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I have a guy wanting a set of ramps like thesehttp://www.pjtrailers.com/options/monster-ramps/I have no idea how much to charge its all 3/16" plate with angle runners then hinge pipe I figure $400 materials and $200 to build it? this sound fair
Reply:I'd call your lws and get a ball park on materials then add a little mark up to cover your gas, filler,grinding wheels, electricity and so on. Normally I figure what it will cost me to build total, then add about 30-50%. That's material.As far as labor, $200 sounds like a brother in law deal! I wouldn't touch it for less than $400-500 labor if it only took me a day or so, all depends on your available tools for the job and experience level.Hope this helps a little! I've learned to never sell yourself short because it always comes out of your wallet in the end!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Just looked those ramps up, and realized you can buy them for $650. Depending on shipping (if any) that may not leave you much profit after buying materials and building them from scratch unless you can offer a better product for a bit more $..Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:That's 6-8 hours easy to do those if you've done a bunch of ramps and have the equipment to do it fast. Could easy be 2 days if your going to use a chop saw and stick weld it. I can't imagine you can work for less than $50.00/hr and pay for electricity, consumables, and replace your equipment. Ramps are not cheap to build. They can easy run 50% the cost of the basic trailer frame cost. Lots of cuts, welds, and fabricating to get the pivots, arms to jold them up and such. If they don't fold up then you have to fab some sort of carrier. Don't under bid it unless you really like the guy.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99Just looked those ramps up, and realized you can buy them for $650. Depending on shipping (if any) that may not leave you much profit after buying materials and building them from scratch unless you can offer a better product for a bit more $..
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99I'd call your lws and get a ball park on materials then add a little mark up to cover your gas, filler,grinding wheels, electricity and so on. Normally I figure what it will cost me to build total, then add about 30-50%. That's material.As far as labor, $200 sounds like a brother in law deal! I wouldn't touch it for less than $400-500 labor if it only took me a day or so, all depends on your available tools for the job and experience level.Hope this helps a little! I've learned to never sell yourself short because it always comes out of your wallet in the end!
Reply:PJ says they can't be added to an existing trailer. Have to be ordered with a trailer. Since you are fabricating them anything is possible. I'll bet there is a fairly steep learning curve on these, they are heavy so they have to be balanced just right.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Please keep us informed as to how much time you end up with. I think you are way under on your estimate, but if you make it that will be good. Don't forget painting time too, be over an hour there. Pics of the process would be great too.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Say's they're spring loaded to make it easier to lift. You have the geometry experience to get this part right?Measure with a micrometre, mark with chalk, cut with a torch.Never force anything...just get a bigger hammer.RoyOld Airco buzz box approx 1974Lincoln mig pack 15Lincoln 175 square wave1954 9" south bend lathe
Reply:Personally, I wouldn't even look at the job for less than $800.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:I want $1,200 for my opinion about them. Ha-ha.Are you painting them? Priming them? Etching them. Most stuff like that you use etching primer, unless you sandblast off the mill scale. That paint operation, with masks, filters, paint and cleanup or sand blasting, is a $500 job in itself even if you did it everyday. If I was setup to do that, if I did something similar to that, I would want $2,500 bucks minimum. It is the same as a car from a dealer, verses a custom car. Stock kitchen cabinets verses custom made cabinets. They want to sell trailers not just the complicated ramp. I used to make steel basement entry doors for the company I worked for. Two guys could fabricate a set of those basement doors, before lunch, we would get about $650 installed 15 years ago, installation was a half hour two guys. Material was maybe $100 back then. So you do what you like, but I think you are taking on a monster build there. I remember a couple basement doors that needed special hinges, they cost the shop money. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by jon1996I seen that also but it said $650 plus the cost of the original ramps
Reply:I admire your faith in yourself dude, really I do. However, I would like to throw out for your consideration:-With nothing to copy measurements from it will take 4 hrs min to go get measurements of trailer and sketch one ramp out.-each ramp taking a 4x8x3/16 sheet at 7.65#'s =245# plus 1.5"x1.5"x3/16"x 50' @ 1.8#'s=90# giving approx weight of 350#'s per ramp-this amount of weight will require @ 8 of those $35 springs and (6) 5/8" hinges burned out plus 8' of 1 1/4" bar = @$400-with a sketch, 8 hrs to cut and weld with a helper to lay off and help square up-cheap paint, primer and thinner $150 and a day to do it-allow 8 hrs to install pre-burned hinges to trailer and paint and install ramps-misc steel for handles and keepers $100Honestly kid I'm thinking $1100 min for material and 28 hrs min. labor if your helper is free and everything goes well. Assuming you have something to lift those heavy things.Good Luck!Lincoln Electric:Ranger GXT 250SA-200LN-25Pro MiG 256Pro Mig 180Esab CV 251Invertec 160Victor Torches
Reply:Why not get your friend to buy the materials to your spec and then charge him either a flat rate or hourly with a little bit added on for consumables and electricity? I'm sure that this kind of arrangement will be good for both of you and keep it financially realistic.When a welder tells you to "stick it", what do they really mean?"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Reply:Having the customer/friend buy the materials is a good idea and does help tremendously for them to understand how much stuff actually costs. Then it is also out of your hands for the pricing, just tell him what you need.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburI admire your faith in yourself dude, really I do. However, I would like to throw out for your consideration:-With nothing to copy measurements from it will take 4 hrs min to go get measurements of trailer and sketch one ramp out.-each ramp taking a 4x8x3/16 sheet at 7.65#'s =245# plus 1.5"x1.5"x3/16"x 50' @ 1.8#'s=90# giving approx weight of 350#'s per ramp-this amount of weight will require @ 8 of those $35 springs and (6) 5/8" hinges burned out plus 8' of 1 1/4" bar = @$400-with a sketch, 8 hrs to cut and weld with a helper to lay off and help square up-cheap paint, primer and thinner $150 and a day to do it-allow 8 hrs to install pre-burned hinges to trailer and paint and install ramps-misc steel for handles and keepers $100Honestly kid I'm thinking $1100 min for material and 28 hrs min. labor if your helper is free and everything goes well. Assuming you have something to lift those heavy things.Good Luck!
Reply:Little update, I called and got prices on the ramps from PJ they were 1350 for the set, then labor for me putting them on, so I priced the job complete for $1000 he didnt like that so now I will be doing a crank up Dove tail, just the center of the dove, basically a 2x2 Angle bed that will raise with a Trailer jack from the side, and have manual legs drop to hold it, I proced that job at $600 and he agreeded, Im thinking a hour to cut all his inner dove out with plasma and prep, then 4 Hrs to build the bed, I will only make $300 in labor but I have a full time job that pays well and this is just for exercise and hood time, I will keep this thread updated as I go, I really appreciate the comments tho, helps me learn
Reply:I think you just jumped from the pot to the fire, but I've done a lot of tip up beavertails and several hydraulic tails so if you want I'll give any help I can. You could start with a better description of what you have in mind with maybe a drawing.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCWow!!! 28 hrs??? What are ya doing? sleeping on the job? I also don't think it would be feasible to make for any less then a grand, but this price it like this and you'll never get work.
Reply:Originally Posted by jon1996Little update, I called and got prices on the ramps from PJ they were 1350 for the set, then labor for me putting them on, so I priced the job complete for $1000 he didnt like that so now I will be doing a crank up Dove tail, just the center of the dove, basically a 2x2 Angle bed that will raise with a Trailer jack from the side, and have manual legs drop to hold it, I proced that job at $600 and he agreeded, Im thinking a hour to cut all his inner dove out with plasma and prep, then 4 Hrs to build the bed, I will only make $300 in labor but I have a full time job that pays well and this is just for exercise and hood time, I will keep this thread updated as I go, I really appreciate the comments tho, helps me learn
Reply:If it was $405 in materials and it was basic like it looks. Doubling materials comes close to minimum. ($810). If there is anything fancy like automotive paint or special hinges that has to be taken into consideration. Usually if you take time to price every item it will probably come out higher.
Reply:Originally Posted by jon1996Little update, I called and got prices on the ramps from PJ they were 1350 for the set, then labor for me putting them on, so I priced the job complete for $1000 he didnt like that so now I will be doing a crank up Dove tail, just the center of the dove, basically a 2x2 Angle bed that will raise with a Trailer jack from the side, and have manual legs drop to hold it, I proced that job at $600 and he agreeded, Im thinking a hour to cut all his inner dove out with plasma and prep, then 4 Hrs to build the bed, I will only make $300 in labor but I have a full time job that pays well and this is just for exercise and hood time, I will keep this thread updated as I go, I really appreciate the comments tho, helps me learn
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburJust curious Jon1996, did the price of $1350 include hinge material and springs for attaching to the trailer?
