square holes

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I was doing square holes for carraige bolts yesterday, and I got through them but there has to be a better way, I drilled the holes cut with a jig saw into the corners, then finished them up with a square file.My Di Acro punch is only 2 ton so a 7/16 hole in 1/8 plate won't work. My 30 ton bliss punch press would do it, but so not worth the effort for 6 ea holes ( although if I was doing a bunch of these I would set that up with 1/4 to 1/2 puches that were interchagable).I know a broach would do it also, but its kind of a specialty tool that wouldn't get enough use to buy.So is there a easier simpler way? I know they don't make metal mortise chisels. Is there a god way to do the once in a while small square holes?
Reply:I don't know if it's a good way or not. I made a tapered square swage for my press. Tapers from a dull point to about 1 inch in 2 inches distance. Drill your hole and swage it out on the press. Center it over a slightly larger hole as a backer. Works for me. Works up to about 1/4", great on 1/8th" stuff."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:If i can find the adapter that I made a while back to chuck a square file into a sawzall ill take a pic of it. It burned up files fairly quickly but it worked great. I just drilled a hole big enough to get the file in and worked it from there with the sawzall.
Reply:You just need a square drill bit. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:probably not a good way to do this but when i am working outside if i run in to a situation where i have to set some carriage bolts i will often drill a hole just slightly smaller than the diagonal of the square.then pull it in when i set the nut.   in wood i don't bother at all; but this will also work with aluminum and steel.  though with the steel you'll have to lay into sometimes.http://www.coburnmyers.com/adobe-fil...iage-bolts.pdf
Reply:I use to have a set of different size square drifts, I'd drill a hole real close to the size I needed, heat around the hole, and drive the square drift in the hole. Come to think about it, wonder what happened to all those drifts.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Ironworker with a square punch, or an Enerpack portable punch with a square punch in the field.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingIronworker with a square punch, or an Enerpack portable punch with a square punch in the field.
Reply:Here, check these outhttp://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...ail&FORM=VIRE7[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5AzbDJ7KYI[/ame]http://www.bing.com/search?q=U+tube+...c=IE-SearchBox
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingIronworker with a square punch, or an Enerpack portable punch with a square punch in the field.
Reply:Yea, i thought it was a joke at first, but there is a SQUARE hole drill bit, been out for years, I have never seen the holes they make though....
Reply:Normally i would punch them square but since that isn't an option, I would drill them slightly under size then use the nut to pull them into the holes and bite.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:just another video of the square drilling bits in action.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3pDMP7IsE[/ame]
Reply:Maybe a stupid question...I can see on the video BD1 posted about the way a square hole is drilled how one would orient the square, but on the rest of these I'm left wondering...is there a way to orient the square hole?  I realize on carriage bolt holes it might not matter but having a bunch of out-of-alignment square holes would look like bad form to anyone who didn't know why it was that way, regardless of whether or not it actually effected the function...
Reply:Okay I am interested, whats the brand name on that bit attachment? I searched the I net, and found junk adds and wood mortising bits.
Reply:There's some contact info posted in this old thread on PM. Don't know if they're still making them or not.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...s-drill-82334/Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Thanks Irish,I only have 6 more holes to make then I am done, looking backwars I should have just drilled round holes welded in studs, and paddle disked them, been faster and achieved the same goal.How you been?
Reply:this might work. http://roperwhitney.com/punching/2-1011.cfmDepending on throat depth you need.  You can find them used for around $150.
Reply:Like I said I have a Di Acro:It is exactly the same as this on only grey, anyway I was going thhrough the spec's and it is 4 tons not 2, so I will put in a small round bit and see what happens. I have had the best sucess on this press with 16 guage and lighter, so I am not holding my breath.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromLike I said I have a Di Acro:It is exactly the same as this on only grey, anyway I was going thhrough the spec's and it is 4 tons not 2, so I will put in a small round bit and see what happens. I have had the best sucess on this press with 16 guage and lighter, so I am not holding my breath.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromThanks Irish,I only have 6 more holes to make then I am done, looking backwars I should have just drilled round holes welded in studs, and paddle disked them, been faster and achieved the same goal.How you been?
Reply:"  I would probably try making a broach "Not sure that would work its only got 5/8 inch stroke, I got busy today and didn't check out my smaller round punch. Spec's say 1.5 inch hole in 16 guage steel and I have a 2" in it now, I have a 1/4, and 3/8 round ( and rectangles ).Got up on Fleabay looking for dies, lots of them, but only 1 square ( 5/8 ), rectangles up the kazoo though.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschrom"  I would probably try making a broach "Not sure that would work its only got 5/8 inch stroke, I got busy today and didn't check out my smaller round punch. Spec's say 1.5 inch hole in 16 guage steel and I have a 2" in it now, I have a 1/4, and 3/8 round ( and rectangles ).Got up on Fleabay looking for dies, lots of them, but only 1 square ( 5/8 ), rectangles up the kazoo though.
Reply:" I like experimenting and improvising, even if I sometimes don't use my time wisely.  "Me to if I am not busy.I will take a couple of pics tommorrow I have a beetr candidate for a broach, faster, more stroke, and more tonage.
Reply:The roper whitney in the link is 20 tons. It  will do 1/2" through 1/2" steel.  It Is very  fast punching below   3/16" thickness.The better broach candidate, 8-10 tons, 40 hits  per minute (actually its air actuated foot pedal so its more like 15 when you stomp the pedal and really about your foot speed.
Reply:Just an update I put a 1/4 and 3/8 round punch in Di Acro today, and punched 1/8, I don't have a 1/2 punch but my guess after the 3/8 and nibbling the corner off a square with my 2" I would say 1/2 to 5/8 is about max on this press on 1/8 stock. needs more tonnage past that.BTW I finished up the last 6 holes today, went a bit faster than the 1st shot, still did it with a jig saw just learned a couple of tricks, not fast, but considerably faster.Think I will avoid square holes, unless I can get them on my mill and deal with the radiused corners, at least until I can find a square punch or two.
Reply:What about drilling small holes ( say 1/8") in the corners first, then the main hole in the center?  Or maybe (3) 1/16" holes in each corner in a right angle pattern?   Then a bit of filing or jig saw work?Ken
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromI know a broach would do it also, but its kind of a specialty tool that wouldn't get enough use to buy.
Reply:Forhire,Thats interesting I was wondering about the heat treat but thats answered. Curious about the any tool steel comment I would think A1 would be a good choice on this application.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromThats interesting I was wondering about the heat treat but thats answered. Curious about the any tool steel comment I would think A1 would be a good choice on this application.
Reply:Actually after I posted I realised I said A1 and meant A2 ( I have never seen or used A1 ) ...duhI was thinking A2 as it has a better impact resistance, which I would think stay sharp longer." Very careful heat treat " bad for me, something says oven or controlled heat source. I also don't like the two step heat treats they are tricky and easy to mess up.But another thought. Isn't making a punch easier than making the broach? Square bar, lathed to a point, ( or maybe milled to keep it square and cutting ) and a corresponding die, of course I guess you need a broach to make the die ( or an EDM  )
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromActually after I posted I realised I said A1 and meant A2 ( I have never seen or used A1 ) ...duh
Reply:Punch is best for quite thin material, broach is for much deeper holes.  Another way for one off square holes would be a slotting attachment for your mill.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:" the broach would be dead simple"I have a buddy with a surface grinder who owes me a favor, Wonder if he could grind the tip on a punch. I would agree a broach is easier to make, but a punch on my press is about 15 holes a minute, and no way a broach it getting near that ( but its a  more accurate, clean hole ).The die is the issue though it would need to be at leat 3/4 and perfect would be 1-1/8-1-1/4 as it is going to get slammed with 8-20 tons over and over.
Reply:" Punch is best for quite thin material "No arguement, but I could see me doing a lot of 16 guage to 1/4 material holes, and I am not seeing my appliication for deeper other than once in a blue moon ( of course as soon as I say that I will need to make 100 ea 3/4 deep holes )I have seen ( and bought ) impressive punch work up to 1/4 ( not stainless )
Reply:The cheapest way would probably be a die block with regular Iron worker punches that can be bought for less than thirty dollars a set. You would have to make the die block.Then you could punch in a regular Hydraulic press. It would be slow though.  This is why I bought an Iron worker.  Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355just another video of the square drilling bits in action.