How many TIG welders here actually go "by the book" on settings?

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I've been lurking around the forum here and there and keep seeing some mentioning of charts with Argon flow settings, precise tungsten stick out, tungsten grind angle, sometimes cup sizes. I've been a welder for about 10 years, and I was exposed to all that in school, but when actually welding, I've always just gone by feel, or what's necessary to get the job done. I check my argon flow with my cheek, I sharpen my tungsten on my grinder with a drill probably a lot longer and pointier than the "book" says because it strikes up easier with lift arc, my tungsten stick out is dependant on where I need to reach (I'd do about an 1/8" or less to walk a cap, and have used about 1" on some tight-*** boiler tubes 4 tubes deep with a mirror and about an inch and a half of space to get the torch head in) and I generally always use the same cup regardless what I'm welding (no. 6 or 8 usually depending what they have in the tool room until I chip or crack it again). Everything I've seen has always just been welders preference. Even welding to code, the required parameters have pretty big ranges when they specify argon flow and amp settings.I've worked in aerospace, power plants, refineries, dry docks and still have never come across anyone who cares what any charts or books say. I understand that beginners need something to reference to start, but after that, do any of you really stay strict on any of this stuff?
Reply:No. I like a long point, too, stays sharp longer. IMO. The only place I've been where they checked all the procedure parameters on a test was at a fab shop in Alaska. Once you get on the job, different story. You can't weld outside in the wind with your argon on 30.
Reply:I just now started seeing what my flow actually is just so I can tell my helper what to set it at if I'm already set up away from my bottle. I usually have it around 45. But that's why I check it on my cheek. If the wind is blowing too hard for me to feel the gas on my cheek good, I turn it up. And put my tungsten in more. Then get the helper to hold a face shield next to my weld haha.
Reply:Well, if you're using a gas lens, you can blast it a whole lot higher than that. We used to hot rod our regulators to get more flow when I was working in the field. I blew the copper cables right out the side of the hose one time.
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFAI've been lurking around the forum here and there and keep seeing some mentioning of charts with Argon flow settings, precise tungsten stick out, tungsten grind angle, sometimes cup sizes. I've been a welder for about 10 years, and I was exposed to all that in school, but when actually welding, I've always just gone by feel, or what's necessary to get the job done. I check my argon flow with my cheek, I sharpen my tungsten on my grinder with a drill probably a lot longer and pointier than the "book" says because it strikes up easier with lift arc, my tungsten stick out is dependant on where I need to reach (I'd do about an 1/8" or less to walk a cap, and have used about 1" on some tight-*** boiler tubes 4 tubes deep with a mirror and about an inch and a half of space to get the torch head in) and I generally always use the same cup regardless what I'm welding (no. 6 or 8 usually depending what they have in the tool room until I chip or crack it again). Everything I've seen has always just been welders preference. Even welding to code, the required parameters have pretty big ranges when they specify argon flow and amp settings.I've worked in aerospace, power plants, refineries, dry docks and still have never come across anyone who cares what any charts or books say. I understand that beginners need something to reference to start, but after that, do any of you really stay strict on any of this stuff?
Reply:I threw the "Book" into the trash 30 years ago....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I wouldn't say I push the limits. If anything, I over use argon which is pretty much unavoidable when welding outdoors. I just go by feel with the flow. I know too much can suck ambient air into the flow, or even blow the puddle around. I've tee'd off some people's high pressure regulators and their flow was ridiculous like they were trying to arc gouge or something, and I ended up taking the time to get my own bottle instead.
Reply:TheBFA.....Do 99% of my carbon steel tigging with a long pointy 1/8" tungsten.  Bet you're not going after those boiler tubes at 1 amp per .001 inch wall thickness.
Reply:Not a chance. I don't see how some people come up with these stupid criteria. I think some of these engineers have their nose stuck in a book and don't ever look up to see the real world. Every welder runs his passes his own way, and how much heat goes into it is more based on speed than amps. I usually change my amps anyway after running the root, which is what most people do. Unless I'm too deep in the boiler to yell at my hole watch to change my machine, then I'll set a happy medium to do the root and the rest. But then I gotta be really quick on the root.
Reply:The book is good for leveling a wobbly tableRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:amazing how some talk about quality and how Americans do high quality work and then there are others debating doing what the book recommends for high quality work. basically some do not want to do quality work as they want to go faster by bending the rules,.many a weld might not break in front of you but can be full of defects like slag inclusions, oxidized metal, porosity, lack of penetration etc. and when the weld is seriously stress then the poor quality weld can break with no warning..even something as simple as handrail. not good if somebody pushes on handrail and weld snaps and a person goes falling off a roof. it was once told to me a critical weld is if weld fails would anybody care ? and that includes inconvenience of having to reweld something. 99% of time all welds are critical welds. if a welder welds through a painted surface cause he does not want to grind paint off and say handrail breaks and somebody is hurt. how is it going to sound if somebody says it would have taken 2 minutes to grind the paint off and did not want to do it..tig welding much is cosmetic. oxidized metal and poor penetration might not be seen on the surface of a weld. but weld can still fail later if seriously stressed by defects hidden from the surfaceLast edited by WNY_TomB; 02-27-2016 at 04:41 AM.