Reply:Good price.Good luck with your new plans. Hope it all works as you guys have envisioned. Post a few photos as things progress. I like the idea and would like to see it working.Lincoln Electric:Ranger GXT 250SA-200LN-25Pro MiG 256Pro Mig 180Esab CV 251Invertec 160Victor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjI think you just jumped from the pot to the fire, but I've done a lot of tip up beavertails and several hydraulic tails so if you want I'll give any help I can. You could start with a better description of what you have in mind with maybe a drawing.Originally Posted by welderjI think you just jumped from the pot to the fire, but I've done a lot of tip up beavertails and several hydraulic tails so if you want I'll give any help I can. You could start with a better description of what you have in mind with maybe a drawing.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburI hope you're both happy when the job is done. We've all had to learn when its time to go fishin'.You may want to call Brian C for a quote. You could sub it out to him and probably make 20%.
Reply:Originally Posted by jon1996My plan right now is, cut all his center out, clean and prep, build the new one with 2x2x1/4" angle, that's frame and runners with center supports, I have 3 10" greaseable barrel hinges for the front pivot, I'm going to build a support for a 2,000lb side wind trailer jack in the center, extending the handle with 3/8" cold roll thru the side of the doce frame with a handle on the outside, it will raise until it reaches limit chains I am mouthing to stop it at level position, it will have support legs around it to be pinned in while up, what's ur opinion on this
Reply:Yes thats the same thing im going for, Guy said he is losing out on bales by having the dove so he wanted a flat spot, I tried to tell him this was better than the monster ramps from the get go but I had to prove to him I guess, but thanks for sharing
Reply:I did most of my beavertails like that. Works great. Don't use greasable hinges tho, they won't get greased and will likely sieze. I run my top tube all the way across a the cut a piece of shaft about 8-12" long that fits inside for each side with a flat across one end. Just stick the shaft in the tube and bolt the flat to the side rail and you have a reliable and strong hinge. Make sure the tube rests on the frame so the hinge doesn't carry the weight.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburIs that $650 each or for the set?
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburI admire your faith in yourself dude, really I do. However, I would like to throw out for your consideration:-With nothing to copy measurements from it will take 4 hrs min to go get measurements of trailer and sketch one ramp out.-each ramp taking a 4x8x3/16 sheet at 7.65#'s =245# plus 1.5"x1.5"x3/16"x 50' @ 1.8#'s=90# giving approx weight of 350#'s per ramp-this amount of weight will require @ 8 of those $35 springs and (6) 5/8" hinges burned out plus 8' of 1 1/4" bar = @$400-with a sketch, 8 hrs to cut and weld with a helper to lay off and help square up-cheap paint, primer and thinner $150 and a day to do it-allow 8 hrs to install pre-burned hinges to trailer and paint and install ramps-misc steel for handles and keepers $100Honestly kid I'm thinking $1100 min for material and 28 hrs min. labor if your helper is free and everything goes well. Assuming you have something to lift those heavy things.Good Luck!
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickI would have to agree, after you add up all the material, shipping, or driving to get the stuff, to gather the material to return or eat the material that did not work out, you are looking at $1,100 in material. Because it is a prototype, unless everything works out as planned and I do not see how, I would figure a week with one guy, and occasionally grabbing a guy or guys for test fit ups or assembly. Not that you will be working steady for that week, but rather you will be changing things up, waiting for an idea, or the customer to make a decision, or as the jack bends something, and you figure how to shore it up. But if you think this is something that will bring future work or catch on, or keep you afloat, by all means do not let me seem negative. I have done that and it usually works out. If you have the sizes and wish to see if it will work, I can draw it up in about 10 minutes for you, and move it on the hinges, to see if it will work as expected. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCSo you figure,$ 1100 in material, $1200 for your opinion ( your other post),and Excalibur's 28 hrs. of fab work, both you guys are a way to pricey in the real world!
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburGone Fishin'!
