Overhead Problems! Please Help!!

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I've recently started building sound walls for a national construction company. I've never done any welding on this scale at all. There is no one else welding, just me. We have all of these giant columns that need plates welded into them that hold up 15-20 ton concrete walls. All faying surfaces are welded with 3 passes. Basically, I'm laying upside down in a hole in the ground to weld the bottoms. The columns are galvanized, the plates are not. I make 100% sure to grind off all the zinc. All the welds look pretty good except the overhead welds on the flanges. The one across the webbing lays right in. The ones on the flanges just kind of ball up and fall out, leaving craters in between the balls. I can't figure out why! I've adjusted my heat, I've changed body positions, tried welding in both directions. It looks like the arc is just burning away the plate, and not depositing any weld, or even touching the column really.I'm at a total loss. Honestly I don't have a ton ov experience with overhead, but i basically run it like an upside down flat weld. My only thoughts are 1) maybe too much of a gap? (1/16th maybe at most) 2) The flange is a different thickness than the webbing and I need to burn in to the flange first before I make the fillet weld or adjust m. 3) maybe a tiny, microscopic bit of zinc left on the coliumn. 4) the plate needs to cool more.    Any ideas? I'm lost
Reply:Try to post a picture. and complete machine settings, rod and process used.
Reply:This is your first job a month out of school right?  Give as much detail as you can so guys can help you figure this out.Any experienced guys on staff you can ask?Are you practicing this position at home so you know you can nail it?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Not my first job, but not a ton of experience. I am fresh out of school in an effort to be a better welder. I'm running about 115-120 with 1/8th 7018. It's a Miller 400, so it's hard to know the exact amperage. The confusing part is that the long weld against the webbing looks great, but the two on the flange look horrible. My verticals look good, too, but they are also in the webbing. It looks like the arc is just hitting the horizontal plate and not the column at all. Almost seems like arc blow, but it happens on every piece I try. It's digging a crater but the metal is not sticking inside. It's like it's just oozing out in globs. There's no one else to ask. I'm the only welder. These guys just gave me a truck and say "go do this, you're the welder. figure it out". I'm literally laying in a hole while welding, so I can't shift my body very much. But my angle seems good, and I'm not long arcing. If I try to grind it out there are just big balls of porous weld with about a 1 inch gap in between one inch balls of weld. I can't get a pic of them for at least a few days when I go back out. I didn't think to take a pic, they aren't something I want anyone to see! haha I tried the same weld in the same position on mild steel T joints and had no real problems, but when I went back to the actual piece, it went back to looking like crap.
Reply:If one side is galvy and it's OK to use make the first pass w/ 6011 to burn out the zinc, then use 7018 for next two passes.                                               MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I got a hunch it is arc blow. Try changing direction of travel. Move your ground lead clamp to another location. If you can heat this area to a dull red, then let cool while you weld somewhere else.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sounds like arc blow to me also. Try CEP's tips first,,,, but if it's doesn't (it should succeed) see even if you can get some 6010/6011 and make some good heavy tacks all around or do a root pass so it is essentially all one piece of base metal.... hope it works for ya!!Pics also too TOOLS AND TOYSSMAW Mid States Inc. "MISSING LINK" 10-150 AMP Buzzer circa 1945ishSMAW Magic Wand 40-60 AMP Suitcase Buzzer circa 1939ishGMAW Hobart 210 IronmanOxy-Propane TorchMany other old and cold goodies"Rusty but Trusty"
Reply:When welding overhead T or lap joints you need to direct more of your rod to the upper/overhead piece of metal. Allow your puddle to build and gently pull it down onto the lower piece. Keep your arc SHORT or you will undercut and long arc and make a mess. On a 3 pass overhead weld I run the first pass just as I stated. The second pass under the first I will increase my arc length slightly to put a little more heat into it and help flatten it out and spread the puddle. The top and third pass I keep the arc as short as possible and use a saw tooth motion to ensure it washes into the top of the second pass and fills any undercut on the top toe of the 3rd pass. On the 3rd pass I will sometimes turn the machine down 5 amps. A remote is handy in this application. It's just inexperience that's killing you here.Last edited by snoeproe; 08-01-2014 at 07:10 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:If it's a Columb try wrapping your ground around it a few times
Reply:To me it sounds like wrong polarity. With the correct polarity ~70% of the heat should be in the rod. Arc blow can mitigated by wrapping cables, or moving the ground real close. I suspect the ground is already pretty close, and if you are using a tight arc on 7018, it should not be a problem. Make sure your rods are dry and clean.Constant Current Weldor.
Reply:Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm gonna try the arc blow corrections. I wish I could use 6010/11 but wps says 7018 and there's a cwi watching me like a hawk. Definitely not wrong polarity. If that doesn't fix it, I'm just gonna take my torch and chop the damn things down like trees!
