Replaceing a staircases

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Any advice on replaceing a set of staircases like this. Have it booked for week after next.
Reply:Railing pickets need to be no greater than 4 inches apart.
Reply:I would build a nice set of triangulated supports for the steps on both sets, and maybe a curved landing between both stair cases.Did they have any design preferences?Budget?I'd definitely look into the local codes for outdoor stairs and railings.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:The budget is as cheap as possible, and the building inspector says 7 1/4" rise per stare and round top hand rail
Reply:Unfortunately i have no good advice on the subject but you can view many different styles there...(many would'nt pass code these days.)http://julienlebreton.com/escaliers/index.html
Reply:How can they limit you to a specific rise?  Stairs are easy to make money on,  hope you get paid for the rail. Good luck. Let the price be their issue. I would suggest punches channel. Place channel "U" up and set round tube on top of  Channel.  Pitch treads and deck for drainage .  Suggest an awning. Get a lift or crane.  If you are the restdemo man.
Reply:There is quite a lot of code when it comes to stairs, you should talk to the building inspectors to get all the facts. Things such as the  handrail not continuous in the picture are a no no if I remember correctly. Also the open riser, lack of guard rail, height of handrail, and width of stairs and landing are other things to think about.
Reply:Why are they being replaced ? They seem fine.brad
Reply:Originally Posted by Brad NWhy are they being replaced ? They seem fine.brad
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarmThe budget is as cheap as possible, and the building inspector says 7 1/4" rise per stare and round top hand rail
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Talk to gerry1964He's the staircase guru.
Reply:darlingtonfarmYou can ask your local building authority what version of the UBC - Unified Building Code they use, but don't ask design questions.It announces that you don't know anything, and will annoy the inspector.  Their job is to inspect your product - not to teach.The only exception is if you have contradictory conditions thatconflict with code sections.For your edification: do a WEB search for UBC stair & rail codes to get an idea of the scope of what's required.If this is your first 'code-stair' - I'd do a 'take-off' drawing of: the top-platform to ground, and top-platform to corner, withdimensions . . . and base-plate elevations.  Then do a WEB search for Drafting Services in your area.  Drafting is a common independent 'home-office' business and is affordable.  DS will provide perfected prints, and to local UBC codes.  If you have an inspector, you will have to 'pull' a building permit. Permits typically require a design for approval and often open other issues: e.g. will the rail across the top-platform have toalso be brought into code compliance.When I do stairs I design the look [color, style elements] with the client, but the numbers I turn over to AutoCAD.Opus
Reply:Wow thanks for all the input. I guess I should not have called it cheap. Think more utilitarian, no frills but built to last is more like it. Planning on 1 1/2" by 11 3/4"  grip strut for the landing and treads the existing ones are concreate and rotted out. Setting up an appointment to meat with the inspector. They don't require plans and seem pretty lax on what is go no go. From our initial conversation seemed like all he cared about was the rise per stare and a round hand rail.
Reply:I would try to talk them into reworking the structure they have. You can bend up treads that will overlay, and weld onto the stringers, cut the ugly hand rail off and replace with something nice. Maybe look into replacing all those posts with a couple bigger posts to free up some space under it.
Reply:The structure on the old ones was not put together all that well and is rotten through in a couple places. Going to try to salvage the hand rail. Its up to code aside from the landing is too low and the rail needs to be round.
Reply:If you are going to copy the basic design you should change the landing to upper stair case connection. I design and fab a lot of stairs and, too me, that looks a little dodgy.Make the left stringer on the upper stair look more like the following. Except extend the bottom to be part of the landing.stringer.PDFI agree with app-ironworksllc do not use concrete treads outside, water will wick under the concrete and heave if there is frost. Use grating or suregrip treads. brad
Reply:Make them out of high nickel stainless. Fun to weld and nothing beats the look of stainless beads.No need to paint them is another big plus! Just sayin...Or, make them outa crappy low grade carbon steel, MIG everything, rattle can paint job and run forthe hills. Making stairs probably has allot of liability, I'd pass...
Reply:Think I'l go to harbour freight and get a $100 flux core for this job, want it to look as good as some of the welds on these stairs.  I like the idea of changing it to look a little less armatureish. Am going to use open treds and landing, think my steel dealer calles it grip strut, comes in pre cut galvanized sections with mounting hardware. Tried selling the guy on galvanizeing the entire thing but he dident want to shell out the cash. Would love to try a ss vertion but... yeah galvanizing was too much.  I think I should be ok on liability I have general liability will be bonded with the city as of Monday.