Reply:You may not get the job, but labor wise the cost seems reasonable. Around here I'd expect to see welding labor prices between $50-100 an hour depending on the shop, and maybe a bit more if you have to go to the work. For 28 hours of work, the price breaks down to about $43 an hour, a bit less than I'd honestly expect.I see it all the time with customers who expect the labor to be almost nothing. If you are adding in insurance, overhead and so on, it's almost impossible to make any money below $50/hour on average. Even at that rate I have a minimum of $250 / job many times with the exception of really good customers or if I can tag the job onto work I'm already doing in the area. Otherwise I'm not making anything for my time and effort.I see plenty of guys who do side work for peanuts. In almost every case they are loosing money. They figure in all the big items like rod and steel, but forget the paint, sanding disks and grinding wheels, mig tips and nuts and bolts. Add those in and all of a sudden that $100 you got paid ends up being $35 or in many cases a negative. We haven't even figured in gasoline if you have to deliver, wear on the vehicle and vehicle expenses, phone costs, electric, insurance ( You do have insurance right?)...You are paying for all those other things whether you realize it or not. You are just fooling yourself into believing you are turning a profit when in reality you are paying money to do work for someone else, rather than getting paid. It's tough to compete with a company who is set up to do things like this bulk. They have all the right tools to cut labor time at every step of the process. Added cost to paint the ramp is negligible if you are already painting the whole trailer. Cost of steel is drastically reduced if you buy it by the truck load, same with all the other materials. Those small savings add up fast..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCYou might as well go fishing, cause you likely wouldn't get that job! (Nice looking fish!)
Reply:To this don't forget to add the time to talk to the customer, which on a job like this will be well over an hour alone by the time you talk about the job before and get paid and listen to praise or bi***ing after. People not in a retail type business rarely realise how much time that takes.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburGone Fishin'!
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickI don't know if you saw the part about $650 for a set of replacement basement doors, fifteen years ago. Some people would say that is high today, others used to say how do you do it for that money? Back then. The real world breaks, wears, and rusts my stuff my tools my supplies. I lose tools the guys lose tools. Suddenly I cannot get parts for a older break, welder or shear. I run into a customer that did not have the money and knew he did not have the money before I started his job. Someone other then me, or the boss, has to pay for this, because that is part of the job unfortunately. I have done the superman thing, its a long hard road down. If you are in a bind and you rob Peter to pay Paul that is your gamble. But the real world requires you to charge what we are saying to charge. Or the real world eats you up, if only at the end, when you have let your friends and or family down, while you fiddled with your hobby. My boss pays the union $78 an hour for me. I end up with $31.50 gross, plus great health care, the ex gets $124 a week and my son has lived with me for the last 11 years. There are union dues, taxes social security. When all is said and done, I get a check for about $600 I have to have my own tools and I have to pay for transportation to the city. Either gas or train fare. Train fare is $25 a day and at least $5 for subway. It is a dog eat dog world out there. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCYa and in the real world you suck it up! That's life, tools wear out, parts break, that why you charge what you charge. Think the customer wants to hear about your whining about 'how tough you got it".
Reply:How did she get the fish, did it get caught between her butt cheeks and die? What a way to go! Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749What fish??????
Reply:Back to the task. This is why this is not the job you want to fool with for a few bucks. Add keeping up your computer and Cadd software. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by jon1996I have a guy wanting a set of ramps like thesehttp://www.pjtrailers.com/options/monster-ramps/I have no idea how much to charge its all 3/16" plate with angle runners then hinge pipe I figure $400 materials and $200 to build it? this sound fair
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickBack to the task. This is why this is not the job you want to fool with for a few bucks. Add keeping up your computer and Cadd software. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveExcellent video
Reply:Thank you William McCormick for the great video, this forum has a wealth of knowledge for a home hobbist like me, But in on of my earlier posts I talked about the hinge they sell premade for $116, here is a picture of itI asked several times if thats the correct price, because no way could I buy the 4 springs, round bar, cut out the hinges with my plasma and assemble for that price, whats your opinion, unless the trailer factory gets stuff for free I dont see it
Reply:Great video William. Thanks for sharing. Are they attaching a hydraulic cylinder to their ramp(P.J.s) to raise and lower the complete beavertail? jon1966 I am like you, seems like a lot of material and workman ship for the hinge assemble for the price. Unless they are jigging everything and building a lot of them at a time. Good luck on those ramps. Keep us posted.
Reply:Just a thought. Are the hinges castings? I couldn't really tell from the photo? Years ago at our fab shop we had some items that we designed and had cast to a specific spec for some of the products that we manufactured. It cut out a tremendous amount of labor. We had to have the items tested and certified by I think if I remember correct Pittsburg Testing Lab. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:18:47