Reply:Turn it up 10-15 amps amps and push it into the column more. The zinc residue is messing with you. Overhead like that takes more amps than flat. Keep a very short arc, if it sticks... turn it up.
Reply:@ Jeff - gut's telling me the galvy is playing tricks with you, vice arc blow.  CEP's heat technique should resolve that problem.  Perhaps this thread will aid you in troubleshooting and getting back on track:  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...rhead-problemsShort arc and arc length manipulation are key for sure.  Let us know how it turns out.  Best fortune bro."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:jeffwheat13I have used acres of galvanized 5/8" x 48" x 144" plate repurposed into square tanks and welded with 7018.Grind to parent metal, fit, and weld . . . . . no issues: other than normal 'zinc' abhorrence, and noxiousness.If the joint was good - start with 7018 and fill to cap.If the joint was irregular - run a root with 6010 then fill to cap with 7018.- - - - Zinc, and Arc Blow: are different conditions. 'Back in the day' when running miles of stick 'arc-blow'occurred with some frequency.  I won't espouse on the apocryphal 'field tactics' for its defeat - your time will be better spent with an authority . . .http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ow-detail.aspx- - - - To your credit - you have confided and confessed your lack of over-head experience - this may be your 'issue'.In past posts - I have said that over-head - is just flatupside-down.  That's not the entire story . . .In Hobo Hilton's words, "you have to have the push".With 7018: welding flat - you can drag, welding vertical -you have to touch, and when welding overhead - you have to have push.Drag, touch, and push - refer to the 'flux-ears' of the rod.When welding overhead: you run hot, fast, and closest;because you can maintain 'push' = skill.You are not going to learn this on your own up-side downin a hole.  Seek out a welding Guru in your net-work.This is not difficult - you simple have to see what to do.Opus.Last edited by OPUS FERRO; 08-02-2014 at 12:17 AM.Reason: you is not your.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROjeffwheat13To your credit - you have confided and confessed your lack of over-head experience - this may be your 'issue'.In past posts - I have said that over-head - is just flatupside-down.  That's not the entire story . . .In Hobo Hilton's words, "you have to have the push".With 7018: welding flat - you can drag, welding vertical -you have to touch, and when welding overhead - you have to have push.Drag, touch, and push - refer to the 'flux-ears' of the rod.When welding overhead: you run hot, fast, and closest;because you can maintain 'push' = skill.You are not going to learn this on your own up-side downin a hole.  Seek out a welding Guru in you net-work.This is not difficult - you simple have to see what to do.Opus
Reply:Coming from a marine construction background. It may be to late for this project, but in the future. Ask for an LN-25, and Hobart's Fabshield 21-B. It makes welding galvanized steel childs play. I built several ferry, and container ship docks where there were galvanized steel pipe piling, and galvanized cap beams. 21-B works fantastic! Besides DCEN is a big help with galvanize, and arc blow too. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Another wire that is recommended for welding galvanized is Lincoln's T-14.This will be one of those times where you will find what works and it will be a trick you picked up along the way. All great suggestions from above. Grind the heck out of that galvinized, grind till you can feel the metal underneath. Preheat works great with arc blow, so does AC welding. Change Directions, Change the position of the ground. Actually, put it on the galvinized piece and make sure its a good clean ground.The amps are hard to set on some machines. Watch fieldres's video on amperage and voltage. You will understand welding like you never did before after. He is basically explaining weaving around a pipe, however you will learn how to set that welder properly and make it do what you want.Now, something to try, don't try to weld it. Paint it in (so to speak). Don't weld an equal leg fillet, you cant! Bridge the top to bottom, start on the top and roll it down and push the weld along, might have to  weld a little C pattern just to get that first pass in.  If its starting to fall out, whip out a quick second and get back and fill it a little (bad habit bit if u get desperate its an option).Also, keep working that rod like you are snuffing out a cigarette, it will weld better. It will burn off uniform. It helps a lot.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:He is running stick guys. Not wire. The weld procedure for his work calls for stick on this. The miller 400 (big blue?) is a DC only machine, and I fine one at that.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:if you can try running a bead on ac. arc blow hates alternating current. sorry, just read it's a dc only machine.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Well, I found my problem. Those plates aren't cut square and there's a little gap in the spots that are burning through. That's why when I try a t joint in the same position it comes out fine! So to fill the gap I have been starting on top and trying to wash it down to the side. Like a vertical weave but sideways. It doesn't look perfect, but at least it's solid! Any advice on making it look better? C's, V's, some weird triangle/xmas tree/mig type thing? LolLast edited by jeffwheat13; 08-05-2014 at 08:57 AM.Reason: syntax
Reply:What you can do to help fill- turn it up hot, go in at a straighter angle and go slow, hold and and fill up the gap. hold it longer than you think. then move along at that rate. the down fall is the slag will be hard to ship out of there and its going  to likely spit out a bunch of hot spatter all over.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.