explain the feeling I get inside just thinking about it I would gladly tell you. I'm the only one in my family currently that doesn't want to work an office job. I didn't want to go to college because I knew I wouldn't be able to give it my all... So it would be a waste of time. And then I discovered welding and fell in love. I'm sure any welder knows exactly what I'm talking about. There's just something about trying to get perfection and always having room to improve that draws me in