Trailer build/Idea wanted

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So i picked up a old camper trailer frame today that i'm going to make into a landscape trailer. The trailer is 93" wide with a 14' 6" bed length, it has a 3500 lb axle with electric brakes. The frame is solid and has 0 rot and uses 2x4" 11 ga tubing. So my plan is to use 2x8" pressure treat boards for the floor and make 24" tall steel sides that fold down for loading from the side possible. If you guys have any ideas/ suggestions that you did to your trailer or wish you did to make loading or securing easier. I also plan on building a 4' long back ramp but i'm not sure exactly how to build it, my criteria is it must be light enough to removed easily by 1 person but still strong enough to have a 2000 lb estate tractor driven up it. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:Note that almost all campers use the walls of the camper as part of the structural support.  There is no need for a heavy frame that eats up weight that can be better used for furnishings etc. Lacking the walls which act as a truss, the frame itself will not support the weight the axles might otherwise carry.The vast majority of the time it's not worth bothering with the frame unless you plan to drastically reduce the capacity of the trailer. By the time you try and reinforce what you have, You'd be much farther ahead just scrapping the existing frame and building new from scratch.Also note that standard ACQ treated wood is VERY corrosive to steel, especially when it gets wet. It can eat thru standard framing nails in as little as 6 months. Paint won't greatly reduce this corrosion.  If you read what the PT lumber maker recommends, they want hot dipped galvi fasteners ( electro galvanised isn't thick enough to stop the corrosion), stainless fasteners, or copper. Same goes with flashing. Coated alum rots exceptionally fast, so it's either stainless or copper for the most part..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:11ga tubing is pretty strong.  But the limiter on your trailer probably would be the distance from the axle to the tongue.  It was designed as a light trailer, and was balanced to transfer off a light load to the hitch(hence the setback axle).  The axle is too far back for any kind of heavy load unless it's almost directly over the axle."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If it's just lawnmowers and such........you could get away with expanded metal for flooring.  Some intermediate supports, and you could load it light.  The expanded metal, and the required supports would be lighter than lumber"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:DSW wanted to make sure you saw his opinion twice. I see you have a Lincoln 140 MIG, so your all set with the welding equipment for this project. I wouldn't plan on using those floor supports outside of the frame rails either. Nix the idea of the drop down sides for loading, as you will need all the side support you can  get to strengthen the frame.What's an estate tractor? Got a pic?
Reply:A nice heavy ramp on the back will help offset balance some but be careful not to reduce tongue weight too much.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauDSW wanted to make sure you saw his opinion twice.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauDSW wanted to make sure you saw his opinion twice. I see you have a Lincoln 140 MIG, so your all set with the welding equipment for this project. I wouldn't plan on using those floor supports outside of the frame rails either. Nix the idea of the drop down sides for loading, as you will need all the side support you can  get to strengthen the frame.What's an estate tractor? Got a pic?
Reply:Scrap it and start over. You dont have enough strength there.To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth. This was the ancient law of youth. Old times are past, old days are done, but the law runs true oh little son.Winpower 180 DCSA-200 redfaceXMT-304
Reply:Fresh start in my opinion. And a Lincoln 140 is a little on the small side for a trailer, you could do it but it would be pushing it for the 140 (if you were even going to use it). When we haul our kubota, we put it on a car trailer with a 8000 plus pound capacity. You throw some dirt, and implements on there with a tractor, and it gains weight fast.From what I have seen before, camper trailer axles are on the skinny side, making the deck small, and stability hindered. If you were planning on making a cheap little boat trailer, or snowmobile trailer I would say go for it. But throwing more then 1500-2000 pounds on it and your asking for trouble.Just my opinion.
Reply:Rather than scrap it I would just add a deck to it. Cut off the outside extensions and run full crossmembers over the top with a heavy side rail to help with the frame. Or you could go with non-folding sides as said to get the frame strength you need. You are not too far short on the strength you need, if it was 10 or 11 ft long you would be ok. By using 2x flooring you gain a lot of strength as well. I would just use untreated lumber tho, in my experience it lasts as long and frequently longer than treated on a trailer and has none of the negatives that treated does. Just let it season for a year, then change the oil in your car and paint it with the waste oil and it will last 20 years.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI didn't even spot the 110v mig or I'd have commented on that not really being the best choice of a machine for the job. It can handle 1/8", but you really have to know what you are doing and watch your duty cycle and make sure you are on a dedicated 20 amp outlet without using an extension cord. Anything that saps input power will really hurt you on a project like this. A bigger machine would be better. All of this is assuming you can do code quality welds in all positions, every time.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjJust let it season for a year, then change the oil in your car and paint it with the waste oil and it will last 20 years.
Reply:Okay so  the trailer might move the kubota once or twice a year at the most, I checked kubota website and my guess of 2000 lbs was a little off its 1600 lbs. With you guys mentioning about stiffness issue i'm going to ditch the idea of folding down sides and make stationary ones out of 2x2 1/8" tubing. I'm going to cut of 5" off each side and weld on 2x4" 1/8" tubing. between the existing cross braces i'm going to add 2 1-1/2" 1/8" angle iron. I'm also toying with the idea of chopping off 16" of the rear since it looks to long.Heres a rough sketch of what i'm thinking of. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:If you are buying pressure treated, go to a real lumber yard.   The pressure treated they sell is not the nasty ACQ stuff.    Lowes and Home Depot still sell ACQ,  but most real lumberyards now have a new kind of micronized copper treated wood.    One of the name brands is YellaWood.     It is not corrosive like ACQ and is okay for contact with aluminum, as long as it drains away.   You can tell the difference between the micronized wood and the acq in that the micronized wood is very light colored, with either a yellow or a bluish-green tint.  ACQ (the nasty stuffy) is very dark and is loaded with moisture.        Most any lumberyard that deals with real professional carpenters will carry the new micronized lumber.   DaveThermal Arc  Power-Tech 10/270  stick welderLincoln buzz-boxPurox O/A setupNothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply:Chopping the rear will increase the issue that the axle is too far back. At that point you will have to shift the axle forward. The side frame will add stiffness to your trailer. Down side is that your design breaks the truss at the rear wheels. With it cut like that, it's really worthless. To get full strength out of the idea, the frame needs to run end to end with no interruptions in the top and bottom members. Yours will want to fold right at the rear wheels where the bottom is missing. You'll notice landscape trailers built on this design idea have the wheels outboard of the side frame..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Is the trailer wide enough to get the tractor on between the wheels? If so just put your sides right over the main frame and your problems are solved. I still don't think those welded on extensions outside the frame will be strong enough the way you have sketched it. It would work if you ran new crossmambers over the top of the frame as I said and tied them to your sides or a good side rail. You could still cut and route the side rail around the tire if you plated the bends properly. If you go with sides run crossmembers as close in front and behind the tires as you can and plate the sides with light gauge sheet and then your side design will work.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:So i was talking to my cousin who worked as a trailer mechanic and has build several trailer before and I told him my original plans and he expressed some of the same concerns as you guys like having fold down sides will make the trailer able to flex a lot more then solid sides. So i talked to him about my revised plans and he said it should be good so i drew up what i wanted to build on sketchup. I couldn't be bothered to draw in the back gate or fenders but it will give you guys a good idea of the frame. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:Make sure you can title or register it, or whatever you guys do, before you do any work to it.
Reply:Up here in my province its real easy to register a homebuilt trailer.Hobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:I wish I would have come up with this type of frame when I started building my trailer. I started with a boat trailer with the same size tubing and axle but it's only 68" wide and enclosed it.  I had a Lincoln 215 w/flux core to make the sparks.Jim,I don't mean to be argumentative and cantankerous,but I am getting older and a bit crotchety!Addendum; AND CRANKY
Reply:Originally Posted by f150skidooSo i was talking to my cousin who worked as a trailer mechanic and has build several trailer before and I told him my original plans and he expressed some of the same concerns as you guys like having fold down sides will make the trailer able to flex a lot more then solid sides. So i talked to him about my revised plans and he said it should be good so i drew up what i wanted to build on sketchup. I couldn't be bothered to draw in the back gate or fenders but it will give you guys a good idea of the frame.
Reply:Needs more triangles.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjI still see a potential problem with your design in these areas. This is the critical area that you need to increase strength in. The axle will be pushing up on the main rails here and the sides will be trying to stop that, applying down force on the outside of the rail.In both these areas you should have a full height crossmember between the rails to stop that. Since your main tubes are so thin walled I would also gusset all the corners to spread the force out further so that you don't end up with tearing of your tube sides. Do this both in front and behind the tires and line up your crossmembers with the uprights for your sides. Bring your rear cross member forward to the be inline with that upright as well. You will want both the outer and inner cross members to be the same height as the main in this area to reduce the potential to tear out the sides of the main tube. By using triangle gussets both top and bottom and on both the inner and outer members you should be good. If you want to cut costs one place would be the lower side rail. In your pic you show a fairly large rail there and with the sides to carry the weight it is not necessary to have more than say an angle there, as long as you get it tied to the cross members and uprights well. Since you are building sides, it's the sides that carry the force so each part can be lighter.You may have it planned already but since you didn't show it you also need a tie here. What ever you use for the lower rail will work. This is also a critical part and if I was doing it I would plate the area between the upper and lower rails there with some sheet.
Reply:Originally Posted by f150skidooThanks for the suggestions welderj for some clarification the issues you see in the red circled areas in the first pic. would be solved by adding 2x4 tubing with gussets as cross members in the area where the spring perches are located, correct? I did'nt add a couple things into the drawing that i'm going to do that you touched on in your post. Im going to have sheet metal welded on to the tubing side rails on the full height of the sides which will act like big gussets. Also I am going to bend some tubing to the same shape as the fender that will connect the two bottom side rails together.I would either shorten it or move the axle forward. You need 60% to 70% of the weight forward of the axle. Then I would add structure to the a frame where it passes under the body. Widen it to allow steel frame to pass the tires at the bottom, now that you have a bottom for your truss, offer it some strength with either diagonal struts, or plate the sides with 18 gauge. Find a better idea than PT lumber.
Reply:Okay so I changed some things/ added to the design. On the side bump out/ladder part im going to weld on 1/8" steel over it so i can easily attach bolt on d rings for load securing. I added as welderJ suggested full height gusseted cross members where the spring perches are located. It looks like im going to have a rain day at work on Tuesday so i will probably go and buy all the steel for this project. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauI built a trailer with my Miller Matic 140, posted it on here and never got any negative responses on that build.  I even had it on a 100' extension cord with no problems. It seems that everyone that commented on it, liked it. But then I guess they know that I know what I'm doing with this machine.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...+trailer+build
Reply:Originally Posted by f150skidooOkay so I changed some things/ added to the design. On the side bump out/ladder part im going to weld on 1/8" steel over it so i can easily attach bolt on d rings for load securing. I added as welderJ suggested full height gusseted cross members where the spring perches are located. It looks like im going to have a rain day at work on Tuesday so i will probably go and buy all the steel for this project.
Reply:JFC!!! (you fill in the abbreviation)  You have a 3500lb trailer made to carry a light load along the outside perimeter.  Everything between the main frame, and the outside of the dimension is a cantilever load.Forget about all  the bull**** about axles pressing wherever, and gusseting till the thing weighs more than the axle can carry  The stinkin' axle, the hanger placement, and the surrounding structure was designed to carry 3500lbs..........period.  It obviously held up just fine till you got the trailer.The cantilever can't be adequately addressed in this type of frame, it simply wasn't designed for heavy loads outside the main frame.  To do so would require a traditional stacked design with floor supports on top of the main frame rails.Build it as you originally drew it, and just keep point loads inside the main frame perimeter.  Look at it this way, adding stuff beyond the main frame, even if you have adjoining floor supports on the other side of the cantilever inside the frame, is seriously flawed.  The space created by the inside of the main frame tubing is "air"..........no solid tie to the adjoining members.  It will want to buckle if you load it too heavy near the outside.If you have no concept of basic fabrication, and the forces involved, it's a damn shame that you'll let some goofball, who's only put up an example looking like crushed soda cans for joints, direct your build.  It's also a shame that YOU don't have a good grasp of fabrication.I'm no bonifide expert, but I'm pretty doggone good at what I do, with a zero failure rate.  BECAUSE I LOOK AT INDUSTRY ACCEPTED STANDARDS, AND TRY MY BEST TO ADHERE TO THEM.  Sometimes I vary, but do so with a good deal of experience with the design change.Finish it out like you've thought, and just remember you have a limited use trailer.  If your initial purchase price for the base unit justifies it, with all the added crap you're gonna have to put on it.......................kudo's.  If not......ya need to rethink.  Salvage the running gear, and hitch, then start over with a good purpose built trailer."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:An axle, with brakes, and all the other stuff, generally runs about 500ish or so.  Hitch is about maybe 75ish if it's a good one.So you got just under 600 bucks worth of goodies if you completely scrapped the affair now, and just salvaged the axle.Keep the goodies, and build a good trailer around them"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I second farmersamm, use what you got and remember the load limits .Don't go putting bobcats and a ton of plants  on it , buy carrying a 0 turn and a bunch of blowers and hand tools go with it .At least it is made of tubing and not bent 1/8 c chanal I so many trailers were.. I would put the Tie downs as close to the frame as I could ,minmize the torque on the out side frame. I see you are using a 2'000 lb estate tractor  so put some reinforcement on the ramp where the tires make contact. My self I would run a reinforcement under the A frame  from reciver to the frame. As that design was never ment to have 2'000 pounds on the extreme back end when loadinggxbxc
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammJFC!!! (you fill in the abbreviation)  You have a 3500lb trailer made to carry a light load along the outside perimeter.  Everything between the main frame, and the outside of the dimension is a cantilever load.Forget about all  the bull**** about axles pressing wherever, and gusseting till the thing weighs more than the axle can carry  The stinkin' axle, the hanger placement, and the surrounding structure was designed to carry 3500lbs..........period.  It obviously held up just fine till you got the trailer.The cantilever can't be adequately addressed in this type of frame, it simply wasn't designed for heavy loads outside the main frame.  To do so would require a traditional stacked design with floor supports on top of the main frame rails.Build it as you originally drew it, and just keep point loads inside the main frame perimeter.  Look at it this way, adding stuff beyond the main frame, even if you have adjoining floor supports on the other side of the cantilever inside the frame, is seriously flawed.  The space created by the inside of the main frame tubing is "air"..........no solid tie to the adjoining members.  It will want to buckle if you load it too heavy near the outside.If you have no concept of basic fabrication, and the forces involved, it's a damn shame that you'll let some goofball, who's only put up an example looking like crushed soda cans for joints, direct your build.  It's also a shame that YOU don't have a good grasp of fabrication.I'm no bonifide expert, but I'm pretty doggone good at what I do, with a zero failure rate.  BECAUSE I LOOK AT INDUSTRY ACCEPTED STANDARDS, AND TRY MY BEST TO ADHERE TO THEM.  Sometimes I vary, but do so with a good deal of experience with the design change.Finish it out like you've thought, and just remember you have a limited use trailer.  If your initial purchase price for the base unit justifies it, with all the added crap you're gonna have to put on it.......................kudo's.  If not......ya need to rethink.  Salvage the running gear, and hitch, then start over with a good purpose built trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammJFC!!! (you fill in the abbreviation)  You have a 3500lb trailer made to carry a light load along the outside perimeter.  Everything between the main frame, and the outside of the dimension is a cantilever load.Forget about all  the bull**** about axles pressing wherever, and gusseting till the thing weighs more than the axle can carry  The stinkin' axle, the hanger placement, and the surrounding structure was designed to carry 3500lbs..........period.  It obviously held up just fine till you got the trailer.The cantilever can't be adequately addressed in this type of frame, it simply wasn't designed for heavy loads outside the main frame.  To do so would require a traditional stacked design with floor supports on top of the main frame rails.Build it as you originally drew it, and just keep point loads inside the main frame perimeter.  Look at it this way, adding stuff beyond the main frame, even if you have adjoining floor supports on the other side of the cantilever inside the frame, is seriously flawed.  The space created by the inside of the main frame tubing is "air"..........no solid tie to the adjoining members.  It will want to buckle if you load it too heavy near the outside.If you have no concept of basic fabrication, and the forces involved, it's a damn shame that you'll let some goofball, who's only put up an example looking like crushed soda cans for joints, direct your build.  It's also a shame that YOU don't have a good grasp of fabrication.I'm no bonifide expert, but I'm pretty doggone good at what I do, with a zero failure rate.  BECAUSE I LOOK AT INDUSTRY ACCEPTED STANDARDS, AND TRY MY BEST TO ADHERE TO THEM.  Sometimes I vary, but do so with a good deal of experience with the design change.Finish it out like you've thought, and just remember you have a limited use trailer.  If your initial purchase price for the base unit justifies it, with all the added crap you're gonna have to put on it.......................kudo's.  If not......ya need to rethink.  Salvage the running gear, and hitch, then start over with a good purpose built trailer.
Reply:Well i picked up most of the steel i need for the build today. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:^ FACEPALM! oy. Why did I click on this thread?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammer^ FACEPALM! oy. Why did I click on this thread?
