Anyone have experience with cable railings?

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I attached a picture of the general idea of what I'm talking about. This picture is very similar to what I will be doing. I have a customer who is looking for a brushed stainless railing with the cable in the middle. Only problem is she doesn't like the "texture" of the cable. She wants smooth, bar. My experience with bar is that it's impossible to tension it completely and get it looking straight. The railing only spans 109", there will be two vertical posts on the ends, and one in the middle, just like in the picture. But still, over 4.5', 1/8" bar will sag a lot. Any advice on this one? John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:Does it have to be 1/8 diameter. Change the intermediate support to flatbar and add two at equal space.
Reply:I could probably go up to 1/4", but she wants the cable to be very small. Basically she wants the railing to comply to code, but use as little space as possible. Personally, I think cable blends in really nicely with brushed stainless. I'm going to send her a sample of the stainless and cable and hopefully she likes it too, but if not, I need an alternative to offer her. I had an instance a while back where I made a shelving unit for someone, designed to store DVD's and CD's. Pretty similar story, he wanted the shelves to take up as little space as possible, so I used 1/8" x 1" flat bar (Looking at the unit, the shelves were 1/8" thick, 1" deep), and they sagged like crazy over just 48". Something like 1/2" to 3/4" sag. That one was just a nightmare and I want to avoid the same issues.John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:She does not have a clue- to her it is a minor texture difference- is she prepared to pay what it will cost? Do you have other work if you lose this job?  Customers can drive the cost through the roof with no idea of what their "minor" changes entail from a construction and design standpoint.  I suggest if you do try this , make the rods removable so when they are bent they can be replaced.  You gotta bet some kid is going to use them as a ladder....
Reply:I can sketch something up later if explanation doesn't make sense, but can you run a threading die over the end of the bar and remove sag by tightening a nut? I would thread just the tip and bring it to the install site. Then tighten it up and see if it sags and remove rod and lengthen threads threads as necessary to get it tight. Threads should be hidden inside post. It would be a bit of an iterative pain. When you have it tightened enough it doesn't sag, cut the excess thread off extending beyond the nut and bond a decorative stainless cap to cover up the nut.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Reply:Im talking out of my *** here, but tension them like bicycle wheel spokes.  I believe that would be similar to what mahlmann01 is suggesting.Bike's use spoke nippleshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoke_nippleBut a washer and nut for tension would work for what you are trying to accomplish.
Reply:Sag is a function is weight not girth.  Thus tubing would sag less.  However , distortion from leaning is another issue.  When tensioning wire cable or rope,  there is an optimal tension. More tension does not remove sag.  Too much tension distorts post.  Magnify the tension by 7-9 cables and you will bananas for posts.  You will be amazed at how much tension 1/4 turn will provide.  Bicycle spoke threads are rolled not cut.  And tension concept is significantly different
Reply:Why not thread one, or both ends, and put a nut on them and tighten. Then weld the inside, cut off the nut and weld the outside.
Reply:You can use the same fittings for use on cable with the solid rod, and apply them in the same fashion. Just remember to roughen up the surface of the rod that go inside the fittings, so they get a good grip when you crimp them.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:For a clean look, thread the ends of the bars and put the nuts INSIDE the end tubes. Plastic caps that match the finish to hide access to the nuts.Really far out idea; Thread 1 end left handed. Weld the nuts to the verticals. Tighten like a turnbuckle.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:I'm thinking that 1/8" cable is way stronger than 1/8" roundbar, so....the roundbar probably isn't even up to code.Also, one little bump, and the roundbar is going to kink or deform, and look like crap.Rich
Reply:If you are making this up as a guard rail like in the picture most inspectors wont sign off on that style do to the ladder effect.  I have  a job that I posted on the site that showes top landing guard setup with horizontal .875 stainless tubing. I set it up so that I could intall saftey glass so children could not climb up on the guard rail and so it would pass the inspection. The glass is removable my client had no small children so they did not want to leave the glass up. When I first meet with my client they were interested having a cable rail I convinced them to go with the tubing it has a cleaner look. If your client is looking for a thinner look you could use .4375 soild stainless round rod this size will support its self. If you decide to use the round rod you don't want to weld it in drill .4375 holes in your post on the inside not all the way through push the rod in then leave it alone.
Reply:Originally Posted by DGMIf you are making this up as a guard rail like in the picture most inspectors wont sign off on that style do to the ladder effect.  I have  a job that I posted on the site that showes top landing guard setup with horizontal .875 stainless tubing. I set it up so that I could intall saftey glass so children could not climb up on the guard rail and so it would pass the inspection. The glass is removable my client had no small children so they did not want to leave the glass up. When I first meet with my client they were interested having a cable rail I convinced them to go with the tubing it has a cleaner look. If your client is looking for a thinner look you could use .4375 soild stainless round rod this size will support its self. If you decide to use the round rod you don't want to weld it in drill .4375 holes in your post on the inside not all the way through push the rod in then leave it alone.
Reply:No code issues here. I've built several.
Reply:Residential is a different game a lot of times it is up to the local inspector to decide. The last project I did the inspector wanted all the guards at 42 inches. I have built rails with the infills horizontal but I always go over everything with my client especially if there are children. From my experience sometimes what the client wants is not the best way to do the project. Railings are made for safety and it is up to the fabricator to be responsible we all know most jobs like this there are no permits.
Reply:Use tubing with cable threaded thru it. You might have to come up with an oversized nut for the end connection.Mike
Reply:@ Econdron - check out the SS railing component options and swaged fittings available from the Ultra-Tec (NV)."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi