TD Cutmaster 52 vs Hypertherm PM 45

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Okay guys obviously im looking into a plasma cutter. I have used several Thermal Dynamics like the Cutmaster 101 and 52, and I must say, I am in love with the 52. But today I was at my lws and asked the salesman about it and all he could say was hypertherm this and hypertherm that. He said it was better. When I asked him why he didnt really give me a straight answer on a huge advantage over the hypertherm. My question to everybody on welding web is what is this huge difference? I personally like the cutmaster better but to be fair I must say i have never cut with a hypertherm this new. I understand the PM45 is a good machine but i dont like the safety trigger, the front control panel, or how the power switch is on the back(it is right?). So what am I missing that makes it so much better?
Reply:Hypertherm spends more on quality control and R&D than anybody.  They are an employee owned company that has a no lay-off policy.  There after sale product support and tech line are the best in the industry.  I have consistently run my PM 1000 G3 at it's max capability on my CNC table and it has never missed a lick in over 5 yrars.  Amp for amp the Hyperterm has higher energy density than anybody else.  So you get a cleaner faster cut with the same or lower amps.  They have fine cut consumables for intricate or thin work and have a unique interchange system.  Plus the kicker is they have a Jim Colt.  Best rep there is who will help you no matter what kind of machine you have.  He's forgotten more than I will ever know about Plasma.  For the money you get expertize, value, power and support.  I'll never take my plasma money anywhere else.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:The Cutmaster 52 has slightly more cutting power than the PM45. The cutmaster 52 will cost you a few hundread dollars less (in general) than the pm45 and the consumables for the cutmaster 52 are slightly cheaper as well.The cutmaster 52 uses a start cartrige in the torch and I dont believe the pm 45 uses a start cartrige. The downfall of this is the start cartrige will need to be replaced as it it considerd a consumable. I ran my cutmaster 52 hard for a year and a half before I had to replace my start cartrige for the first time. I have been told that the comsumables should last longer with the pm45  but I have not  verified that myself. I like the fact that the cm 52 has a built in pressure regulator and small air/water filer.I have no complaints with my cm 52 and been very happy with it's performance. I use my CM52 on my cnc table and manualy in the shop as well.Last edited by snoeproe; 03-23-2012 at 10:19 AM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I have used and tested both the CM52 and the PM45. At about the same price there are a few things to consider.CM52 rated 60amps---     --PM45 rated 45amps   "         "     1 1/4"                      "       "        1"   "       Weight  43+lbs               "    Weight 37lbs   "   4 yr  warranty                       "   3 yr warrantymade in Mexio                                Engineered and assembled in the USA(by us workers/owners)Its your call but I am leaning to the Gray oneLast edited by mechanic416; 03-23-2012 at 10:29 AM.Reason: dhwww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Thanks for all the help guys!  I used the 52 again today and it makes cuts that are fantastic when cutting by hand. It just seems like a great machine. I cut aluminum and steel today and it just impresses me. I dont know why but I just seem to like it the most even though I have no experience with a hypertherm. Also the Start Cartridge doesnt bother me too much. $38 for one every 18 months isnt a big deal. Anybody have a PM45 they want to ship me to get a side by side test?
Reply:I had the same decision recently and chose the Hypertherm 45.  Using amps as a gauge of cutting power for plasma cutters is not correct.  The correct way to measure cutting power is in watts (amps x volts).  So, based on amps, it would appear that the TD 52 makes 33% more power (60 amps vs. 45 amps).  But, the PM45 make 5,940 watts (45 amps x 132 volts) and the TD 52 makes 6,240 watts (60 amps x 104 volts) ,which is 5% more power.  In my book, they are roughly equal and cost the same.  Since I have always wanted a Hypertherm machine, that is the way I went.  But, I think both the Thermal Dynamics and Hypertherm machines are at the top of their class.Lincoln Powermig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Thermal Arc 161SOxweld 24R OA TorchStill Looking for an Old Round Top Idealarc 250
Reply:I totally agree with Bob in post #1. Hypertherm!
Reply:i like the hugeeeee roll bar and the big a$$ plastic vented video gameing case . WTF's in ther?  Im not down with internal water trap and regulator though.  Not professional to me. They have to be serviced frequently, hard enough inside a refrigerated air dryer , and on the walls is easy enough...so why do i want another hard to reach one to service.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Are these the biggest units you can put on a 50 amp 240V breaker?  I have been looking into the same thing, however if the cutmaster 82, or PM65 will work on a 50 amp breaker, I have the same question between them.  Is it the same arguments between the 82 & 65?   Hope I'm not derailing, I can start a new thread if the OP wants, I just figured its somewhat relevant.Millermatic 252 w/spoolmate 200Miller 250 DialarcLincoln 180 mig pakLincoln mig pak 100Hypertherm Powermax 65Precision Plasma Patriot 4x8 CNC tableEverlast 250ex TIGOxy-acet rig10"x18" Modern BandsawModern 14x40 Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by P-JAre these the biggest units you can put on a 50 amp 240V breaker?  I have been looking into the same thing, however if the cutmaster 82, or PM65 will work on a 50 amp breaker, I have the same question between them.  Is it the same arguments between the 82 & 65?   Hope I'm not derailing, I can start a new thread if the OP wants, I just figured its somewhat relevant.
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldi like the hugeeeee roll bar and the big a$$ plastic vented video gameing case . WTF's in ther?  Im not down with internal water trap and regulator though.  Not professional to me. They have to be serviced frequently, hard enough inside a refrigerated air dryer , and on the walls is easy enough...so why do i want another hard to reach one to service.
Reply:The PM45 has and internal self draining water trap too.
Reply:NECHEVYGUY,Not sure why you posted.From your first post, it sounded like you already had your mind made up.Were you simply looking for other posters to "confirm" your decision?Just buy the dang TD.  After all, it's your money and you're the one who's going to be doing the cutting.From a Big Hypertherm FanSyncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Double postSyncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I posted to make an attempt to find out if there was any differences in quality worth noting with these 2 machines. If you dont like it dont read it. Simple solution.
Reply:The Powermax65 draws 44 amps when operated on its thickest rated material at 240 volts single phase. It should never trip a 50 amp breaker.Amperage draw is based on the output amperage setting as well as the thickness you are cutting.......cut thicker it uses more input amperage.morgaj1 is correct in regards to comparing output power...it is killowatts that cut steel.....not just amperage. Most plasma's are named by marketing people....based on the amperage rating. In my opinion they should be named for their killowatt output rating.  Of course the other factor that determines speed, cut quality and thickness has to do with torch design. The newest Hypertherm torches (as used on the Powermax45, the 65 and 85) use a patented "conical flow" technology that increases the energy density of the arc. Think of it as putting more killowatts into an arc of the same diameter......and you get an idea of how this technology works.More kW, more energy density.....is why the hypertherm units generally can cut the same thickness at faster speeds as compared to other brands units with a higher amperage rating.The Hypertherm units are generally not the lowest price plasma's.....but when you are buying a high technology tool that is expected to last long enough for your kids to inherit....and that uses less consumable parts....is it wise to wory about a few hundred extra in purchase price?Jim Colt Originally Posted by P-JAre these the biggest units you can put on a 50 amp 240V breaker?  I have been looking into the same thing, however if the cutmaster 82, or PM65 will work on a 50 amp breaker, I have the same question between them.  Is it the same arguments between the 82 & 65?   Hope I'm not derailing, I can start a new thread if the OP wants, I just figured its somewhat relevant.
Reply:A lot of welding distributors have learned (over the last 30 years or so) that when they sell a Hypertherm they have happier customers.....because the units have proven to be robust, reliable, and they cut as advertised. On top of that the factory support with the Hypertherm units is pretty highly regarded...that is generally why you hear the salesman talk them up. Of course...personal preferences should determine which one you like best. Try the Hypertherm and the Thermal....if you like the Thermal better.....then there you go!  I know which one I would pick....but I admit that I may be a bit biased.Best regards, Jim Colt, Hypertherm Originally Posted by NECHEVYGUYOkay guys obviously im looking into a plasma cutter. I have used several Thermal Dynamics like the Cutmaster 101 and 52, and I must say, I am in love with the 52. But today I was at my lws and asked the salesman about it and all he could say was hypertherm this and hypertherm that. He said it was better. When I asked him why he didnt really give me a straight answer on a huge advantage over the hypertherm. My question to everybody on welding web is what is this huge difference? I personally like the cutmaster better but to be fair I must say i have never cut with a hypertherm this new. I understand the PM45 is a good machine but i dont like the safety trigger, the front control panel, or how the power switch is on the back(it is right?). So what am I missing that makes it so much better?
Reply:I had the same dilema last year when I was trying to decide which cutter to add to my Torchmate.I looked at the Hypertherm, Thermal Dynamics and, the Longiveity. After much deliberation, and conversations with users of all types of machines, I settled on the Hypertherm Powermax 45.I have had it running on and off my Torchmate table for over a year, and have never had one issue.I love my PM45!Miller Synchrowave 180 SDLincoln PowerMig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Torchmate 2x2Victor O/A