Portable Paint Removal Water Blaster

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Is anyone aware of small water-blast system for paint removal?About 15 years ago when I worked at Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd.; the company assembled a water blaster that fit inside a small tool box. It was very simple:a) a 1/4 - 1/3 HP electric motor,b) a high pressure (10,000 psi), low volume (quart/minute) water pump,c) a 1 gallon jug of water,d) a 5 foot-long high-pressure hose, withe) a tiny metal nozzle that emitted a mist-like fan of water.The unit was made to remove packing seals from around industrial valve stems.However, I found it did just an amazing job of striping paint!E.g. From a distance of about 3 inches, I moved the spray nozzle across a steel shelf having baked on enamel finish; behind the nozzle a 3 inch wide swath of bare shiny steel was left - all the paint was simply gone!  All this in just a few seconds.Note: The unit put out only about a quart of water per minute but a very high pressure of 10,000 psi, very different from today's conventional pressure washer operating at about 3 gallons per minute and 3,000 psi.  The trick to success was the high pressure: while 3,000 psi can't remove baked-on paint too well, 10,000 psi sure can!  There was no mess since so little water was used.What a great tool!   Man I could have used such a device many times! However, I have never seen such a product to buy.  I’ve searched the Internet for something like this but I can't find anything like it - just huge horsepower industrial trailer-size units that cost big $$$$.My question is: Has anyone come across anything like this - a small high pressure, low volume, water blaster paint remover?Rick V
Reply:did it use a blasting medium like sand? there are attachments for pressure washers that do wet sand blasting
Reply:did it use a blasting medium like sand? there are attachments for pressure washers that do wet sand blasting
Reply:sound like the HOT ticketDaye
Reply:After searching the Internet, it seemed that 10,000 psi may not be enough pressure to remove paint.  The literature seems to suggest more like 15,000 psi.  After 15,000 psi pumps seem to give way to something called an 'intensifier'.  This appears to be hydraulic ram/piston that stokes the water in a cylinder up to very high pressures - like 60,000 psi.  This pressure is sufficient to cut steel and is used to do just that in commercial 'water-jet cutting'.Anyway, details on a 'small' 15 HP unit outputing 1/4 gallon per minute at 60,000 psi are available on the following web site:http://www.industrialmotionsystems.c...tem-slv15.aspxI've attached some information from that web site.Still, this is not what I saw back at my old work place; that unit was much smaller consisting only of an electric motor (~1/2 HP size max) and a small pump - that all fit in a small tool box!Any suggestions?Rick V Attached Images
Reply:can you talk to someone at your old work place .  to get hte name of the company??
Reply:Can you talk to someone at your old work place . to get the name of the company? - tigmusky
Reply:Still, there might be someone around; I'll see if I can pursue that. Good idea - thanks.
Reply:...Well the place I work now...we have an 'air-less' sprayer....34:1 ratio....100 PSI air, 3,400 psi paint.....will really mess-up your hands, fingers whatever....like 'amputation time' for any liquid injected into body at this pressure....orifice from .007-.018"...depending on what you're spraying...even with .011" at 2,500 PSI...will blast right through your hand....and gloves....  10K+ PSI.....cut your fingers off real quick-like....most of these things are not designed  for 'hand work'.....and usually have safety guards around the nozzles...even at 2,000-3,000 PSI....  Figure it out...if it will blast off paint and mill scale......what might it do to your hands....?Dougspair
Reply:10K+ PSI.....cut your fingers off real quick-like....most of these things are not designed for 'hand work'.....and usually have safety guards around the nozzles...even at 2,000-3,000 PSI.... Dougspair
Reply:very interesting.  safety would be the biggest draw back.   It would be fun to play with one .Daye
Reply:Nice thread.  I'm also trying to build a portable packing/paint remover.  I've build a few air-hydraulic systems for hydro-static pumps up to 10,000 psi water.  After some experience, high pressure water doesn't scare me, it is the high pressure air that scares me.  But looking at this thread, concentrated high pressure water from a very small orifice can be very dangerous also.  But I will take all precautions and try anyways...So far I have a Haskel HF-300 pump [.5 liter/min output].  I'm in process of obtaining a .015" nozzle [with a guard].  So my thinking is to put a regulator on the input air [50 psi max X 300 ratio = 15,000 psi], and for safe precautions, a 50 psi safety valve on the input air.  On the water output I will also put a safety valve ~ 15,000 psi.  From the output (with the 15,000 psi relief valve), I will use a 20,000 psi working pressure hose ( about 1/8" diameter) then hook it up to a 6" long Stainless steel tube (1/8" diameter hole, 1" thickness), at the other end of 6" tube, hook up a nozzle that forces water to come out at 90 degree.   Of course I would need to put a 10 micron or less filter somewhere along the way.  Does anyone think this is NOT a good idea?  Any help will be appreciated .
