Lincoln Power MIG 210MP vs rank amateur

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I thought I would start a thread documenting what its like for a complete rank amateur to weld with this new Power MIG 210MP. Closest thing I have done to welding is using a soldering iron so this may get interesting. Is there a cussing emoticon? I'm finally ready to begin and will start by practicing on some scraps tonight.Welding gear? Check!Welding table? Check!Steel cut, deburred, and ready for assembly? Check! I have to say I'm pretty happy with the TurnPro 7x12 bandsaw.Some scraps to practice on? Check!Here's what I'll be building for my first project, its a simple stand for a milling machine. That ladder in the back is for attaching control panels as I'll be converting this mill to CNC.
Reply:I already don't like you because of your welding table!Looking forward to watching your build! Oh, and the closest thing we have to a cussing emoticon is  or GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:As a new welder, set the machine up by the charts. Keep gun motion small and move slow.Watch the puddle form. Sometimes the puddle doesn't form right until the second time around when going in circles.
Reply:So you've never welded before, and your gonna try and weld all this new, nice metal together?Please try welding on scrap, BEFORE welding on something of value.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Already a hater in post #2 lol, Gravel did I mention I upgraded to the more expensive Nitride coated table? I selected the factory defaults for 3/16, I'm using .035 solid wire and 75/25 gas 15 lpm. I had a buddy test this welder when it came in, he turned down the wire feed a bit as it seemed too fast but still within the green adjustment zone on the display. I started there, here it is in pictures...Well I see its going to be a learning process, here are the first two tests. I started in the middle of this vertical and fed down trying to go slow but the puddle quickly got large and sagged. On the second attempt I sped up a bit also feeding down and it seemed like the puddle wasn't getting hot enough. So too slow and too much metal in a sagging puddle, too fast and not enough heat.I switched to the other side and fed from the bottom up vs top down, tried to keep the puddle from getting too large but obviously went too fast.These are my last two attempts first on the left then the right. I turned the wire feed down to the bottom of the green zone on the display. I think that dial is adjusting both amps and wire feed, ideally I wanted to lower the wire feed but keep the amps up. Its about 50 degrees in my garage. I think on the left attempt I may have had the angle wrong, looks like the shielding gas wasn't quite getting the job done. The right weld looks cleaner I guess, kind of a dull grey color that would look like a cold solder joint if I was soldering. I would appreciate any tips on welding this type of joint, with the radius of the tubing there's a pretty good size gap. Lastly, damn (cough) (choke) but a tiny bit of welding produces a lot of smelly smoke I'll have to keep the garage door open and run a fan.
Reply:ALSO  this MIG gun has a freaking hair trigger. I wonder if Jackel's is like that. I'm not kidding either you can't even touch that trigger and BAM its on. I would prefer if I had to pull the trigger at least half way before it engaged or had a stronger trigger pull. If there's any twist in the cord just the force of that turning in your hand and brushing against your glove will engage it. I may do a video on this to see just how little effort it takes. Maybe i'm just not used to these big *** gloves.
Reply:First off, a couple beads are not practice.  Figure a basic MIG class students spend 40+ hrs running beads.   2nd wire speed IS amps!  Voltage is bead profile.  I like the term heat.    So you need enough heat to penetrate with the needed amps for a certain thickness of metal.  Those beads are cold and virtually no penetration.  Start welding in the flat 1F and horizontal 2F positions before welding in vertical 3F.  Which needs to be vertical up on thick material.As DSW would say,  you have to learn to read the puddle.   Go watch a bunch of Jody's videos at weldingtipsandTricks.com.Amps per wire diameter is basically a fixed value.  Here is one explanation from Miller http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...elding-basics/Last edited by soutthpaw; 11-25-2014 at 01:25 AM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by coolidge Maybe i'm just not used to these big *** gloves.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawFirst off, a couple beads are not practice.  Figure a basic MIG class students spend 40+ hrs running beads.   2nd wire speed IS amps!  Voltage is bead profile.  I like the term heat.    So you need enough heat to penetrate with the needed amps for a certain thickness of metal.  Those beads are cold and virtually no penetration.  Start welding in the flat 1F and horizontal 2F positions before welding in vertical 3F.  Which needs to be vertical up on thick material.As DSW would say,  you have to learn to read the puddle.   Go watch a bunch of Jody's videos at weldingtipsandTricks.com.Amps per wire diameter is basically a fixed value.  Here is one explanation from Miller http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...elding-basics/
