120 gal tank. Keep or do first real project? (Big Smoker)

admin

I believe I just bought a USA-made horizontal 120 gallon, 200 psi air holding tank off  CL.  Thickness all areas 3/16".  Believe it is 24" x 69".  Big sucker!Agreed on price.  Am to call him  tomorrow to arrange pick up from a business location in Richmond.   Item has been  removed from CL.  I realize nothing on CL is final until in my hands/on my trailer.The big question is whether to use it as an aux  air tank as it had been used...(I assume this gentleman changed the use of the building but am not sure.  It is still plumbed.)...OR take on my first real welding project and  make an awesome smoker for use or possible resale at my flea market  store.  There are only wife and I so I'll never use it much except possibly for retired military  annual club pig roast. We now hire someone with a rig to do the cooking each year. Looking for thoughts and suggestions.  I've got the plasma for cutting and more than enough welding capacity.  (No comment on skill...just capacity.)  I know there are smoker designs on the  site but just thinking at this point.  I've got an American made 60 gal  compressor that meets my needs but did not want to pass this  opportunity up.I await your views. Attached Images30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Do you need more air storage ?? If cheap, maybe resell ?  If you want to play, build the smoker. Do you material on hand for the smoker build?
Reply:Don't need the air storage.  Have about two 1/8" sheets, and a good amount of 2x2x1/8" angle.  Got lots of aluminum in various configurations to 1/4" diamond plate and a good amount of stainless sheet (once I cut apart my latest scrap commercial kitchen acquisitions).Have plenty of  SS electrode SMAW and wire GMAW and plenty of AL wire GMAW.  Also have a load of 60xx and 70xx electrodes.  Have not looked at designs but just a stream of thought.  Reselling might bring a hundred $ or so but when will I see this chance to do a big hobby project again?  (PLEASE NOTE THERE HAS BEEN NO MENTION OF A TRAILER.) (Yet)   30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I have a 150 gal propane tank I'm going to build a smoker from and I also have a 60 gal air compressor that meets my needs so I think you can guess what my opinion is. I wouldn't use 1/8" for the fire box, 1/4" is much better for holding heat.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:How about 1/8" clad in 1/4" aluminum?  It would look better and I'm trying to use what I have.  Would 1/4" alum work alone?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Smoker.  Hands down
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanHow about 1/8" clad in 1/4" aluminum?  It would look better and I'm trying to use what I have.  Would 1/4" alum work alone?
Reply:Guess I got my physics backwards.  Maybe steel, a pad of insulation, then aluminum or some stainless from the 6 door pizza oven I haven't cut up yet? 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Plus if you are only using 1/8 in the fire box you will eventually warp the hell out of it or burn through it. Most fire boxes are 1/4".Lincoln Pro Mig 180Lincoln Pro Core 125Hypertherm 30xpPorter Cable Drill PressAcra 7x12 bandsaw48" sheet metal brakeCrap load of other tools, working on metal now.
Reply:Thanks.  Guess I'll have to get some 1/4" from the scrap yard30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Please remember that in most cases, unless your pump can pump more than your current tank can use quickly, adding more air storage makes your pump work harder as it tries to keep the new combined total air tank at a certain pressure level.
Reply:Originally Posted by CraboPlease remember that in most cases, unless your pump can pump more than your current tank can use quickly, adding more air storage makes your pump work harder as it tries to keep the new combined total air tank at a certain pressure level.
Reply:Jerry,  If you are coming to Richmond and need some scrap, there's a fab place that was selling for 30 cents a pound a couple years ago on CL.  Oilfield Pipe and Supply. PM me if you want the name & number of the guy who listed it on CL."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Smoker all the way, unless you can hydro the tank and make sure it wont go BOOM... as far as 1/8 for fire box, that is thin but you can make the fire box a little bigger and line it with fire brick like All the wood stoves have and be fine for a bit...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:on smaller smokers, I don't fret too much about using 1/8 steel, but on something that large, you are looking at a firebox in the neighborhood of 24x20x20", and panels of that size may have a tendency to warp. I did build one years ago that had a firebox with 20x18 sides, and the large sides warped only slightly.Insulating, with 1" insulation would work  for heat retention, but I might think about running a piece of 1" sq. tubing at the midpoint of each panel to eliminate/mitigate the warping.The sq. tubing could be welded directly to the fire side panel, and on the outside, the plate plug welded to the stiffener by drilling a few strategically located holes.... or, you could just use 1/4". It would be WAY less labor intensive.Last edited by geezerbill; 01-05-2015 at 12:06 PM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Sounds like 1/4" is the answer.  Thanks for all the input.  First things first.  Retrieve then design.  Odendum, PM on the way.  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I would say either make a smoker or if you really wanted to, make an air cannon. If i had a tank that size and PSI rating, I would.
Reply:Build an awesome smoker for the practice, than sell it!Sell it for as much as you can get out of it!start high as you can always come down!Then buy more material for your next project!