Reply:from reading the specs, make sure you control input pressure and volume of waterTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by DarkacreNice thread....Any help will be appreciated .
Reply:This is a cool item and would be sweet to make. In a little searching for this stuff I came across these guys that make a system already that is capable of up to 36k psi. http://jetedge.com/content.cfm?fusea...&product_ID=94 I am not sure on pricing as you have to request a quote. I might do that this up coming week.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:Interesting Rick. We used Haskel's to transfer, AIr, O2, Helium and Argon in the dive industry from larger LP cylinders to dive cylinders at operating pressuers after the large cyl had dropped in pressure from filling by cascade. They also use them to charge small O2 cylinders for in flight use in airlines..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:When I worked for the Air Force there was an area that used 15,000psi to clean sealant and adhesives from F-15 wings prior to overhaul.  It was http://www.aquamiser.com/Even at 15,000 psi it would not remove zinc chromate primer.  It would however cut you to the bone.Russell
Reply:Originally Posted by jones6780... Even at 15,000 psi it would not remove zinc chromate primer.  It would however cut you to the bone.Russell
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VAh but what would happen if you painted your body with zinc chromate primer?Sorry... just couldn't resist.
Reply:So for those of us in the cheap seats: You hook up a high pressure air line, and a water line to this little Haskel thingy. The air drives a big piston that pushes a little piston that pressurizes the water, sending down a really high pressure hose to a sapphire with a teeny tiny hole in it, mounted to a stainless tip?Am I warm???200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Bert,Well...the orifice size is critical, it must match your pumps output flow.  So far, I had a vendor tell me that only .006" orifice will work with my .13 gpm Haskel pump.  And that a .015" will require higher gpm.  I asked him what will happen if I put a .015", he said that you will not build up enough pressure to do the job...
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderSo for those of us in the cheap seats: You hook up a high pressure air line, and a water line to this little Haskel thingy. The air drives a big piston that pushes a little piston that pressurizes the water, sending down a really high pressure hose to a sapphire with a teeny tiny hole in it, mounted to a stainless tip?Am I warm???
Reply:Isn't that the same principle that they use with needleless hypodermic injectors for people that can't stand being pricked by needles?.....a lot less pressure, but the principle's the same....just don't get any air in the injecting fluid.If I remember rightly there is a system that is used to expand piping in a mould using high pressure water to expand the inside of the tubing.The principle of intensifiers is relatively simple......area of the power piston divided by the area of the driven piston = the ratio required, and the surface area of the driven piston gives you the volume on discharge.Enerpac make intensifiers that use air over hydraulic to produce the power for a press tool etc.Ian.
