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So 2 weekends ago I'm in Lowes picking up some materials when I spot a guy I've worked for in the past and stop to say hi. He asks me if I still weld and if I'm busy that coming week and want some work.He's doing some chain link fence in a warehouse for secure storage and needs some gates welded up. His fence supplier can't get them done for a few weeks and he needs to get this up ASAP for the customer. He says he's done these before but doesn't have the welder and he'll do all the fab work and all I need to do is weld the gates and posts.I'm not super keen on his fit up or the fact he wants to do all the tacking and wants to use 1/8" 7014 on schedule 20 galvanized pipe. I spend more time cleaning up the mess he makes with burned holes and slag inclusions or trying to bridge 1/4" gaps with the fit up. What the hey he's paying me by the hour plus materials... As frustrating as it is, I just keep telling myself I'm getting paid more to fix his screw ups. I am getting really tired of cutting pipe with a pipe cutter and a pipe wrench as a vise. He says he wants nice straight cuts and I have no problem with that. I'm just wondering what the purpose of nice straight cuts are when the fit up sucks...So far 14 base plates welded to 10' posts and 3 gates welded up. One 5'x 10' gate, one 4' x 10' gate and one 6'x21' cantilevered gate..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I couldn't even find specs for sch 20 pipe less than 8" dia. Is your stuff around 1/8" wall? Somewhere in the sch 5-10 range?Either way, would seem easier just to MIG the crap. Sounds like it sucks"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_schedules.htm"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:A lot of the fence pipe is little more than galvanized exhaust type tubing.
Reply:Nice leathers, Doug!Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'm not super keen on his fit up or the fact he wants to do all the tacking and wants to use 1/8" 7014 on schedule 20 galvanized pipe.
Reply:Looks like the stuff my employer sells. I like the gate stuff the best. All of our stuff is made to order for the unusual sizes, all others we make in quantity monthly.RegardsDave
Reply:I would have said it's my way or the highway. You can't work effectively without tools or equipment. I would have brought my own tools , tripod, and stands before I would work on the slab. That just sucks. You are the welder , you decide what process to use. I did that stuff on the side many years ago. As I learned from it, I dictated how I was going to do it. Sure you can fill gaps and make do with poor fit ups but it is time and uncalled for. Quality and professional work is the only way to go. Good luck.
Reply:Hey, he's getting paid by the hour so I'm sure he is taking the time to make sure the job is done right even though the tooling isn't the most desirable.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireWhy 1/8" 7014? Is that what he already had? Should have given him a box of 3/32 6013 and saved yourself the grief. I'm with Samm... most all that fence stuff in migged. Is that your little miller or his? Is it a Maxstar, or something else?
Reply:Originally Posted by Robert HallNice leathers, Doug!
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI couldn't even find specs for sch 20 pipe less than 8" dia. Is your stuff around 1/8" wall? Somewhere in the sch 5-10 range?Either way, would seem easier just to MIG the crap. Sounds like it sucks
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelHey, he's getting paid by the hour so I'm sure he is taking the time to make sure the job is done right even though the tooling isn't the most desirable.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1 I would have brought my own tools , tripod, and stands before I would work on the slab. That just sucks.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHe made a big deal about needing the gates to be flat and square. Thus he insisted on tacking them on the floor ( even though one still twisted some ). As soon as they got tacked, I got them up on those horses. My back and knees don't do floors if I can avoid it. I'll walk 10' or 15' out of my way to set something down on a box or table so I don't have to bend down and pick it up. I keep a 2'x4' piece of 1/2' plywood and 2 saw horses on the truck full time so I can make a work table it I'm doing anything for any length of time so I can avoid bending down to pick up tools over and over.
