Coal forge

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There's an old antique forge in my pasture that hasn't been looked at for over 50 yrs. It's basically a flat table with a hand cranked fan on the side. What's the advantage to having the fire pit in the design? A couple guys have mentioned brake drum forges and I was thinking about that using the old forge as a base and replacing the hand fan with an electric one. Or would it be easier to start from scratch and make a more modern design? The thought of making more of my own tools is getting very appealing.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:That old forge may be just fine for you if you're just starting out.  Hard to say if you should start from scratch.  Why not post some pictures of the old forge?If it's not fixable, then you would of course be better off making one of your own design.  Lots of smiths use hand cranked blowers and lots use powered fans...personal preference and depending on forge design.  The old forge may have a usable firepot.  If not, then you could use a brake drum or fab up one to your taste.  There are lots of ways to configure and fab your forge, firepot, air supply, etc.DSW just started a new sticky on blacksmithing on this forum, you might want to check it out.  LOTS of good info there.  Also, iforgeiron.com has lots of info on forges.  DSW and a few others have some very nice firepot fabs and have posted their builds.
Reply:Yeah start a thread with picts of what you have and we can give you some help in what direction to go. I have an old hand pumped rivet forge that doesn't have a fire pot and it's just fine for some things. I'd hate to see you mess up a nice old forge if it's still in useable shape.Electric vs manual depends on a lot of things. I can do a lot with my hand pumped forge using soft coal. I don't need to have a constant source of air with that and it saves a lot on fuel. With my big forge, I originally used hard coal, and that does need a constant flow of air to stay lit. With that I have the blower running full time and control how much air goes to the pot. It will burn hard or soft coal, but with soft coal, I go thru a lot more fuel since I have the blower on full time. My other option would be to turn the blower on and off when I use soft coal, but right now I'm not set up to do that easily. Eventually I may grab one of those HF on off pedals for power tools to control the fan, but for right now, I still have a fair amount of hard coal I need to use up before I replace it with soft coal. A lot of guys just like the nostalgia of an old hand cranked blower, and if you aren't cranking out big items or doing production work, a hand blower will work just fine. Even though I have two forges already, I'm always keeping my eyes open for another old forge. I've looked at a few hand blowers guys have had for sale with the idea of having one of those as well, but so far nothing has jumped out as a super deal just yet. It is nice to be able to do stuff for demos and all without needing to be tied to electrical power. That's the reason I got my little pump forge and why I'm keeping my eyes open for a hand cranked one. The kids always love being able to turn the crank and "help" and it really engages the audience. It's a bit tougher to do this with my pump forge..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It's pretty rough and I doubt that it would have any value in it's present condition but it doesn't have any rust holes. Pretty sure the fan is seized solid though.  Sourcing coal here isn't very handy and I've spent the nite roaming around the homemade vids and posts for both coal and propane. I might still use the old forge as a base and go propane.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:My forge has a fart fan for a blower.  Works great, but......man, those hand-cranked blowers are SO MUCH quieter!!!! :-)
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronThere's an old antique forge in my pasture that hasn't been looked at for over 50 yrs. It's basically a flat table with a hand cranked fan on the side. What's the advantage to having the fire pit in the design? A couple guys have mentioned brake drum forges and I was thinking about that using the old forge as a base and replacing the hand fan with an electric one. Or would it be easier to start from scratch and make a more modern design? The thought of making more of my own tools is getting very appealing.
Reply:PS: coal vs propanePropane forges are easy to use and cover a lot of ground, but they aren't a perfect substitute for coal. Think of it like your stovetop vs. your oven. Coal is your stovetop: intense localized heat. Propane is like your oven: less hot, uniformly so. Personally, I use my stovetop more than my oven, but I wouldn't think my kitchen very functional without both. Heating and re-heating take longer in propane, but you get longer length heats. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. Short answer, propane is good for long heats and multiples (since you can have more than one piece hot without burning them up). Propane is also a good alternative where you don't want smoke or can't have a chimney. Coal is perfect for high temp needs and short heats and most all around hand forging.
Reply:I warned you that this thing was rough so here's the proof. The legs have obviously seen better days but are just round tubing attached with set screws so easily replaced. The hand crank blower is seized but I'd add an electric one anyway. If I ever get serious about doing something with it I'll start a new thread, but right now it's a long way down the list. It was built in Kitchener Ont. I'm guessing early 1910-1920's. It hasn't been operated for longer than I've been alive and used to sit in an old shed that was torn down about the time I started to walk. Attached Images250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Hey, that's not in too awful shape.  Needs some legs or a new frame, maybe some work on the table and patch work with a welder might work there if it's not too thin.  Is the table steel or cast iron?  Firepot steel or cast iron?You could soak the blower in a rust removing solvent or if the rust is too bad, maybe an electrolyte bath like a big plastic tub or storage container.  Search for rust solvents; there are lots of favorites.  Those old blowers are neat to have.  If you don't want to use it, I'm sure you could come up with a buyer in short order.
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronThere's an old antique forge in my pasture that hasn't been looked at for over 50 yrs. It's basically a flat table with a hand cranked fan on the side.