Reply:Well, I got a quote for .006" orifice nozzles (1/4" NPT thread) for about $20.  The problem is trying to find a gun without spending a fortune.  It would be nice to have a gun for control.   They are quoting $5K - $6K for a gun, not including the hose rated at 30K going for $1,000 (7 meters).  Other options: -I'm thinking of using either 7500 psi Binks or Graco spray guns and limit my pressure to 7.5K to see if it works - these do come with .007" nozzles by themselves but they are for high pressure atomizer/sprayer, but I think the concept would be similar.....I can take a chance and try to take these guns to 10K as I'm sure they are proof pressure to 10K but probably not going to risk it..-Mostly likely, the other option is to make a stainless tube with right diameter (I'm thinking 1/4" ID and 1" OD) with 1/4" thread at the bend-end to screw on the nozzle. This should easily handle 15K pressure if I don't make it too long (12" or less).   The other end of SS tube is another 1/4" NPT female,  I can just connect an Autoclave Engineering 30K psi needle valve (less than $50 on Ebay) for on/off and network it to the hose from the Haskel pump.  This way I can have some control.  This dimension also allows me to take the pressure to above 10K psi if needed.   -Or same as above without autoclave needle valve but instead control the airline pressure pumping the hydraulic pump.  That is, if I turn the air pressure off (release), the pump would lose pressure very fast.  But it maybe  inconvenient to handle 2 hoses and a release valve. As for hoses, well there are plenty of hydraulic hoses rated for 10,000 psi working pressure and 40,000 psi burst pressure that is compatible with water.   You must buy ones with very good crimping at the hose ends. I guess I will find out if it works or not when I get the nozzle in about 2 weeks.  Doesn't hurt to try since I have most of the parts already.
Reply:Darkacre, my recollection of the unit was that the only control was a valve on the air line.  Makes sense as it is much easier to control 120 psi air that 10,000+ psi water.  An air-line valve could be throttled to control the flow of air to the pump and thus the pump output.The unit I recall was really pretty simple engineeing.Red metal tool box housing the pump.  Likely had an air line male fitting sticking out of the box for easy connection of an air line.  Inside there may have been a shutoff valve (like a 90 deg swing lever ball valve) then the pump.  Out of the pump I think there was a ss steel pipe exiting the box and sticking out a few inches.  Onto this pipe end was attached the high pressure black hose.  I don't recall how the hose attached to the steel pipe.  The hose was about 4 to 6 feet long and connected to the ss wand - how I don't recall.BUT, it was all simple and cheap stuff.  e.g. If hose clamps could have been used... they likely were.I hope that helps... I'll see if I can contact the fellow who who used this for more details.Good Luck  The water wand appeared to be a three foot piece of ss tubing; it was about 1/4 ito 3/8 inch in outside diameter and rather light in weight.  It curved somewhat, maybe over 30 degrees and had a short nozzle on the exit end.  I presume that this nozzle was screwed onto the wand and housed the saphire orifice.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-AcetThanks Rick,  would be great if you can find out more as I can use all the help I can.
Reply:Originally Posted by DarkacreThanks Rick,  would be great if you can find out more as I can use all the help I can.
Reply:lol so where o where did this device run off to........i wanna see a pictureI forgot how to change this.
Reply:Darkacre, you ever build this device or did you just disappear?Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Just stumbled across this thread. What you are talking about is a high pressure waterjet packing extractor. The machine consists of a 8 hp air driven liquid pump (Haskel is one mfg), requires air of 150 psi @ 60 cfm, a high pressure hose and gun with a 1/4" SS nozzle that has a sapphire tip that is drilled out to .028" orifice.Running this machine at 17,000 psi, it will remove paint and rust, but in a small straight line because of the .028" nozzle. These machine can produce 30,000 psi, at this pressure it will cut or etch steel. Because of the high pressure, they are very dangerous. Here's a link to such a machine: http://fluidsealingservice.com/Water...%20Removal.htm
Reply:Hi Bois, welcome to the WeldingWeb.RE: What you are talking about is a high pressure waterjet packing extractor.Yeah, I guess I saw an early prototype made at Atomic Energy of Canada circa 1987 - 1998.  What I saw was real simple compared to what you are showing.  The air-driven liquid pump was not so powerful as you describe but with a fan spray a few inches from the surface it would remove a 3 inch swath of baked on enamel paint from a steel shelving unit.I just thought at the time... wow what a niffty tool to have around for removing paint.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet