Miller Syncrowave 350 in disguise

admin

Hey Guys!Quick question for you guys...I've been looking  casually for a TIG machine for some personal projects.  A 200-250 amp machine would probably suit my needs just fine.  I've been eyeballing a Miller Syncrowave 250 for the longest time......but I came across an Acklands-Grainger AK-350 that is manufactured by Miller.  It is IDENTICAL in every way, except for the pretty blue box.  It was even confirmed by the VP of marketing that Miller was manufacturing units for AG.The seller has it listed for $800.  Frankly I don't think he's aware of what he is actually selling.  It looks like an early '90's Syncro350 but the case looks brand new.  It's being with the foot pedal only, no torch, regulator etc.  I have seen used Miller Syncrowave 350s being sold in the range of 2000-4000.Think this is a good deal?  Perhaps I could even sell it and make some money to put toward a smaller unit?
Reply:I'd make sure it works before I bought it. I'd be hesitant to buy a welding machine without seeing it run first. But, other than that, sounds like a good deal. I did a little research on google and found a picture showing an acklands ak-250 sitting next to a miller sync 250 and they sure looked identical.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Thanks for the reply.Well the worst part about running the machine is I don't yet know how to TIG.  The plan is to find a decent used machine and teach myself.  I am pretty decent at MIG but it has it's limitations and some of the projects I want to work on will have less than desirable results with MIG.This is a quote from the Miller welder forumsCliff, my name is Sandro Verrelli, VP Sales & Marketing with Acklands-Grainger. It's true, Miller did produce welding machines for us for many years... in a stunning "Acklands Orange" finish! As most of our machines were virtually identical to the 'Miller blue' models, it's likely that we'll be able to track down the service manual for you. We have some of our folks looking into this now and should have an answer for you shortly. We'll post our response in this forum or feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] so that we can get you what you need directly.Have a safe day!Sandro
Reply:Dammit....  photo doesn't resize.....
Reply:Fail.....You guys get the idea
Reply:Some blue paint, a miller sticker and you're in the money Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:So the plot thickens....I called the seller this evening and he said he picked up the unit at a government auction a few weeks ago.  He says it comes with the torch, foot pedal, and stand.  No regulator or ground clamp.  The unit was used at a local trade school which was simply upgrading their units.  I really don't think he knows what he's sitting on......  we're going to try and get together Wed evening to have a look at it.
Reply:Miller has made welders for AG for years, I have an AK-Mate 250 cv power source for one of my wire feeds.Leo
Reply:I was unaware.  I weld on a very limited basis and I have had a decent MIG machine for years so I had no reason to really keep up.But I would like to get into build some stuff out of stainless and aluminum and MIG is less than desireable...The only issue I have with this unit is that it is HUGE.  It's more than what I will probably ever need and from what I've seen in the used ads.....there doesn't seem to be much of a market for used AC/DC machines unless they're diesel for a welding rig.So I'm not sure I could make quite as much money as I originally expected if I decided to flip it and buy a 200-250 unit.
Reply:well if you flip it any thing you make puts you ahead....maybe trade it down?bobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder
Reply:Where is it? I will go buy it and flip it if you don't. No ****. I will buy it right now.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:How about I pick it up and I give you a good price Although the shipping to MO may be a bit pricey
Reply:Originally Posted by MmmBoostHow about I pick it up and I give you a good price Although the shipping to MO may be a bit pricey
Reply:I'm located in Canada, on the West coast.400 lbs?  haha....that was what I guessed it weighed at first too.Then I looked it up in the Miller manual
Reply:I will never buy or sell to/from Canada. The rates are TERRIBLE.Buy it for yourself and be done with it.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Canada Post / USPS isn't too bad.  As soon as you hit the couriers.....get out your wallet.I really think I'm going to pick this thing up tomorrow.  I've got the whole month of December off to learn and practice.....so it's a perfect time.  The unit has every feature I could need/want....it's just a little on the big side, but I'll shuffle some things around in the garage and make some space.The biggest add-on is going to be the bottle of Argon and the consumables.  I have everything else I need.
Reply:UPS is the worst shipper with their brokerage fees that can be different for the same item.Better to have more welder than you need than it be too small.Leo
Reply:Originally Posted by MmmBoostCanada Post / USPS isn't too bad.  As soon as you hit the couriers.....get out your wallet.I really think I'm going to pick this thing up tomorrow.  I've got the whole month of December off to learn and practice.....so it's a perfect time.  The unit has every feature I could need/want....it's just a little on the big side, but I'll shuffle some things around in the garage and make some space.The biggest add-on is going to be the bottle of Argon and the consumables.  I have everything else I need.
