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From the article: "Affected owners are being notified to take their cars back to the dealership for inspection to see if all necessary welds are in place. If they are not, industry sources tell us, Nissan is replacing at least some of the vehicles free."http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...ntcmp=featuresI'm curious if it was people or robots that were taking a break?Mr. HE
Reply:Why would anyone want a battery operated car anyway? Gutless wonders. "Leaf" it right where you found it.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWhy would anyone want a battery operated car anyway? Gutless wonders. "Leaf" it right where you found it.
Reply:They're doing the right thing. Gotta give them some kudos for that.
Reply:Must be a significant amount of missing welds to scrap the vehicles rather than repairTiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawMust be a significant amount of missing welds to scrap the vehicles rather than repair
Reply:Originally Posted by hddnisFrom the article: "Affected owners are being notified to take their cars back to the dealership for inspection to see if all necessary welds are in place. If they are not, industry sources tell us, Nissan is replacing at least some of the vehicles free."http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...ntcmp=featuresI'm curious if it was people or robots that were taking a break?Mr. HE
Reply:Originally Posted by hddnisI'm curious if it was people or robots that were taking a break?
Reply:Originally Posted by copeI suspect it was robots.
Reply:I agree that Nissan is doing the right thing. I've owned Nissan vehicles in the past and was impressed by them. I'd love to see pictures of the areas that should be welded, just curious, but so far I've not found anything on the web.Mr. HE
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWhy would anyone want a battery operated car anyway? Gutless wonders. "Leaf" it right where you found it.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverTell us more about your 9 liter v8 daily driver from the 70's that gets 6mpg, makes 260hp, and weighs 5000 pounds.You've never driven a leaf, and you must live under a rock because a battery powered Tesla model S makes more power and low end torque than my Z06 Corvette...
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedOh wait . . . the Model S weighs 4785 pounds . . . 1500 pounds more than your Corvette
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverAnd yet it accelerates almost exactly as fast... hmmmYou're not actually going to back a claim that just because it's a battery car automatically means it a gutless wonder... are you? (which is the point here in case you're unaware, not the practicality or range... but BTW the tesla supercharger stations can recharge at the rate of 340miles in an hour)4.2 seconds 0-60mph? gutless? lmao... you'd need an over 500hp gas v8 to do that in a car that heavy. Sounds like a more accurate assessment would be battery powered cars can also be torque monsters. omgbbq!1 it's like the same power/performance span that gas motors fall into! absolutely gutless all the way up to not.... maybe it's not a trait solely of electric cars after all
Reply:Tesla, probably not the best for transcontinental races lol, I will give you that... unless....you had a 90 second battery swap ready at every waypoint in which case you'd get absolutely smoked.This has gotten way off topic at this point though; all I'm saying is labeling all battery powered cars as 'gutless' is as nonsensical as saying all gas cars are.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWhy would anyone want a battery operated car anyway?
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manYou're always so negative. It just so happens that my daughter has a battery operated Barbie Jeep, and my little guy has a battery operated John Deere dumping Gator. And they LOVE their battery operated vehicles!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manYou're always so negative. It just so happens that my daughter has a battery operated Barbie Jeep, and my little guy has a battery operated John Deere dumping Gator. And they LOVE their battery operated vehicles!!!
Reply:I would imagine plenty of people are intimidated by the rise in electric cars since battery technology has improved the small amount necessary in the past decades to elevate EV's from a cult technology to something usable. I remember people bragging about being able to get a 20 mile range and even hitting 50mph! Electric drag racers can do impressive quarter miles but unless fuel cells can be made practical don't expect any endurance races. Don't forget with any conventional internal combustion engine or gas turbine, you're only carrying a fraction of the required fuel to create distance betweens points. The rest is provided by the oxygen in the air we all breathe. Submarine builders were forced to use batteries because they were the only sensible alternative to monopropellants and liquid oxygen tanks that had been experimented with. Even with the most slippery shapes derived from fish, the lead acid battery banks, which weighed tons had pathetic range. Just like a submarine, an electric car is a closed system during normal use. Which is why they would benefit cities that have awful smog problems most. Still options like propane and natural gas make more sense in the long run. No matter how much money you save skipping the pumps, you will lose it all and more when it comes time to change the battery pack, even if it lasts a little longer than anticipated. Older hybrids are now reaching the point where replacing the battery pack is equal or more than the value of the car. Still compared to earlier electric cars, which were barely a step up from golf carts, modern examples like the Leaf and Tesla are leaps and bounds ahead.My guess as to the welds is that they were already operating with a razor thin safety margin for the welds and frame. So that they could maximize battery capacity without sacrificing range. It could have been either an engineering mistake or a manufacturing error. The article does not state it.One thing that is for certain is that the days of the car as we know it are numbered. I remember when the same attitudes of defensive remarks and skepticism surrounded digital photography, with most photographers dismissing the new technology as a fad and toys for those not serious about the art. Now try buying film anywhere or getting it developed. There will come a time where it will be just as much of a pain if not more to fill up your gas tank as it is to get welding gases.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverTell us more about your 9 liter v8 daily driver from the 70's that gets 6mpg, makes 260hp, and weighs 5000pounds.You've never driven a leaf, and you must live under a rock because a battery powered Tesla model S makes more power and low end torque than my Z06 Corvette...