Reply:Everything in the books didn't get there from pre-planning, most of it got there from observation. Even the best hands enjoy looking over the shoulder of someone doing something successfully & doing it well to maybe pick something up. Truth is you still gotta learn the craft by doing though - no shortcut for that part...So the gas flux thing isn't set in stone but it's a good start if you don't know anything, as is the list of things to check if your weld is going south on you. Power settings, filler size & travel speeds the same - except for the learning of what the physical arc length does to things and how you adapt to all the variables. I wouldn't want to be the guy that starts all this sh!t from scratch with just a rod in my hand...Energy inputs, CE equivalents & hydrogen content are also derived from observing things that worked, or didn't work. Using them is not a guarantee it'll be good, but it can help a lot at predicting things. If a hand ever gets to the point if thinking "I'm there" - then you are - "stick a fork in it, you're done". I'm 63 & I don't wanna "be there", I wanna keep looking for more game until I can't play anymore.Good luck guys, Matt
Reply:The book is for reference only, and can be misinformation at times. You got to set your own parameters as every machine, torch, and situation is different. When you find a winning combination, write it down in you own book.I have to write weld procedures from very specific test data. When I do though I write them as loose as possible to make adjustments as necessary without straying out of the procedure. Just a slight tilt in the torch angle between person to person produces wildly different results.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I was meaning more of actual setup of the torch and gas stuff, like tungsten sharpening and stick out. Then I've seen some charts somewhere with gas flow settings. Procedures are there for a reason, and I'm not saying I don't follow those. It was kind of hard to word the thread topic heading for what I was actually meaning. Its just from seeing posts by beginners who list every single parameter they're using, and I completely understand their need for a baseline to go off of, but just wondering how many experienced people actually pay that strict of attention, because I sure don't. There are lots of times where is a pain in the *** to run my own leads to a spot and someone else already had theirs run in that area and I'll borrow their torch and all I'll ask them it what amps they are at so I have an idea what to expect when I strike up. I don't ever worry about what their tungsten setup is out what cfm they're running as long as the flow feels good to me.Last edited by TheBFA; 02-27-2016 at 12:06 PM.
Reply:The book is a bunch of guidelines, and even they can be confusing. Sometimes they read more like they're trying to sell water-cooled torches.Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.Miller Bobcat 225ntOne- Character Fractions: ¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
Reply:I don't have any trouble with books.Read them, get a feel for what it means through experience.Adjust from there as needed.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:There'd be a learning lesson if an innocent newby sets up a machine with his handi-dandi Miller calculator and gives the go-ahead with the machine set at 220 amps for a 2" sch. 80.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldSparksThere'd be a learning lesson if an innocent newby sets up a machine with his handi-dandi Miller calculator and gives the go-ahead with the machine set at 220 amps for a 2" sch. 80.
Reply:There's a time and place for everything. In my work(boiler work) often times you must strictly follow the procedure when dealing with finicky materials such as 9chrome. You don't properly preheat and post heat that stuff your in trouble.
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFAI was meaning more of actual setup of the torch and gas stuff, like tungsten sharpening and stick out. Then I've seen some charts somewhere with gas flow settings. Procedures are there for a reason, and I'm not saying I don't follow those. It was kind of hard to word the thread topic heading for what I was actually meaning. Its just from seeing posts by beginners who list every single parameter they're using, and I completely understand their need for a baseline to go off of, but just wondering how many experienced people actually pay that strict of attention, because I sure don't. There are lots of times where is a pain in the *** to run my own leads to a spot and someone else already had theirs run in that area and I'll borrow their torch and all I'll ask them it what amps they are at so I have an idea what to expect when I strike up. I don't ever worry about what their tungsten setup is out what cfm they're running as long as the flow feels good to me.
Reply:I just remember being green fresh out of school and the first time I saw someone sharpening their tungsten on an angle grinder, I was like "you're not supposed to do it like that. You're supposed to grind along the tungsten" and "why aren't there any tungsten sharpeners or bench grinders?"  Or "how am i supposed to get a weld in that corner cause my tungsten will never reach without sticking it out more than I'm supposed to"
Reply:I've had to stick my tungsten out so far to make tangent tube butt weld a good fart would blow your argon away. Sometimes conventional just won't cut the mustard.