Reply:The cold air isn't affecting my ability to understand, I assure you.  Flat rate boxes are flat rate.....how could you possibly pay more than what the flat rate is?  Maybe this was a while ago and shipping was more expensive to Canada?I just had an entire flywheel and clutch assembly shipped to me in two separate flat rate boxes and shipping only came out to $70.......for BOTH.  If you need something in a hurry.....then yes....it gets very pricey very quickly.In any case I'm not going to try and defend shipping prices....I still think they're more expensive than they should be......but they aren't as bad as you seem to remember.I'll have to check to see what size breaker I have setup for my MIG....it's been so long I don't recall.
Reply:I'll stop beating the dead horse here, but Flat rate DOES not apply to the USPS boxes and weight. Here in the States we can put up to 75lbs in a Flat rate box for $12. Anything over 10 or 20lbs in the same box skyrockets in price to over $100 when you go past 40 or 50lbs!I've done it and that IS the way it is. What sucks is the fact that shipping fees have always exceeded the cost of the tools I was even selling!Anyway, back on track about the welder: You will need at least a 100amp breaker. As you get closer to maxing it out, I believe you will blow a 100amp breaker. Stay below 250amp most of the time and a 100amp breaker should be fine.Granthttp://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:For international I have found that USPS is cheaper than UPS or Fed Ex. Last box I sent only weighed 2lb but UPS wanted $90 Fed Ex was $130, USPS priority was $13. Box was delivered 3500mi away in 3 days
Reply:so I went to go check the machine out last night.  It's REALLY clean.  I was surprised as heck that it actually was that clean for being in a welding shop.  The only function that I can see that it's missing is pre-flow, but that isn't really all that much of a dealbreaker for me.  And since it's an older unit, the most you can get out of it for pulse is 0.25 to 10 pulses per second.it comes with a foot pedal, a watercooled torch, and the power cable.  The water cooled torch looks like it's pretty stripped down and missing a bunch of pieces.  There was no collet, no cap, I didn't see a gas lens.I'm not quite sure how the water cooling works as it plugged into the front of the machine.  I can't imagine that it's got an integrated watercooling system......  I don't know how to go about finding replacement parts for the torch or if I should just pick up a new aircooled torch and call it a day.  I have no need for watercooling because I will not being banging out the welds for HOURS at a time.can someone with some insight on the cooling chime in here....Also, here is the torch.  I tried to grab a photo of the name....but it didn't show up very well and I can't recal what the name was on it.
Reply:Looking at the size roughly I'd guess it's a 18 size torch. Some sort of reference like a ruler in the pict would help. The 18 series torch uses the same parts the 17 series air cooled torches do.If you pop open the panels and look inside you'll probably be able to tell real quick if it's got a tank and radiator or not. I can't remember what the WC connections on the older Syncrowaves at the tech school look like. They do have built in coolers and run the 18 series torches. My guess is yours probably has a built in cooler under the sheet metal. I'll try and remember to look next week..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The coolant connections go to a valve that turns on and off at the same time as the gas, it's for a total loss system. If you have a cooler they are not necessary. Looks like a water cooled torch to me, with all those leads coming out. You can't run that without water because it will melt the hose that the power lead runs through.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:There was a hose that looked like it had a faucet connection on it.However, digging through the manual I did find these options available....I'm going to go back and look at it again on Saturday.  I want to take the panels off and have a look inside to see what's in there and how clean it is.  That should tell me whether or no there's a cooling system in there.I think if all is good I'll go ahead and grab it....and by grab it I mean figure out how I'm going to get it home.  that bastard is a monsterThank you all for your advice and knowledge.  Going to check into the breaker in my garage to see what it's rated at before making any decisions.  For the time being all I plan to be welding is 16GA stainless exhaust tubing, possibly some sched 10 stainless pipe, and at the most 3/16" aluminum.I'm not sure whether this unit has a power factor correction installed or not.  I guess I won't know until I get it opened up.
Reply:Here is a copy of the serial plate.