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverTell us more about your 9 liter v8 daily driver from the 70's that gets 6mpg, makes 260hp, and weighs 5000pounds.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcJus simma dow now!
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverlol oh boy... I mistook your opinion for someone who was somewhat educated in the matter and might have something interesting to say.You're that guy who is like "so and so or whatever sucks" and then when someone strikes up a discussion it becomes very obvious that you've quickly met your limit of understanding on the subjectMy purpose here was to educate you because it's pretty apparent you don't understand the whole issue, but you seem to be the kind of guy who's just stubborn about that kind of thing, which is fine, to each their own. If you must you can continue to hide behind your manly truck and just make silly backwoods comments now that you realize you can't add anything to the conversation.You see electric cars as something that is being imposed on the people by the liberals in order to save the planet. lol thats cute... I don't give a flying f about the planet, I see it as a technology that has benefits over what is available today, and I'm not daft so I realize lack of performance and cost are only issues now because it's still in it's infancy. Early gas engines were beyond pathetic by today's standards. The fact that electric can even hang with gas (which is pretty tapped out at this point) should tell you something.I don't have a leaf, you're the one who fixated on that car for some reason... comparing it to your work truck is of course completely ridiculous, at least compare something similar. The cost is high for now (as is the case with all new tech) but here's an electrically propelled hybrid truck that would actually suit you very well http://www.viamotors.com/ you can even run your welder from the truck. They even made a lifted 800hp version which would be perfect for your daily driver! lol I'm interested in what a person like you thinks about these trucks, if you can respond like an grown up.
Reply:You guys forget that not everyone in the world pays as little as you do for gas in the US.
Reply:True, but the rest of the world always fails to realize how big America is also.Electric cars have their place, but electrical storage will pretty much always be less efficient than chemical energy, same as chemical is less efficient than nuclear. If we were smart, we'd have nuke plants out in the boonies, running power to e85/ethanol/methanol plants turning garbage into cellulosic alky and then using said fuel to power vehicles. That would be "win" all around, alky is less energy dense than gas or diesel, but you can design much more power dense engines for alky(turbo engines at 12:1 compression are possible on methanol, 10:1 and 10-15lbs boost is easy on E85), so it's a wash IMO. S/F.....Ken MI am not saying that electrical is the way to go at the moment.However US cars until now had typically high gas consumption with their high capacity low tech engines. Fortunately newer cars are much more efficient without sacrificing horsepower.Having cheap gas does not mean you have to waste it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcMike, honestly I only read your first sentence above and didn't bother reading any further. Your electric toy car cheerleading babble is rather boring and I just don't care. Sorry, but I've moved on to threads that interest me.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcYou can have your girly "metro" Leaf car with your latte and I'll stick with my 2014 1-ton, V8 Diesel, 4x4, oil-burning, smog producing, ice berg melting, global warming, dually crew cab, COMMUTER, utility, transport, load-hauling, long distance, do everything, capable, beast-of-a-TRUCK.
Reply:Just imagine this beautiful world if we could charge our electric cars by solar panels on our rooftops and commute emissionless and it wouldn't cost us a dime.... there's going to be a very big hole in the government's funding. So I guess they'll think of something else to get that even, like tax on sunshine, windforce or every square m of solar panels.
Reply:Originally Posted by ElGuapoJust imagine this beautiful world if we could charge our electric cars by solar panels on our rooftops and commute emissionless and it wouldn't cost us a dime.... there's going to be a very big hole in the government's funding. So I guess they'll think of something else to get that even, like tax on sunshine, windforce or every square m of solar panels.
Reply:Originally Posted by ElGuapoJust imagine this beautiful world if we could charge our electric cars by solar panels on our rooftops and commute emissionless and it wouldn't cost us a dime.... there's going to be a very big hole in the government's funding. So I guess they'll think of something else to get that even, like tax on sunshine, windforce or every square m of solar panels.
