truck boom thoughts.....

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Ok Gentleman, let me try and explain my thoughts here.This might take a while, so please be patient with meA friend of mine is wanting a boom built for his two truck.... both of them are 1992 3/4 dodge cummins 4x4.They both have two pad eyes on the front bumper, and a winch.He wants the boom 16' long, made out of aluminum.This might get confusing, so let me try and let the pics explain some.This is pretty much the design.Two pieces of 4" pipe at an A-frame, rungs, cable going to the headache rack, or rear hitch, and some sort of snatch block setup.
Reply:Here's a small version of what it will look like....
Reply:Here's the two trucks.
Reply:How much weight is he expecting to handle with those booms? I would think with the cummins engine those trucks don't have a lot of extra axle capacity left up front. My 94 Dodge 3500 has about 5000lbs on the front end without a load on the bed.
Reply:Here is my rough draft.Thinking 4" shch 40 or 80 alum pipe for the poles, 1/4" vs 3/8" wall thickness.The rungs would be 2" shch 80, and I would take my 2" holesaw and punch a hole in my 4" main poles. Then slip the 2" pipe as rungs in the 4" pipe an inch or two, and then weld them up.Much easier then coping, and is more structural strength, then weld strength.And for my two sets of pad-eyes on the bottom of the pipes, I was thinking of cutting grooves into the pipe, and slipping the flat bar into them, and welding them up.Again, more structural strength, less weld strength required.The flat bar would be 3/8" by 4", with a 1" or 1 1/4" hole for the pin ( I forgot to measure).... I would round off the corners to clear the mounts as the boom goes up and down...I'm still working on trying to figure out the upper section, trying to design the snatch block, and pulley mount....
Reply:Originally Posted by 12V71How much weight is he expecting to handle with those booms? I would think with the cummins engine those trucks don't have a lot of extra axle capacity left up front. My 94 Dodge 3500 has about 5000lbs on the front end without a load on the bed.
Reply:I think its doable, I'm pretty sure you would be good to go with 2and 1/2" sched 80 for a 2000lb load. My first rig had a set of 20' poles made of 2 and 1/2" sched 80 steel pipe that routinely handled 4000lbs+... on the rear of a Chevy C-50. No rungs either, just plated at the top and padeye mounts on the bed. Had a big loop on the top plate for the support cable and another loop on the bottom side plate for a snatch block for the load line. Nothing fancy.
Reply:There is a junkyard around here using a similar setup on both tractors, and pickups for engines and such. They have a tough time keeping tie rod ends together and the ball and socket assembly's seem to part company often. I know on their medium duty chassis there are additional bump stops welded to the axle beam and with a diesel engine hanging, and with movement, they are contacted.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Looks good to me except for the bottom plates, I think they should be thicker or have a bushing of some sort to prevent the hole from wearing out. Having built quite a few aluminum projects I know that that area can be a problem. You don't own a spool gun? Be perfect for this job if you did. Otherwise your plan sounds good to me.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I agree with needing thicker plates on the bottom. Another option may be to weld the plates together with a spacer in the middle and then adding some thinner plates to the sides to make a solid 4 inch section. Then have it turned down to fit inside of the 4 inch pipe. You would then have a weld around the pipe and could put holes in the pipe for plug welds.
Reply:Just out of curiosity whats the benefit to these A-frame designs over a hydraulic telescopic design? I'm sure cost is a big factor but it seems so much more practical to have a miniature boom crane mounted to the bed then have to set up this whole A-frame system every time. Not knocking it, just curious as I have seen a few of these on the forum.www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:I don't know for certain, but seems like the back end of your customer's trucks might get very light with 2000lbs hanging from that A frame boom off the front end.  Did you ask if he plans on driving with a load suspended from the A-Frame?  The bouncing from moving while the frame is carrying a load could create a situation where the frame buckles and collapses.Maybe somebody on here could run some quick calculations and double check that the pipe you plan on using is strong enough for the task.Incidentally, why aluminum?  weight savings?  corrosion resistance?  or some other reason?Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:You could put a heavy duty trailer jack on the bumper to take weight off the spring's.