Reply:The big breaker is why I went with the dynasty 350. About the water cooler- Ive worked in a couple of shops that run a garden hose to the machine and a hose out of the wall or to a drain and just run tap water through the torch. You will want some sort of coolant. air cooled torches suck (except for walking the cup on pipe) and heat up quick.
Reply:I've been doing a lot of headscratching over this unit with regard to it's power requirements.....and frankly I think it's going to be a lot more trouble than it's worth.  I've got 60amps to work with and I'm not interested in calling an electrician to see what magic he can work to make this unit work.I would still considering buying this unit and flipping it if it didn't weigh 700 lbs with my having no real way of picking it up or delivering it.  The owner was going to drop it off at my place with his trailer and bobcat and I was going to use an engine hoist to move it until I got a rolling cart sorted out for it, but that plan has now fallen through.I'm starting to think that it may be for the best...I've started looking into a 200amp Everlast unit as they seem to be getting pretty good reviews and it would be about all I could see myself needing for the near.......or far future for that matter.
Reply:I run my sync 300 on a 50 amp circuit and only run into trouble on Al 1/4" plus. Remember the reason it calls for that much power, it's not that the machine is inefficient, it's just that powerful on the top end.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749You're on yer own as far as buying one of those machines goes.Not gonna turn this thread into another ChiCom bash fest.My opinions of those machines are already very well known Good luck whatever way you decide to go.
Reply:I think you are gonna lose out here if you let this one go. At the VERY least, buy it to re-sell! You could EASILY make a quick $600-700 without blinking. Buy it and put it on ebay. You could be much closer to a machine you really want if you bought this with the intent to sell or trade.You could even buy this and ask someone to trade you their Synchrowave 180, 200, 250 and they would be pleased as freakin' punch.Consider your options but if it were me, it is already in my shop.Granthttp://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:I would gladly trade you my Miller 150 STH, completely set up for TIG or Stick, foot pedal, flowmeter, WP-9 Torch, etc., if we could work out shipping........I'm in Ohio.....JohnJohnMiller 320 A/BPMiller Auto Arc 50Miller 150 STHLincoln SP-200Hobart "Mainliner" GeneratorPlasmaFix 50S Plasma WelderThermal Arc Pak 3XR Plasma Cutter
Reply:Value is what you get out of something for what you put into it.  Ask yourself "was it worth it?"You are speaking of resale value.  You only lose money on something if you sell it for far less than you pay for it or if you have to replace it.When I buy a $6 Chinese wrench that I need to heat and bend to get at a stubborn bolt.....but only need it for that one bolt......and it works.....and continues to be able to get at that bolt the once a year that I have to undo it and put it back in......than I feel like I got value for my dollar.The rest of my tools which I use VERY frequently and to the limits of their capacity I do not skimp on because I know I will regret it when either the tool fails to be able to do the job....it wears out......or it breaks and I end up smashing my knuckles in the process.  I have no qualms about spending $100 on a set of ratcheting wrenches because I use them ALL the time....and I know they will always work.  If they don't...they are guaranteed for life and I can replace them.A TIG is something that is so specialized and something that I would use so infrequently it is very hard to justify spending so much one, when the cheaper ones seem to perform at or near the same level.  If i were using it day in and day out and expecting parts to wear out.....I would not even think of buying a cheaper one.  but I probably won't even use this machine as much in 5 years as some of you guys would use yours in 3 months....so fatigue and wear are almost a non-issue.I probably will still buy this welder and see if I can hook it up and use it for the immediate project I have.  If I can't, then at least I can sell it for what I paid for it.  Looking in the used market though.....$800 is about what these big old beasts are going for which is really sad and surprising.  Granted they are not Syncrowaves.....but still.....  300 and 400 amp millers going for $800.....yet there are 3 Syncro 180's for sale for 1600-1800 right now.I guess large welders aren't really in high demand around here.  See for yourselves....http://alberta.kijiji.ca/f-TIG-buy-a...0QQKeywordZTIGLast edited by MmmBoost; 12-09-2011 at 12:41 PM.
Reply:I just got off the phone with a welding supply shop here in town that deals with parts/service, as well as selling new and used machines.  The said they just sold a Miller SW 350 for 1800 last week.......but they sat on that machine for 4 years.They said a machine that size that is single phase only is a very hard sell since the required input amps on 220V single phase power are VERY high.  So buying this machine to flip it does not seem like it's such a good idea after all.  They also mentioned I would probably have a hard time welding aluminum of any reasonable thickness because of my 60-amp breaker.