Reply:Whtbaron, I moved the posts about your forge to it's own thread so it gets the attention it deserves. If you would prefer another title, just let me know and I'll make the change..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:That old forge needs to be hauled  out of the pasture and brought back to life , I didn't see any breaks in the picture.
Reply:Oh and I'll bet Mario (Ironhart) could do something with those  screw conveyors in the back ground .
Reply:LOL.... seen that when I came looking for replies. Title is fine, thanks. And yes, I also think it's all cast. The top is pitted but no holes so it is salvageable.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:The items in the background are some old 7 inch auger flights out of a grain auger. If they were 6 inch I already would have had a place for them.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I'd love to have that forge. Put some TLC into it and it'll last another couple life times.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I would love to come across a forge like that especially in that condition! The nostalgia factor is through the roof, that's a good thing if you do shows or fairs or any type of events. My forge is made of 1/2" plate and probably won't outlast that one even if it sat there for another 20 years! You just can't beat a cast iron forge for longevity. I'd say it's well worth fixing up and using just the way it's set up unless you run hard coal, then I'd invest in an electric fan.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Yep, heated shop first, then more tools to fill it up. That old forge and some new railroad anvils just might end up back inside in the very near future.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Still lots of life left in that forge. I'd love to have something like that one day.
Reply:Nothing at all wrong with that piece of art.USE IT!I have a 2' x 4' forge that my father found while deer hunting some 60 years ago.It was about 1/2 mile off the main road and he drug it down the mountain.It is made by Silver Mfg, and the research I have done puts it around the late 1890s.Silver Mfg. eventually became Silver & Demming.It originally hade a hand lever that ran a flywheel that ran the blower.  That was all gone.I put an electric motor on it.
Reply:So it's still the original blower that you are driving with the electric motor?250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Sounds like it. Most likely the original design is like my small rivet forge. The lever drives a ratcheting gear that turns the big flywheel, and a leather belt from there ( not on in these picts as I don't keep it on so rodents and all don't chew it up) turns the blower itself. This BTW would be a "flat" forge with no fire pot. The grate for the forge also is not in place in this picture..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:^^^ I WANT ONE!^^^^ lolSweet forge! If I had the funds I would probably buy everything I could get my hands on related to blacksmithing or at least the parts to build them, I'd buy tools just to figure out how to use them lol!Unfortunately that's not in the cards.. So for now it's ... Drool over it a while, figure out how to make it, start building it, get side tracked on another project for a while, then finish the original project completely different from the original plan but somehow always more useable!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Yes, mine has the original blower.  I simply put a motor and jack shaft on the bottom.I have seen pics of my style, and it was similar to the setup in DSW's pics.  You can still see the handle mount on the left side in the pic with it burning.
Reply:I wanted a manual one to do demos with in case I couldn't get electricity on site. It's got  a repaired crack in the pan, probably from someone using water on their fire and getting the hot iron wet. I'm looking for a slightly bigger one, probably with a hand cranked blower. What the OP or rlarkin has would be perfect..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganI can remember using one like rlarkin has one time at a Scouting get together. My former employer had borrowed it to take there. But it was complete with lever like DSW showed and had a vent hood on it as well around the rounded back part.   Man that was a long time ago. We tried to make knifes from some sucker rod. Had a lot of problems getting the heat right with so many boys pumping and trying to do it at the same time.   I currently have my former employers old forge that his dad used. Just no place to set it up and used it. It's built similar in shape but was fancier in that it was electric powered. You can barely see some of it in this pic. Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:I see it. Painted red in the lower right behind the pedestal grinder.I like it! Sort of the shop version of "Where's Waldo!" .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I thought my legs were just bent (well, they are, but not as much as I thought they were) but I see those curved out feet were pretty common. Don't think I'm a fan of that design... strikes me that they could result in a lot of stubbed toes and bruised shins.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Stability. Give it a wider foot print on the ground..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yea... I understand the reasoning, I'm just not sure I need to be that stable. If you look at the 2nd pic in post #20 he's added straight legs and casters... could be the direction I'm thinking.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:The straight legs were due to the fact that 2 of the mounts for the tube legs were broken.The casters were to move it out of the way when not in use.  But the AWE factor when people walk into my shop is COOL!, so it stays in plain view.I don't use a hood.  Only take a couple minutes to get hot and the smoke disappears.Plus, the short burst of green/yellow sooty smoke sticks to the cob webs in my 24' ridge and weighs them down so they fall, keeping the ceiling cleaner.
Reply:Hahahaha... I like the way you think! I use brake cleaner and a lighter myself... Almost as fun but there are no hammers involved so you win! LolReal welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaron I'm just not sure I need to be that stable.