Reply:The only advantage of having the boom on the front is visibility and a little easier manipulation.  The disadvantages are many.  As others have mentioned, the Dodge front end capacity with a diesel is marginal at best.  Any additional weight is going to break something immediately if not sooner.  The 2,000 lbs capacity? is that at the bumper or at what angle of the boom?  Keep in mind that lessening the angle of the boom multiplies the weight at the bumper attachment.  Look at the weight scale on any crane.  You will see that a six thousand pound lift rating on a boom is about 80 degrees.  At 45 it's less than half that.I see it as a campfire idea.  You know, one of those world changing things that originate over a campfire and way too much adult beverage.life is good
Reply:First off I wonder about how well the bumpers are mounted.  Next problem is the frame tends to break on those right behind the steering box without this kind of load on them.Third as already stated the front end is overloaded just carrying the engine. Fourth. What's on the back of the truck? I had my front wheels off the ground a while back with a 4,000lb load. I've got the heavy engine, and full super heavy welding bed to help hold me down.Fifth. I agree with why aluminum? What you're making is a LOT heavier than what I've got on my truck which I've lifted 4,000lbs with. Six. Why the cross pieces on the frame? They just make it heavier, harder to stow, and harder to hook up.   I see the reason why people want the poles on the front. It does make it easier to move the load. But there's a very good reason the vast majority of gin poles are on the back of the truck.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by BrooklynBravestJust out of curiosity whats the benefit to these A-frame designs over a hydraulic telescopic design? I'm sure cost is a big factor but it seems so much more practical to have a miniature boom crane mounted to the bed then have to set up this whole A-frame system every time. Not knocking it, just curious as I have seen a few of these on the forum.
Reply:I would put it on the back not the frontI would use steelIf you do it out of Al, by the time you use material that is robust enough, your weight advantage is down and the costs are probably way more than he wants to spend.
Reply:You asked for thoughts...........well, here's a thought............forget itBut you'll do it anywayIt's a wonder the front end doesn't collapse on those two gems, got enough crap hanging on the bumpers alreadyBe sure and update us with pics when you do it  Cause you know you're gonna do it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I would suggest using these for the mounting points.  Any ag equipment dealer should have then in stock.  We did when I worked at John Deere.Also agree don't put it on the front. Or get a deuce and a half and do like the pic.   The engine is the counter weight.  You got nothing on the rear of a dodge to keep from doing an endo. Attached ImagesLast edited by soutthpaw; 10-27-2014 at 01:31 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Gentleman, Thanks for all the advice.This might take some more time.I will have to talk to the guy, and see if he would go to steel.
Reply:The old Dodge power wagons W?? had front mounted gin poles  but they were a hell of a lot more truck the the diesel tin lizzys they sell now . so put it where he wants it .How long he lives is up to him &god
Reply:I have an old Powerwagon, one of the real ones.  Old W-200.  Built in 1978.  400cid, full time FWD, 3.93 rears , NP435 tranny, NP203 transfer case.  It's done a lot of work over the years.  Semi retired now, but still on the road.And I still wouldn't do harm to this old girl by mounting this crap on the front end. Just sayin'"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Old guys have all the cool old stuff"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Had a great tutorial, old guy to new kid, thing writ up, and the lightning knocked it out.  Do it tomorrow if the weather holdsLike a kid would listen anyhow"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammHad a great tutorial, old guy to new kid, thing writ up, and the lightning knocked it out.  Do it tomorrow if the weather holdsLike a kid would listen anyhowThe only reason I haven't yet, is because besides making me feel good all over, where would it get me?Your a character Uncle Samm....
Reply:Samm sorry to hear about the lightning.  We have daily brownouts here (though not nearly as bad as lightning strikes I would imagine) so I put a UPS on electronics I don't want to have to replace every two years or less.  May seem like a lot of money for a battery backup but it pays for itself if you've got bad power damaging electronics.  I started doing it after losing hard drives in computers, early failure in modems, early failure in set top boxes, etc.  Helped a lot.Cyberpower UPS - LCD Display 8-Outlet RJ11/RJ45/Coax Tower USB  Link: http://amzn.com/B000FBK3QKAKweldshop hope you don't mind the brief OT.  Good luck with your project.Last edited by el bob; 10-28-2014 at 10:16 AM.
Reply:We used that same basic design on anchor scows. One thing I would think about using, is a Tommy Moore block at the tip of the boom.  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Yea but are they really worth $900 or does Sookum make a smaller cheaper one ?
Reply:I've seen them in different sizes. Some I could pick up with one hand, others I couldn't pick up on my best day. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DYou could put a heavy duty trailer jack on the bumper to take weight off the spring's.
Reply:It's pretty hard to move the load with the front gin poles when you have jacks down!!
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcIt's pretty hard to move the load with the front gin poles when you have jacks down!!
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcIt's pretty hard to move the load with the front gin poles when you have jacks down!!
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopWheels on the bottom of the jacks...And shock absorbers for the rough ground....
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammOld guys have all the cool old stuff
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopWheels on the bottom of the jacks...
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYears ago I was removing all the storage racks in a International Harvester factory in South Oakland California. The company had a small hydraulic crane with solid forklift tires on the bottom of the out riggers. When I seen that I just laughed, but you know it worked really well on the concrete floor.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburSam,  did you buy that Power Wagon new?  How old were you then?Gas stations are not close enough together where you live to drive that beast are they?