Reply:Man, you already made up your mind before you ever came here with the question. Seems like a waste of everyone's time IMO. I could be wrong but it certainly appears that way.I do understand you may have had some intitial giddiness over the proposition of a nice Miller, but then the idea of making some changes in your electrical changed your mind.I would almost put money that the welding shop you mentioned everything to found out where it was and bought it. Someone is making a killing here.You could buy this machine and trade anyone on the kijiji sites for their Synchro 180 and be $800 ahead.I hate to say that you are not thinking clearly, but WHO in their right mind would even consider a foreign made machine with no support when you have an obvious option like this!Understand, when I mention support, I mean being able to take your machine to a local welding supplier and have a simple problem fixed. If it is foreign, you can get it fixed, but what you fail to understand is you have to ship it off (on YOUR dime) and hope they properly diagnose the problem. You really need to think about this long and hard. You simply cannot go wrong with this machine for this CHEAP price. Buy it, sell it, and then buy a machine than can be serviced at any local shop. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!GrantLast edited by jackalope; 12-09-2011 at 10:13 PM.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:I came in here with EVERY intention of buying this machine.  So don't tell me that I'm wasting anyones time.  If you feel like I'm wasting your time then you have every right to not bother replying.  It was only after doing quite a bit of research that I started doubting whether this machine would be a good buy for me......whether I keep it or not.Being able to flip this machine depends on ONE thing and one thing alone.......demand.  Is there a demand for this machine?  A very well-known welding shop that had a model very similar to this sitting in their showroom for FOUR years before it sold for their asking price.  If there was a high demand for such high-amp single phase machines I can't see how that machine would have possibly lasted that long.  And it was a TRUE Miller.I have been doing my homework on this unit for 2 weeks now.  The last thing I need/want is to have my money tied up in a machine that won't work in my garage and then not being able to resell it.  Moving it is another problem.....it weighs 700 lbs....I sincerely doubt the shop found the welder and bought it.  When the guy asked me what the owner wanted for it I told him $2200.  I was vague on details for a good reason.  I know this unit is CHEAP but it's also at the far end of the scale for what people would ever need which makes it harder to sell.
Reply:Originally Posted by MmmBoost.... I know this unit is CHEAP but it's also at the far end of the scale for what people would ever need which makes it harder to sell.
Reply:It's funny....every time someone on this site mentions a non-american machine, everyone just gets all bent out of shape.I'm really sorry you feel that way, but for hobbyists who do not have thousands of dollars to throw around....they are a viable option....which is probably the majority of who their target market isI'm not trying to piss anyone off and I value your opinions which is why I came on here to ask in the first place.  I appreciate everyones advice and input but the second I even mentioned a non-miller/lincoln the conversation went downhill.  It's like I insulted you guys to think that I would even consider going that route.
Reply:Just another comment.......used welders up here are nowhere near as cheap as what you guys can get them for.You're talking about used syncrowaves for 800-1000........well there are two for sale in the classifieds in my area for 1600-1800.  They just do not lose their value......and 1800 is more than what I want to spend.
Reply:Well I just called the guy and told him I was going to take it........and he decided that he's going to keep it.  Comedy......so I guess the search continues
Reply:Originally Posted by MmmBoostJust another comment.......used welders up here are nowhere near as cheap as what you guys can get them for.You're talking about used syncrowaves for 800-1000........well there are two for sale in the classifieds in my area for 1600-1800.  They just do not lose their value......and 1800 is more than what I want to spend.
Reply:he is was asking 800.  I was saying 1800 for used Syncro 180'sThe guy was saying he just put 400 worth of parts into the machine......which i think is bull**** because all it was missing were a few pieces on the torch totaling less than $20.  so i think he was waiting for me to offer more money.  I have no idea......but the guy was being a dick about things.
Reply:Well just an update.  I have made a deal on a pretty much brand new Syncrowave 180SD.  The guy bought the machine brand new for 2250.....then got married...priorities changed and it has sat in his uncles garage for 5 or 6 years untouched.  Comes with a few tungstens, a LOT of AL filler rod and a nearly full bottle of Argon.  I'll be picking it up tomorrow the only thing it's missing is pulse....but it isn't a "Need" so much as a "want"For my current project it will be more than enough machine and like all of you were saying.....if I do decide to move up or move on, I'll have no problem getting my money out of this machine.