Reply:Good point.Lincoln Weldanpower A/C 225 D/C 210 /6kw auxiliary (code 9113 & 9108)Lincoln Weld Pak 100 MigMiller Maxstar 150 TigLincoln Scratch Tig 200 ampMiller 8-VS Suitcase Flux CoreHypertherm Powermax 30Victor Torches / Regulators
Reply:doug; welding over someone else's crappy fits, tacks and welds is very frustrating. been there and done that and it bite's the big one every time. as you say though it's his dime so go with the flow and collect some dough. you did say that this is a secure enclosure so i hope this guy is thinking about adding a roof to this project?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:No roof. The company does fire/storm damage remediation. The fenced off area shown in pict 1 is so they can secure all the dryers/dehumidifiers that they use. Apparently they tend to "walk off" and are very expensive. Gate is wide enough they can get the fork lift straight in and raise up a pallet to pull the dryers off the upper levels of the racking by hand. 2nd area is for their workers to secure large tools like chop saws, flashing brake, and so on.I think mostly all this is to prevent targets of opportunity. You know, one of the guys coming in and grabbing a dryer or two to do a side job drying out a neighbors flooded basement, or grabbing a chop saw for a weekend project. I think a large portion of the rest of the warehouse is for storing customer belongings salvaged from the disaster so access isn't limited to just the guys doing the drying and repair work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You can sure tell he isn't a fenceman. The cage looks unprofessional and hammering joints? Who hammers joints? Not a fenceman for sure.I learned to weld forty plus years ago working with my dad at a fence company in southern California. He was the gateman and most of the gates were made with .065 hot dipped galvanized 1 3/8" pipe. The machine was a Fourney and one setting was too cold and the next was too hot for 3/32 6011. Dad welded it hot and that's what I learned. All the joints were coped with a Fittings that Fit notcher (now Vogel and I have have one). Back then the fence installers would set their posts and the foreman would measure the gate openings including drop. Every gate was custom made. A three foot opening might be 35" or it might be 38-1/2" with one inch right to left drop with left hand hinges. Foreman would enter the gate opening measurements in the gate book and the gate would be ready three days later. They had three installation crews and dad kept up with all the gates plus cut all the posts. All hinge posts were drilled at the shop. Pipe would come in on a semi. No forklift and all of the different sizes of pipe had their own bins.. The bins were H's made of 2 7/8" schedule forty set in concrete. The truck would pull up next to a group of bins. Let's say the pipe was 2 3/8" schedule forty. That would be closest to the saw and the 16 gauge would be the greatest distance from the saw, no forklifts. There were different pieces of pipe that had bent ends for unloading pipe. The pieces made for the bin would be set up so that when the lift (bundle) of pipe was broken the pipe would roll off the truck bed and into that bin.He would cut the posts. Any foreman that cut posts on the job had better have a good explanation why. If he did cut a post because of a rock or concrete in the hole he would always cut the bottom of the post. The reason was the fence were always set for height and line by eye. I still do it that way even today. The pipe came in 21 and 24' lengths. A twenty one foot length will give you two 5' top rail line posts and one six foot top rail line post. So if a job needed to be cut out for six foot top rail line posts there would be three posts cut for every one. Or the 21' foot length could make three no top rail five foot line posts. Top rail posts are four inches shorter than no top rail posts. And every post is figured with two feet in the concrete. One of the industrial fence options was no top rail plus three strands of barbwire. It was the economy option but also the best one for security in my book. Those line posts had three 5/16" holes at the top for attaching the barbwire. First one was two inches down, then six inches down, then ten inches down from the top, four inches a part. When the fence was set the foreman would make sure the holes faced out. The barbwire was attached to the post with common wood staples. Yeah, that's where I learned to attach barbwire to pipe posts with wood staples.Dad had a full plate. He cut the posts, made the gates, and had to do the field welding, old Lincoln pipeliner on a trailer, probably fifty something model. And for the engineering types that get their panties in a wad over welding galvanized, he'll be 89 next March. He will meet us in the Arizona desert with his motorhome in January for three weeks. I'm 66 and still work hard every day and take no pills of any kind. Must be the zinc.The welds were almost 360 degrees, no more than half inch at the bottom of the joint was left open for drainage. When welding sixteen gauge hot dipped galvanized using 3/32" 6011 hot you can't wait for the puddle. You either have it or you don't. He was the best I've ever seen at it.Last edited by wroughtn_harv; 11-25-2014 at 09:09 AM.life is good