Reply:They have electric motorcycles, not sure how good they are but they exist.There was a story of a person in GA who was arrested for stealing electricity to charge their car. They were at their child's high school for after school activities and plugged it in. Police discovered the heinous crime and arrested the parent for what amounted as about 5 cents worth of electricity theft. What a joke....http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...ic_car_in.html
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWhoooooa, easy there cowboy, this ain't my first campfire. Jus simma dow now! Where'd that 'tude just crawl out from? I just gave an opinion about a car, not anyone that drives one. (But since you opened it, now I will ). I didn't mean to make fun of your cute l'il "Leaf" mobile. (What color is it though?). My daughters do think they're cute cars however, because Grandma just bought one. I still opine that current electric "CARS" suck b@lls. But to each her own. People say, "ohhh an electric car is great for around the city." What do you do when one must go "beyond" the city, with no charging station conveniently close by, ride a bus? Take a taxi? Take public transportation with all the other chumps? Yeah right!!! Good luck with that because I don't think so. What does the average poor bastard do that can only afford ONE car in the household yet needs to commute further than the next electric charging station within "the city?" What does the guy do when he wants to go "outa town?" How about visiting a distant relative, is there going to be a charging station along the way? Can he even go the distance to a charging station? An electric car just has so many PITA limitations associated with ownership. I look at it like really being an anchor tied to your @zz and definitely a hardship for someone than can only afford ONE single car. I still say the Leaf's are pieces of Sh.. Those electric "earth-first" gimmicks are useless as practical, do-all, family "utility" vehicles. I want a car that can be able to transport 4 of necessary, whenever and wherever I go. I want to be able to travel cross-country if I have to, knowing I'll always find a gas station nearby, next to every hiway and not have to literally stress about finding a charging station. How long does it take to charge an electric vehicle by the way? "...Ain't got time for dat!!!" Teslas don't impress me neither. The current Tesla "experiment" reminds me of John Delorean's failed attempt at a Volvo 4-banger engine in front of two seats, housed within a stainless shell.You can have your girly "metro" Leaf car with your latte and I'll stick with my 2014 1-ton, V8 Diesel, 4x4, oil-burning, smog producing, ice berg melting, global warming, dually crew cab, COMMUTER, utility, transport, load-hauling, long distance, do everything, capable, beast-of-a-TRUCK.
Reply:Originally Posted by atgOk so what. Well, right now you can lease a new chevy volt for $200/mo. I would never have to gas it up, so I can either drive a 25 year old car for two grand a year, or a brand new one for $2400 a year.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedGreat! So it's okay with you that the rest of us subsidize your driving.Why? The system is no more energy efficient than a current internal combustion engine. It does not reduce hydrocarbon emissions or CO2, the source is just moved to a different place. The vehicle costs more to build . . . and the pollution from the manufacture of an electric vehicle greatly exceeds that of the current generation of cars with internal combustion engines. If you compare peak HP ratings, you're correct. However for a similar price, the 911 Carrera is slightly quicker 0-60, 1/4 mile and has a 50 mph advantage on the top end. If that were true, the electrics would be more popular. The only reason they sell at all is because they're subsidized by the rest of us. The market will tell you which vehicle is best for the American driving public. BTW, where are you going to get enough of the raw materials to build the batteries and the rare earth elements to make the magnets for the motors for all those cars?
Reply:i still like the idea of gas-diesel electric with battery pack looks like the best of both worlds to this old man. constant rpm gen, torgue of electric motor, extended range capable.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedBTW, where are you going to get enough of the raw materials to build the batteries and the rare earth elements to make the magnets for the motors for all those cars?
Reply:Originally Posted by jugheadi still like the idea of gas-diesel electric with battery pack looks like the best of both worlds to this old man. constant rpm gen, torgue of electric motor, extended range capable.
Reply:So what happened to those buses?
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedWhy? The system is no more energy efficient than a current internal combustion engine. It does not reduce hydrocarbon emissions or CO2, the source is just moved to a different place.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverThis is a really common misconception because most people don't understand the inefficiencies of the systems. Even worst case coal fired power plant is still more energy efficient, and a real world average of the different types of power stations in use give probably 2 or 3 times greater energy efficiency... and clean sources, which are part of the grid, (like solar, hydro, geothermal, etc) give infinitely better, and also don't produce hydrocarbon emissions or c02.Power generating stations are very highly optimized for efficiently turning their fuel into electricity because that equals enormous amounts of money saved by the company running the plant. Almost any car is not... not even close. On average cars waste around 80% of the energy from the gas out the tail pipe and radiator a heat. Most production electric vehicle motors are around 90-98% efficient too.So it would be like removing more than half of the cars on the road, overall halving the amount of gasoline used. That sounds like a pretty darn big difference to me.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfed A power plant can do no better than 30%.
Reply:Originally Posted by atgSo what happened to those buses?
Reply:Interesting. Thanks.FedEx has an all electric delivery truck running around marina del rey.Flywheel energy recovery apparently works well but is still expensive. Lemans cars using it, audi prototypes. The porsche has capacitors i think. Audi won again iirc.All that electric car efficiency stuff is available from wikipedia or the federal government. Coal fired electricity gets you the c02 equivalent of 33mpg. There is a fair amount of natural gas though so national avg is about 50 mpg. If you live on the west coast there is enough alternative source electricity to get it up near 140mpg. Or infinite if you put the solar panels on your house.There are significant health benefits to getting all that point source air pollution out of the city away from so many people. Less childhood asthma for instance. Not an insignificant benefit for the populations of large metro areas with poor air quality.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawMust be a significant amount of missing welds to scrap the vehicles rather than repair |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:22:22