Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC Frequency issue

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Hey all,I just bought a Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC TIG machine. It welds awesome on DC with no problems. When I switch to AC for aluminum my tungsten is imediately balling up, I get a very unstable arc and it doesn't sound like I have any AC Frequency control. Any suggestions?Machine settings:1/8" aluminum135 amps 2t foot control120hz at 35% AC BalanceThoriated tungsten-or at least its supposed to be-red band came with machine.Thanks for any helpDan350
Reply:sounds like the ac balance is set to too much cleaning, adjust for more penetration. also make sure you don't have your ground and torch switched around by mistake.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Could be a defect I had similar issue with a Longevity 200dx that I was sent for a demo.  They are basically the same machine inside.   Made in same factory with most of the same parts.   Try AC with pedal disconnected.    Wes said he found a problem like this caused by a bad pedalTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Sounds like a polarity reversal could be in order.
Reply:The TAs have a backward balance knob compared to Miller, it's showing %pos.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:I have the torch in the (-) and the ground in the (+) per the manual. Is this incorrect?I haven't tried without the foot pedal yet, it's next on my list. I'll continue to share my results.
Reply:Just a thought but isn't thoriated tungsten for DC only? Maybe try pure (green) or ceriated (grey) tungsten on AC.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan350I have the torch in the (-) and the ground in the (+) per the manual. Is this incorrect?I haven't tried without the foot pedal yet, it's next on my list. I'll continue to share my results.
Reply:Try setting the balance 5 to 10% in each direction. ......quick and easy process of elimination.
Reply:So I disconnected the foot pedal and the same issue is occurring. When an arc is struck the tungsten immediately balls, and I don't get the frequency hum. It is a solid hissing sound instead of a buzzing sound. Any other suggestions?
Reply:Ya read the threads you posted and try what people suggested. Red tungsten works on aluminum but with too much cleaning the tungsten will ball up. It's not a bad thing.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Ive tried what everyone has suggested so far with the same results. I'm beginning to think there is a problem with the machine.
Reply:No it's you.Try a different tungsten.You also don't give us any idea of what you are welding, how thick and what your overall settings are. Make sure your torch is on the Neg and ground is on the Pos. Run 100hz for frequency and 26 or 27 for the balance and report back.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:How about a 2% lanthinated tungsten?I have the torch in the (-) and the ground in the (+)1/8" aluminum sheet
Reply:Machine settings:1/8" aluminum135 amps 2t foot control120hz at 35% AC BalanceThoriated tungsten-or at least its supposed to be-red band came with machine.
Reply:I didn't like the red tungsten my machine came with at all.    So far It seems to weld the best with 2% lanthanated.Miller 211 MIGThermal ARC 186 TIGHypertherm Powermax 30 Plasma
Reply:Gas?  Should be argon.  Is it flowing out the tip of your torch?  If you do not have a flow tester, use a finger from a rubber/latex glove over the nozzle and see if it has flow, should work as a balloon.  Just my thoughts.  Bob
Reply:still hasn't changed the AC balance.....as multiple people have recommended.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961still hasn't changed the AC balance.....as multiple people have recommended.
Reply:I've swept all the way through the ac balance settings. To one extreme to the other and everywhere in between. I've tried everything suggested to me.
Reply:Yes, I'm using 100% argon at about 18cfh. I purge the machine each time I turn it on and gas is coming out of the nozzle while welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan350I've swept all the way through the ac balance settings. To one extreme to the other and everywhere in between. I've tried everything suggested to me.
Reply:Gamble,I set the machine exactly how you told me and still the same problem. Do you have any suggestions?  The weld puddle is about the size of nickel and I'm only at 50 amps. I have no problems on dc, it welds awesome only having issues on ac.
Reply:OK Dan, post your location and maybe someone here living close to you can stop by and go over your hook-up and see what's going on.
Reply:I think I'll just take it to cee kay and have them run through itJust an update. I called Thermal Arc and spoke with tech support. I explained to them what was going on. They seem to think the machine is only producing DC current. They told me to take it and have it serviced. I will be taking it Cee Kay supply where I bought it and have them service the machine. Ill update once I know something.
Reply:So what's your problem exactly?Pictures?My guess is the machine is ok and its your lack of experience.Does it buzz on AC? It should.Last edited by Gamble; 11-03-2014 at 04:13 PM.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Well like I stated before in an earlier post. It seems like I don't have any ac frequency control or ac balance control. There is no frequency hum or buzz it is just a hissing sound. The tungsten instantly balls on arc initiation and the  arc is very large and unstable. On a 3/32 tungsten, the ball becomes about the size of a BB. The gas 100% argon at 18-20 cfh. The flow at the torch I'd not obstructed.  This problem occurs regardless of the foot pedal being plugged in or not. As far as my experience goes, I may not have much seat time on a tig, but I am quite capable of realizing when I am no longer the problem. I can do process of elimination. The idea of this whole thread was not to help me with my issue, but maybe give someone with the same issue a direction to go. I could've just as easily consulted the local welding experts and not shared any of my discoveries. Just like no one has to comment on this thread. Let's keep it positive.
Reply:If you bought the machine at your LWS then a trip to them is in order.
Reply:Hey Dan-when you do get it sorted out this is a handy chart for the TA machine- originally for the TSW185 but I imagine the settings should work for the 186 as well.Good Luck Attached ImagesTIGWeldingChart.pdf (112.6 KB, 80 views)Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Like I said. Same issue with longevity machine. That is the same machine basically. Down the the identical part numbers and components on the PCB's. Of course they tried to say I did not know how to weld and denied any issues.  Demo machine was returned and then sent out to another welding web member with the exact same problem.  This I'd the reason I question the quality control on the new TA machines coming from China.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Thermal arc support didn't question me at all. I explained the issue and he agreed it was the machine and not me. I am going to drop the machine off at cee kay in the morning for repair. I'll update with what the problem was once I know.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawLike I said. Same issue with longevity machine. That is the same machine basically. Down the the identical part numbers and components on the PCB's. Of course they tried to say I did not know how to weld and denied any issues.  Demo machine was returned and then sent out to another welding web member with the exact same problem.  This I'd the reason I question the quality control on the new TA machines coming from China.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawLike I said. Same issue with longevity machine. That is the same machine basically. Down the the identical part numbers and components on the PCB's. Of course they tried to say I did not know how to weld and denied any issues.  Demo machine was returned and then sent out to another welding web member with the exact same problem.  This I'd the reason I question the quality control on the new TA machines coming from China.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonIs that the same machine we killed at Weld-O-Rama?
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawYep that is the one....
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawCould be a defect I had similar issue with a Longevity 200dx that I was sent for a demo.  They are basically the same machine inside.   Made in same factory with most of the same parts.   Try AC with pedal disconnected.    Wes said he found a problem like this caused by a bad pedal
Reply:Dropped the machine off at cee kay for repair, no questions asked.  My machine was placed at the front of the repair line and I was told it would be priority.
Reply:I sold my 186 to my friend. Worked well when it left here. Had a issue with the computer type fan not working when it arrived. Probably took a beating on shipping. Tweco was great at transferring the warranty to my friend, and got it back up ,and working for him.. They have sold thousands of those machines, and with very few problems.. Not the exact same machine as the other brands, Some parts are the same, but layout/etc can differ some.. Support will be good, and because some people blow up a longevity, does not mean the Thermal's are suffering  the same fate. Nobody is releasing # to the average person to know those facts.. best thing is to ask the techs in your area.. Probably get a feel for it..Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:If the machine is new and jacked up it should be replaced to you and not repaired. They can repair it on their own time and sell it as a demo or used.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleIf the machine is new and jacked up it should be replaced to you and not repaired. They can repair it on their own time and sell it as a demo or used.
Reply:I don't know about you but when we weld aluminum at scho we use green tungsten not red....
Reply:Originally Posted by bbertbI don't know about you but when we weld aluminum at scho we use green tungsten not red....
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleMost schools use transformer welders where you use green tungsten. Inverter machines don't recommend using green.Thanks for playing...
Reply:Originally Posted by copeT/A 186 and Longevity 200EX are similar.  Didn't you get the EX?
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleMost schools use transformer welders where you use green tungsten. Inverter machines don't recommend using green.Thanks for playing...
Reply:Originally Posted by bbertbA Lincoln precision TIG 225 is a transformer machine? I did not know that...
Reply:Originally Posted by bbertbI don't know about you but when we weld aluminum at scho we use green tungsten not red....
Reply:Thermal arc told me, depending on the issue they may just send a new machine. Cee kay offered to lend me a machine until I got mine back but I'm not in that big of a hurry so I declined
Reply:Originally Posted by Dan350Thermal arc told me, depending on the issue they may just send a new machine. Cee kay offered to lend me a machine until I got mine back but I'm not in that big of a hurry so I declined