Reply:That looks like total suck. My first welding job was at Capitol Wholesale Fence here in Nashville, building custom gates all day. Mostly cantilevers. Built four giant cantilevers for Ft. Knox. They were so big they didn't fit on our table. Had to tack the frames up and hold one end up with the shop crane, and walk around on the table to make most of the welds. Fun times. But everything was migged, we had things notched, and cut our diagonals in with a torch...Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvYou can sure tell he isn't a fenceman. The cage looks unprofessional and hammering joints? Who hammers joints? Not a fenceman for sure.I learned to weld forty plus years ago working with my dad at a fence company in southern California. He was the gateman and most of the gates were made with .065 hot dipped galvanized 1 3/8" pipe. The machine was a Fourney and one setting was too cold and the next was too hot for 3/32 6011. Dad welded it hot and that's what I learned. All the joints were coped with a Fittings that Fit notcher (now Vogel and I have have one). Back then the fence installers would set their posts and the foreman would measure the gate openings including drop. Every gate was custom made. A three foot opening might be 35" or it might be 38-1/2" with one inch right to left drop with left hand hinges. Foreman would enter the gate opening measurements in the gate book and the gate would be ready three days later. They had three installation crews and dad kept up with all the gates plus cut all the posts. All hinge posts were drilled at the shop. Pipe would come in on a semi. No forklift and all of the different sizes of pipe had their own bins.. The bins were H's made of 2 7/8" schedule forty set in concrete. The truck would pull up next to a group of bins. Let's say the pipe was 2 3/8" schedule forty. That would be closest to the saw and the 16 gauge would be the greatest distance from the saw, no forklifts. There were different pieces of pipe that had bent ends for unloading pipe. The pieces made for the bin would be set up so that when the lift (bundle) of pipe was broken the pipe would roll off the truck bed and into that bin.He would cut the posts. Any foreman that cut posts on the job had better have a good explanation why. If he did cut a post because of a rock or concrete in the hole he would always cut the bottom of the post. The reason was the fence were always set for height and line by eye. I still do it that way even today. The pipe came in 21 and 24' lengths. A twenty one foot length will give you two 5' top rail line posts and one six foot top rail line post. So if a job needed to be cut out for six foot top rail line posts there would be three posts cut for every one. Or the 21' foot length could make three no top rail five foot line posts. Top rail posts are four inches shorter than no top rail posts. And every post is figured with two feet in the concrete. One of the industrial fence options was no top rail plus three strands of barbwire. It was the economy option but also the best one for security in my book. Those line posts had three 5/16" holes at the top for attaching the barbwire. First one was two inches down, then six inches down, then ten inches down from the top, four inches a part. When the fence was set the foreman would make sure the holes faced out. The barbwire was attached to the post with common wood staples. Yeah, that's where I learned to attach barbwire to pipe posts with wood staples.Dad had a full plate. He cut the posts, made the gates, and had to do the field welding, old Lincoln pipeliner on a trailer, probably fifty something model. And for the engineering types that get their panties in a wad over welding galvanized, he'll be 89 next March. He will meet us in the Arizona desert with his motorhome in January for three weeks. I'm 66 and still work hard every day and take no pills of any kind. Must be the zinc.The welds were almost 360 degrees, no more than half inch at the bottom of the joint was left open for drainage. When welding sixteen gauge hot dipped galvanized using 3/32" 6011 hot you can't wait for the puddle. You either have it or you don't. He was the best I've ever seen at it.
Reply:like the guy in post #19 says, the joints are hammered, not coped, which i quess gives you double thick metal and less likely to burnthrugh..put the arc there and wash some puddle over to the surface of the perpendicular pipe..after you build it up after 6 passes and fill the gap, move on lol..
Reply:Hammered doesn't help since he didn't pound them flat enough to double up the steel. You also still have that super thin edge from the pipe cutter. It might not have been too bad if the theory that you smash down the pipe just enough so it touches the other pipe wall evenly actually worked in reality. In reality few managed to do that and about 1/2 the 2nd side wasn't clocked at all close to matching the 1st side.I have a few more picts of the last days work. I just have to find time to down load the camera and post them..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Perfect job for a 120 volt mig.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:17:03