Reply:I may have exaggerated when I said I was normal...All this talk about old forges, anvils and blacksmithing has me scouting the old junk piles with a different perspective. Yesterday I picked up what I used to think was somebody's idea of a homemade chipping hammer for welding, now I'm not so sure. It probably predates any electric welders we had in the yard. Not the cleanest build....lol.... guess I come by it honestly!Last edited by whtbaron; 10-01-2014 at 09:55 AM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I like the idea of being able to roll the forge outside, I don't see a chimney in the new shop any time soon. I want to be able to paint in there occasionally so ignition sources for the combustibles isn't anything my insurance agent is going to want to see operating in there. He probably wouldn't want to watch me operating in there either... I was just reading back to the previous posts and DSW mentioned that his forge had a grate. Would one like mine have had one as well?Last edited by whtbaron; 10-01-2014 at 09:12 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Yours has a clinker breaker, so it doesn't need a grate. If you look at my coal forge build, my big forge I built has a rotating clinker breaker like yours does. Coal when it cokes, sticks together some what and so it really doesn't drop thru the opening around the clinker breaker.  I can get my fingers between the side of my firepot and the clinker breaker and I don't have any issues. Some small stuff probably does drop thru, but it's negligible.My small forge I posted here is a bit different. It's just an open pipe. I need something that allows air to flow thru, but doesn't allow coal/coke to drop. Hence I have an iron grate with holes in it to cover the opening. Yours won't need that..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I guess I'm just going to have to get that puppy fired up some day and get it all figured out.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:That's a darn fine forge we've had one just like it on the farm for close to a hundred years .
Reply:Yea, my grandfather moved here in 1928 and I think that forge probably would have been in the shed when he came here, so it had a very active life early on. Problem is that the shed it was in got torn down somewhere around 1960 and that poor old forge has sat outside with no use since then. Apparently it's been waiting for me to spit out the poison apple and wake up.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:still waiting on the pictures of it pulled out of the scrap pile with some legs under it vs on top of it.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:LOL...me too! I was hoping to get the heated shop floor poured before freezeup so I could start moving stuff in I could work on over the winter. So far it isn't happening, and I've been informed I have a new grand daughter getting christened 2 provinces away before the end of the month... life happens.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Non chloride accelerator is your friend! It's easily possible to pour even when temps go below freezing if you know what you are doing. I'd assume in Canadia  they'd know how to do this no problem. If you are doing it yourself, I can make some good suggestions on how to pull it off. I'll assume if you can still get crete, they are running hot water in the mix, can add accelerator at the plant or on site, and you can get blankets to cover the pour area both before and after the pour to protect it. If they are still shipping crete, you can still pour... It's just a question if you want to deal with the added expenses. It's even simpler if the walls are up, or you can pump warm water thru the tubes in the pour..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'm actually renovating an old pig barn, so it will be inside and I can turn on the heat if need be. The problem is that I need to do a lot of repair work on the walls before new concrete gets poured against them. My son in law is in the concrete business so he did a lot of the work with the first pour last year.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:First shot is my 100 yr old oak stump holding up my tractor instead of my anvil. Good news is that the tractor is off of it now, so the anvil still has hope. Bad news is that I had to send the tractor out to a shop that charges over $100/hr. Still hunting for parts but I dug up that old home made chipping hammer I found. Spent some time on the grinder, redid the bad weld, drilled a hanging hole and gave it some (appropriately enough) high heat flat black paint.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Nice job on the chipping hammer!  "Cleaned up right nice", as they say.That works well for some old hammers you might have laying around...re-purpose them for your blacksmithing.  Old ball peins are good beginning stock to make other hammers, hot cut tools, drifts, punches and other such tools.  The old hammers are usually better grade steel than some of the newer stuff out there, and can be picked up for a couple of bucks at flea markets, yard sales, other farms, etc.That chipping hammer could have been turned into a nice handled hot cut chisel, with the head flattened, the chisel end squared and sharpened a bit.  It probably was made from some steel with a bit more carbon than mild steel and would not need any heat treatment to keep it's shape.Last edited by shortfuse; 10-13-2014 at 10:42 AM.
Reply:At first glance I thought it was an old railroad spike, but it's hex shaped, and seems to be better steel. I never thought of a handled chisel...lol, could have saved myself a bunch of grinding on the back end! It must have taken a beating over the years since the edges were long gone.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I neglected to mention one other mod to a chipping hammer like that would be a hot cut slitter.  Similar to a hand-held hot cut chisel, but the slitter can be moved along a lengthy slit using the handle, hammer and a hold-down tool.  Very similar tools, just a difference in nomenclature.I took a small hammer head that was about 1" diameter, one end with a flat head the other a straight blunt pein.  I carefully ground the straight pein into a narrow, sharp chisel shape and use it for a hot cut slitter.  Still had a good wooden handle, so I didn't have to make one.  The slow periodic grinding helped retain any heat treatment the old hammer head had in it.One thing you want to remember...when using a hot cut tool like a chisel, slitter or punch, you need to dip the tip in water frequently when striking (like every two or three blows) to retain any hardness or heat treatment.  Often, cutting on a hot piece renders any heat treatment useless, so it's usually a moot point.  I like to cool mine anyway.Some smiths just buy the cheep spring-handled chipping hammers and modify the head.Last edited by shortfuse; 10-13-2014 at 03:10 PM.