Reply:Type,I'm done with cannons. Drujinin,We think alike.Thanks to both of you.  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Picked up the tank today.  Pretty good condition for $80.  Have been looking at ideas. I'd would like to know if any WW members have done internal firebox smokers.  Example of a build is at this link..  http://www.theqjoint.com/forum/showt...Smoker-startedSorry,  I couldn't save the pictures and get them to post here.The build thread is of a tank about identical to mine and I like the access doors he made and the tiered shelves.  Only one end needs to be lit if a small load or a low temp smoke.  It seems that the fire pits in the ends are fairly straight forward.  Also seems that it could pretty much double as a direct or indirect grill, if desired.What do ya'll think?  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I built a small smoker/grill with something of an internal firebox on the left end of the grill.I built an insert, about 25% of the width of the grill.The insert is a charcoal basket which has a partition on the cooking side, which is taller than the meat rack(s).This forces the smoke/heat above the meat, and it travels downward, to the exhaust, which is at the opposite end, near tie bottom.In this small grill, 25% is probably too large for the fire section, because in a 12 hour smoke, I have never used up the entire capacity of lump charcoal. Considering how much charcoal I always have left over, 15 - 20% would probably be adequate.If you design it to where the only place the fire can get its oxygen, is via the inlet at the firebox side, you can control the temps very well, and have very little need to 'tend the fire'.The temp is higher near the partition than at the far end, but I just put the point of the brisket near the partition, and the flat toward the other end.It works very well in this small configuration, and I have wondered how it would do on a larger scale.Before I cut down on the charcoal basket size:A flat started:the results:Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Very similar to what I have in mind, including low-mounted smoke stack.  Thanks a lot.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:That 250 gallon is 30" diameter. Your 120 is likely 24" diameter at best. It makes a real difference with an internal firebox build.Not saying it won't work but you might end up with something that is hard to sell.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Jerry, air cannons are fun.  My son made one with a 20 lb. propane tank and a 10 foot steel barrel. Got one of those high speed 1 1/2" dump valves off E-Bay.  Scary.  We don't even know how far it will shoot a spud, as we're afraid we'll hit someone's car 1/4 mile up the road."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelThat 250 gallon is 30" diameter. Your 120 is likely 24" diameter at best. It makes a real difference with an internal firebox build.Not saying it won't work but you might end up with something that is hard to sell.Originally Posted by OldendumJerry, air cannons are fun.  My son made one with a 20 lb. propane tank and a 10 foot steel barrel. Got one of those high speed 1 1/2" dump valves off E-Bay.  Scary.  We don't even know how far it will shoot a spud, as we're afraid we'll hit someone's car 1/4 mile up the road.
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanGravel,I'm thinking about tucking the fireboxes in the ends.  Won't interfere with the width of effective grill area.  Mine is 24x59".  Not sure how depth/diameter plays into it.  Please explain.I'll likely keep my first project and eventually giveit to our retired military club (if it works as I hope).  If it doesn't, time for autopsy.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelI skipped steps of my thought process in my explanation. The smaller the diameter,  the smaller and shallower the head. This means smaller area for hotbox. The 24" will work fine for stacked cook surfaces, I've done it.Here are my concerns:1. Small hotbox : cook chamber ratio2. Cook surface nearest the ends may be hotter than the rest3. Difficult to use wood because of head size.With all that, I think you will make it work. Hell, if it doesn't, you can make adjustments.I have a friend at work who built a design that I've heard my whole life that it doesn't work. He makes some really good brisket in about 6 hours on it. Damndest thing...By the way, have you looked at the smoker size calculator on the smokering.com?I'll find the link. Be right back. Wait here.Edit: found it faster than expected. http://www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.htmlThis may be completely impractical for this design.
Reply:Aprox 75 gallon. and too small for my entertaining needs. Otherwise ok for feeding 8 to 10 people.Now I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:Got an extra seat at the table?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:If it's 24", it will make an ideal offset smoker! I build quite a few myselfHome hobbiest:Build all sorts of BBQ pits & smokers (trailer & non)Lincoln 225 Cracker box (antique)O/P torchRedneck tools out the a$$.They get me by!
Reply:It is 24".  Will be warmer before I start.  Any pictures?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Fellas, I've read somewhere on here to use expanded steel 3/4 x #9 flat.  I see that material offered cold rolled and hot rolled.  I assume hot rolled will have mill scale, cold rolled will not.   Make a difference as a cooking surface? Which is recommended?   30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:In addition to my hot versus cold expanded metal question, I have another.  I have a lot if 1/4" aluminum diamond plate, might not work for the sides of a fire box but are there any health or other reasons it could not be used for the plenum plate in a smoker?  Most good grills are aluminum housings such as my Weber Genesis.  Plenum plate shouldn't get any hotter than the belly of a grill.  Shouldn't need to be welded down since the movable draft plates aren't welded in place in that style of reverse flow smoker.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanFellas, I've read somewhere on here to use expanded steel 3/4 x #9 flat.  I see that material offered cold rolled and hot rolled.  I assume hot rolled will have mill scale, cold rolled will not.   Make a difference as a cooking surface? Which is recommended?
Reply:Storeman    I can smell the BBQ already.   Cant wait to see how it turns out...Richey
Reply:Thanks.  Am trying to maximize what I have and minimize costs.  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press