Reply:Spent a day learning sketchup and got these drawn out and in to the permit office.
Reply:I still would have gone down to a single post. Looks good though.
Reply:You had better check the codes. Many rails now days need to be 42" with the handrail at 2'-10". You have a 11"-12" lead rail(beginning and end of the handrail) that also returns back to the wall of the building or to the rail it self so it dosn't make a "purse grabber". No gaps bigger the 4" anywhere on the rail, top, bottom, between pickets, ect.
Reply:Stairs are dangerous, not handicap friendly, and eat up too much labor and steel. Go with a trebuchet and slide. Even a person in a wheelchair could use these alternatives.
Reply:Gotta say I hate building stairs on location. Took 16 hours to get this side done. The other set is getting pre built.
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Reply:Looks good ! Bet the gin poles came in handy on that jobLooks like tons of fun, I'm getting ready to help install my very first set of stairs here in a week or so. The place that is doing the galvanized coating on the stringers for us is back logged by a week.93 Bobcat 225GMillerMatic 135HF Tig 91811
Reply:It was a blast.... No it sucked. Yeah the gin pole kicked butt. Any advice on replaceing this I beam. Owner wants a price to replace it. Never done any thing like that before.
Reply:Looks good D'. Did you assemble 100% on site or fab some in the shop?Regarding your I beam replacement, don't underestimate enough for shoring.And get DSW's and or CEP's attention.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:only part I pre built was the landing square. Not to sound dumb but what's a DSW or CEP?
Reply:DSW and CEP are a couple noledgeable  poster here ,  Yes plenty of shoring    post jacks and the like ,make sure your insurance is paid up. and it is not a one man job.
Reply:I just did a rough guess and average concrete weighs about 145 # per cubic foot so one square foot of that upper deck weighs about 50#so guessing 4 feet wide 40 long that deck weighs 8,000# plus the steel and wood underneath.upper railings and roof over hang.gxbxc
Reply:I think DSW are his initials and Im guessing CEP is short for DCEP. Are the Gin poles new? I thought you recently built that bed.Thanks for sharing pics of your work.
Reply:Oh Derp, the poles are new got them off a guy here for 100 bucks. Love haveing then makes soo many jobs soo much easier
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarmonly part I pre built was the landing square. Not to sound dumb but what's a DSW or CEP?
Reply:Your going to have to build temporary shoring before you take that beam outVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:You can check with local concrete form rental companies like Symon's for shoring. Many times they have screw jacks and such designed to take heavy loads for doing reinforced concrete floor pours in multi story buildings. Most good size towns/cities have places like this.I've never had to shore an existing concrete deck, but I've shored up plenty of 2nd story floors to remove bearing walls beneath them and install new beams to open up rooms or cut out sections of floor to relocate stairs. In these cases we usually build a temporary stud wall a few feet on either side of where we need to work. When really heavy loads are anticipated,  or if we can't work with 16" normal spacing due to space and access considerations, rather than a flat top plate, we go with a 2x header. I actually have a job coming up within a month where I have to do just that. The client wants to open up a bearing wall between the old garage that has been enclosed and what is now the living room. I'll build the temporary stud wall in the living room leaving myself enough space so I can get the new 2x12 LVL beams in and up on post jacks. then I'll put in the jack studs and tie all the wood together before removing the temporary stud wall.When I have to pull posts for porches for replacement, I'll use a 20 ton bottle jack  and either a 4x4 or heavy pipe to extend it, and lift the porch roof an 1/8" so that when I install the new posts, the weight settles down on the column. I've also done the same sort of thing when I've had to replace lally columns in a basement. That little bit of extra space lets you get  the column in tight.I don't know how they poured that deck. It looks like the beam is partially recessed from the one picture. I've seen guys simply put plywood up against the underside of the web and brace. That would end up looking like what I see here. That means that the new beam will have to match the old one if it's to sit in that same recess. Also in some cases they weld rebar to the beams for reinforcement. If that is the case, the deck may to have to go. I see a rust spot in the underside of the concrete floor in that 1st pict. That doesn't mean that the bar is welded to the beam, only that there is a possibility it's in the slab.I'd make sure to make a note that if the floor is tied to the steel, additional work is going to be required. That would be a lot like the standard "rock" clause when digging for footings, which says if you hit rock, the costs will go up due to the unanticipated extra work and equipment rental. This covers your azz in case you have to demo the whole deck and support the roof above, then repour. This is most likely going to be one of those things you won't know what you have until you actually do the work unless they have really good original prints to go from ( and they built the building like the prints show)If you try and take the beam down and it is tied to the deck, I'd probably opt to air arc or OA cut the whole beam flange off  vs demo the deck. If you can cut it flat, you may be able to put the new beam under it. If not, you may have to gouge the flange off completely..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIf you try and take the beam down and it is tied to the deck, I'd probably opt to air arc or OA cut the whole beam flange off  vs demo the deck. If you can cut it flat, you may be able to put the new beam under it. If not, you may have to gouge the flange off completely.