Reply:lol, Samm, that guy in your picture is a rookie. Lol.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:So I started to work on the trailer this afternoon. Since the trailer won't fit in my shop I have to work on it outside in the driveway, So i got it up nice and high so I can weld it in a more comfortable position.So I noticed that the rear bumper had a mouse nest in it. The mouses piss and **** was starting to eat through seam in the tubing. So I cut the old bumper off and through it in the crap pile and welded on some 2x4" tubing. I started to weld out the new bumper and mother nature decided to let the sky's open up so i had to call it a day.Hobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:Originally Posted by f150skidoo...I started to weld out the new bumper and mother nature decided to let the sky's open up so i had to call it a day...
Reply:Here is one I made from an old 15 foot travel trailer, only used for ATV's, stood up well, but plywood is going, need to replace with planking I think.Should add that I added steel crossmembers and beefed it up with more steel and angle iron too, built it before I thought about posting pics on websites, otherwise I would have taken pics showing my mods.It is licensed as having a 2000Lb axle rating, and I took the electric brake system off due to light duty it does, kept the stuff in case I ever feel I need it.Last edited by partsman; 08-14-2014 at 01:07 PM.Reason: Add info
Reply:I don't know how it is there but most states require anything over 3,500lb to have at least one brake axle.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Well some of you guys are going to like this, I decided to get rid of the trailer. After i got the new back part welded on I started to build the side ladder things and realized one sides measurement was 3/4" different then the other. So i started to measure corner to corner of the frame rails and it was 1-3/4" out and the axle is 1-1/4" out to the hitch. So then i realized this thing isn't worth it, So I've cut all the new steel i added to it and cut off all the external bump out parts. I'm just going to throw a 2x8" floor on it, add cheap lights. Move the axle mounts on the springs so i can get it close to square to the hitch, then throw the trailer on Craigslist and see if i can get my money out of it or possibly make a $100.Hobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:You should cut your losses and put none of your own labor in this to add to your liability.
Reply:Okay so now I'm back into a trailer planning stage. So I'm planning on making a 80" x 12' landscape trailer with tandem 5200 lb axles, I'm not sure if this will be strong enough for a 5 ton trailer so I thought i would ask. What I'm thinking of is using 5"x6.7 C channel for the frame rails and the tongue. and using 2x4" 1/8" tubing on 16" centers for the cross member's. I know you guys are going to say this so I through my little 140 mig up for sale on Craigslist. I'm going to buy a bigger welder, I'm looking for something no smaller then a 180.Hobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill
Reply:Originally Posted by f150skidooOkay so now I'm back into a trailer planning stage. So I'm planning on making a 80" x 12' landscape trailer with tandem 5200 lb axles, I'm not sure if this will be strong enough for a 5 ton trailer so I thought i would ask. What I'm thinking of is using 5"x6.7 C channel for the frame rails and the tongue. and using 2x4" 1/8" tubing on 16" centers for the cross member's. I know you guys are going to say this so I through my little 140 mig up for sale on Craigslist. I'm going to buy a bigger welder, I'm looking for something no smaller then a 180.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderj5" channel will be OK since the suspension will take up 6' or so, leaving about 4' in front and 2' in back +/-. Forget the tube for cross members unless you already own it.  Use 3" channel instead, it will be more than strong enough and won't rust out as easy.
Reply:1/8" tube is about the worst thing there is for cross members. It's one thing if the rest of the trailer is made from it, but on a new trailer it's bad. You can buy the channel for $100- 150.00 and have a nice long lasting trailer. Save the tube for another project. Plus combining tube and channel in a trailer creates problems if your not careful.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:use the tubing for the side rails if yo have it and want to use it  also use 2x4  angle for the perimeter  front and side ,long side up. it will keep stuff from sliding of the trailer. Make sure you get brakes on both axles electric or surge, and load range e tires , use a 2 5/16" coupler  some weld on D rings .  Use axle over the  springs, that will help keep the C/G low .Tractor loaders ten to have a high C/G . I think that's all.Last edited by gxbxc; 09-01-2014 at 11:18 PM.
Reply:Oh boy here i go again buying a camper frame. But this time i'm just taking the tandem 3500 lb axles and tires and scraping the rest of the trailer. Attached ImagesHobart IronMan 230Hypertherm 45XP on a CNC table1.5HP 9x42 MillUNIBOR EQ35N Mag Drill