Frame Mods (Near and dear to all)

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Hot day, and I don't have any must do crap to do.I'm gonna have to do some surgery on the new International to make it into a dump truck, and I've been stumbling around the "net" looking for some good articles.http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/dist...-modificationshttp://trailer-bodybuilders.com/arch...s-truck-framesI got more stuff, but I'm holding it in reserve for when I gotta beat off the nay sayers once this thing commences. Thought this might stimulate some of our brighter minds to do a little looking on their own.  Some of this stuff makes for excellent reading."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I always use the taper technique when I stretch one out.
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Reply:Sorry the pics arent better but I just snapped them to show a buddy had no intentions of posting online.Ross
Reply:I guess I better clarify a few things, first this was the first time I've ever stretched one like this it was how the customer wanted it done. I prefer and have always pulled all lines, suspensions, rear ends ect. And cut frame in one spot and run new frame all the way to the back so as to only have one spliced point. But due to the budget and the fact that all I did was cut/add frame in the customers shop it had to be done this way. Hope this gives a little exp.Thanks Ross
Reply:It's days like today that I love my job I work for an oilfield equipment OEM and we have a truck mounted piece of equipment that takes a class 8 chassis with a 310"wb, double frame, 20k front axle, and 46k tandems . . . bare bones day cab with deep reduction 10 speed.Someone agreed to take a customer supplied truck for a "slightly modified" version of this unit and the truck showed up Monday . . . . 344"wb, 14.6k front, two 12k pusher axles, 46k tandems, 3' sleeper, tractor package for a pintle hitch on the rear, and 18 speed trans.  The second pusher axle pretty much killed all the room I had to work with for plumbing and small pumps.  A 20k front (lose the second pusher) and ~373"wb would have been perfect and required far less redesign time.The best part . . . . the truck used to be a single frame road tractor (with 1 pusher axle) that either our customer or their dealer had stretched and added the second pusher axle.  Because it was a road tractor with fifth wheel, there was no after-frame to utilize for a wheelbase stretch, so there's a very obvious splice between the front and tandems (they did sleeve it, but not full length) and another splice after the tandems (not a big deal)  It's going to be an adventure! MikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:a oldtimer I used hang out with had a kenworth  that was a bobtail and he wanted a 10 wheeler for logging he had some guy out of california come up and do a frame rail replacement. that guy was incredible he had jacks under all the components, slid the rails out of there slicker than anything I had ever seen. he had a rolling drill press and jig that he transferred all the holes over to the new frame and then reinstalled the rails. did one rail at a time. he had 3 days from the day he pulled to the day he left. all that needed done was lines, wiring, drivelines stuff like that it was incredible to watch.Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Reply:I thought/found the articles farmersamm posted as educational, enlightening and interesting!Thanks!
Reply:Sam let's get this out of the way. When you cut the frame with your harbor freight grinder and weld it with your 110 mig your going to kill a bus load of nuns bringing orphans to rescue abandoned puppies.  looking forward to the build, I'm sure it will be amazing work as always brother
Reply:I don't have any pics of the frame work, but here are some pics of 2 of the trucks I've done. The large truck with the implement bed was a schwan's truck that I stretched and made the bed for. It was for the local tractor salvage yard. I did 2 of those for them. They did the painting so these were taken after I loaded my welding truck so I could get home after delivering it.I stretched my F-250 as well so the welding bed would fit better. Built the steel one you see on the big truck first, but didn't like it much so re-did it in aluminum later.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I thought samm said he was going to shorten his new international.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:He did but I get the feeling he may chop a section out of the frame instead of just sliding the suspension forward, drill new holes and chop it off behind.  It's been awhile but that's how I do it.  Relocation or removal of an x-member may be in order and of course a proper driveline mod to finish off.  I keep x-member centers at 48" (max) or less apart.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Here's one for the Ford enthusiasts  FORDhttps://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q18.pdfYou'll notice that Ford doesn't recommend the "Z" splice, or the "step" splice.  A simple straight vertical cut is just fine.Also note that the frame data states that the frames on the listed vehicles are 36,000psi steel.  I would imagine it's the reason that welding the reinforcements is allowed.  Higher psi frames generally require bolted reinforcements as they are heat treated higher tensile steel.Last edited by farmersamm; 08-21-2014 at 09:33 AM."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55He did but I get the feeling he may chop a section out of the frame instead of just sliding the suspension forward, drill new holes and chop it off behind.  It's been awhile but that's how I do it.  Relocation or removal of an x-member may be in order and of course a proper driveline mod to finish off.  I keep x-member centers at 48" (max) or less apart.
Reply:THE MILITARY HAS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON FRAMEShttp://brochures.slosh.com/cucv/tb9-2300-247-40.pdfInteresting that only the military manual requires stress relief in the weld area with applied, constant, heat.  This requirement pertains to heat treated frames I believe (might have read the wrong heading for different type of vehicle).  ALSO........I believe the required temp is a misprint, it should be in the 1100 degree range, drop the first number in the print would be my guess.I've come across other manufacturer literature that requires mechanical stress relief through peening after the weld is made.  It's a different approach to the same problem.  As you can see, the required techniques vary, but are quite similar.  Welding on heat treated frames is discouraged, but allowed, only with very strict guidelines.Last edited by farmersamm; 08-21-2014 at 10:02 AM."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:rechecked......yup, it is the M939 with heat treated frame that must be stress relieved"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammTHE MILITARY HAS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON FRAMEShttp://brochures.slosh.com/cucv/tb9-2300-247-40.pdfInteresting that only the military manual requires stress relief in the weld area with applied, constant, heat.  This requirement pertains to heat treated frames I believe (might have read the wrong heading for different type of vehicle).  ALSO........I believe the required temp is a misprint, it should be in the 1100 degree range, drop the first number in the print would be my guess.I've come across other manufacturer literature that requires mechanical stress relief through peening after the weld is made.  It's a different approach to the same problem.  As you can see, the required techniques vary, but are quite similar.  Welding on heat treated frames is discouraged, but allowed, only with very strict guidelines.
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956I noticed on page 35, paragraph e,  where it called for a 11250 F. stress relief temperature.   I'm pretty sure that's a misprint.   1250 F. sounds more like it to me.For all this talk of "heat treated frame rail" I've yet to see any specific material designation.   Any one have any idea what specific material they're making these heat treated frame rails out of?
Reply:Now I gotta start my work day"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt's a tossup Duane.  I didn't see some bolt holes in the frame (where the axle needs to be reattached) when I bought the truck.  This was my fault for not going over the frame with a fine tooth comb, and a tape measure, before handing over the cash.  I'm living with the mistake now.
Reply:OK.  Just went to your other thread and looked at the area of concern.Still not sure I'd be too concerned.  Do they look like they are left over from a previous "life" or possibly original for other optional configurations?How far forward does that outer liner go?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Another installment, closer to the stuff that matters.http://www.peterbilt.com/resources/P...r%20Manual.pdfJust dribbling this crap out by the small bits, hoping it is good reading.  Lot of it is contrary to the interweb experts, but it is what it is.Soon as the last cutting is in I'm free to start doing some work on the stuff piled up here.  Getting a little antsy I guessThought it was ok to stay up a bit late, but was seriously informed that my butt belongs in bed...........geez!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:last cutting............hay"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/