Reply:By me up to 17" you do not need a hand rail. Over seventeen and it has to be 36". Over six feet I believe, it has to be 42". Over two stories and they require 60" by actual trial and error.  The rule for the railings is that a 4" ball cannot fit through the rails. Most people here still get away with 34.5 inch rails on most of the average stoops up to six feet high. Never heard of anyone having a problem. Most people get the rails to maintain their mortgage insurance on the house. And the insurance company is ok with that height evidently. Does not mean it is right.                        Sincerely,                            William McCormick
Reply:I decided I'm not touching that beam replacement. Talked to the city... Wanted to have an engineer do drawings and sign off. I have better things to do than dick around with that. Talked to a guy I know that does that type stuff and he wouldn't do it  because it's an apartment building. If any one is close and would be interested. Have at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarmI decided I'm not touching that beam replacement. Talked to the city... Wanted to have an engineer do drawings and sign off. I have better things to do than dick around with that. Talked to a guy I know that does that type stuff and he wouldn't do it  because it's an apartment building. If any one is close and would be interested. Have at it.
Reply:Like that thinking
Reply:My thinking was I can get a bunch of other jobs done in the same amount of time with much less headaches and risk. I got the second set of stairs done this weekend. While I was there he asked if I'd cut the beam out and put in a 2x10.... Uhh hell noNow he wants me to tack up some plywood over it so the building inspector wont see the beam when he comes to look at the stairs. Not sure what to do already talked to the inspector about beam. So he knows there are problems. I don't want the reputation of a shady character but also want the stairs to pass and get paid. Guessing if he sees it the city will make the owner fix it.Last edited by darlingtonfarm; 09-20-2014 at 04:05 PM.
Reply:Not to piss anyone off here but here's the truth. When you exposed the rust issue with the beam the existing stairs where still intact, you should have done nothing until the issue with the beam was corrected. By replacing the stairs and attaching them to the existing  damaged material you are now just as liable as the property owner. If someone gets hurt or killed if that deck falls, you will be involved in the lawsuit and will need a really good lawyer. You make the comment that you just want to get paid once it passes inspection. Any inspector with half a brain won't pass it until the beam issue is corrected. I know we are all here to make a living but in the 34 years of experience that  I have in this industry  I have never or will ever walk away from a completed job knowing there are unsafe conditions to the public. The burden of knowing that someone was hurt or killed because I did a half *** job just to get paid isn't worth it.Last edited by kartman; 09-22-2014 at 12:07 AM.
Reply:You need to be careful with the railing height at the transition, at the first step up from the landing.  The original stairs were done correctly, the drawing could have an issue.  Railing height on the stairs need to be taken from the nose of the step.GlenMiller Dynasty 200DX - Millermatic 350P - Hypertherm Powermax 45Want to sell!! - Hobart Handler 150
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarm....I don't want the reputation of a shady character but also want the stairs to pass and get paid. Guessing if he sees it the city will make the owner fix it.
Reply:Blah, I swore I was done with this building but have an engineer comming out in the morning to look at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarmBlah, I swore I was done with this building but have an engineer comming out in the morning to look at it.
Reply:if need be see if there is a house mover in your area who can shore it up or tell you how to do it
Reply:Originally Posted by darlingtonfarmBlah, I swore I was done with this building but have an engineer comming out in the morning to look at it.
Reply:Welp the engineer looked at it wrote a plan that went to the city. Thought the owner was going to blow a gasket when he got my quote. But he went for it. The inspector from the city was impressed with the stairs and took some cards to give out! Was happy that it passed and he was happy with it. Il post some pics when I get home. Just thrilled it dident require any mods or rework.