Reply:Vertical welding is hard to learn. Usually we have students learn to weld flat 1st, horizontal 2nd before moving to vertical. Each step builds on the previous one and you learn a small piece of the puzzle one step at a time. Trying to go to chapter 22 and start there seldom works well. Usually guys get very frustrated because they just can't get it. Almost all the time the problem comes down to the fact they never learned the basics they skipped. As Southpaw mentioned to do this well, you need to learn to read the puddle. It will take a while to pick up the knowledge and needed references but most people will eventually get it if they try. It's almost impossible to learn to weld vertical if you can't read the puddle.Your flat welds don't look all that bad. I'd say you need to do more and longer welds. But joints are again one of the harder ones to do well. We start guys off doing plain beads on flat plate. Then they do overlapping beads, then lap joints, T joints and outside corners, in that order, before getting to but joints.Simplest "trick" you can use to compensate for lack of skill and knowledge on beginner projects is to 1st learn to do semi decent welds flat. Then keep turning your project so you can make all the welds in the flat position. I don't see anything on your project that really can't be done that way so you can avoid vertical welds you just aren't ready for..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Round 2Factory settings = 280 ipm, 18 volts. Per the Welding Tips and Tricks site I increased the feed to 304 ipm and left it there for all tests. I bumped the voltage up and down between 18.5 to 19 while testing, per the video's I think the upper end was too hot. I also started getting the feeling I was holding the torch too far from the stock so I gradually moved closer. On the last weld on the left I moved right in close and got burn through, interesting. On my next test I think I will return to the factory settings of 280 ipm 18 volts to establish a baseline, holding the torch closer, then bump the feed up to 304 imp and play around with the voltage a bit and see how that compares. It seems how far away you hold the torch really makes a difference in terms of heat and penetration. One observation, all these welds glowed brightly much longer after I lifted off than my test welds yesterday.This resolved my choking smoke issue.I jumped around left to right but my last weld with the burn through is on the far left.Here's a close up.
Reply:Amperage as well as voltage decreases the the longer your stick out gets.    (Tip to work distance) due to increased resistanceTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I took a break from welding practice to turn some fixturing pins on the lathe. This welding...yeah a bit more difficult than expected.I machined these locating pins to precisely fit the welding table holes. I finish cut the long ones just for fun, it really wasn't required.The longer pins are for stock that is elevated off the table.I have to weld up two of these, the pins are simply to quickly position the stock square. The holes are precision CNC drilled so I decided to take advantage of that.Here's a pic showing how I elevated the 2x3 rails .5 inch to center on the 3x3 legs. Once positioned square against the pins I will clamp everything to the table.Today its back to welding practice then Turkey dinner followed by passing out in a recliner.Last edited by coolidge; 11-27-2014 at 10:39 AM.
Reply:Okay after a fair bit of practice its time to check in with the experts to see how I'm doing, am I making progress? These seem better to me.
Reply:That is enough internet for today... you need to watch someone that knows what they are doing under the hood. Welding vertical down and looking good is a lot easier than welding flat. On butt joints.The magnum gun is typical of commercial/residential guns rather then industrial guns with a big delay.. The pre-flow is awesome. I don't like waiting, when you wanna blow and go, you do. No complaints with the gun/trigger at all.If you want a good looking weld and full penetration, open up your gap and fill or crank the voltage. Those welds are way to tall. Fab work I always give myself a gap, less grinding and it flows in nice.14' PowerMig 210 MP13'Burntables 5x10 CNC Table14' SAE300 HE on a 12' Ram 4500 60 CA 4x4. Custom bed/bottles/reels.87' SA250d, 78 SA200,11' Ranger 250 GXT AC/DCThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 8112' Lincoln Precision Tig 22508' LN25
Reply:Here's the latest, practice is over (for now) I need to get this stand together but welding...yeah its more difficult than it looks. I can see taking a series of welding classes would be helpful. Again this thread was can a rank amateur with no experience get welding at least well enough to assemble a simple stand.Here it is mostly clamped, I have it in a death grip! I welded the sides the other day, tonight I tacked the rest of it and completed all the top/flat welds.Here are some examples of my latest welds from this evening. Settings were 450/25 volts, I turned it down from 'melt damn you' 470/25 volts.Last edited by coolidge; 12-01-2014 at 10:05 PM.
Reply:Nice welds.You should be good to go on your fabbing...Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:You have plenty of heat. Gas flow looks a little low, what was your flow rate?
Reply:Much better coolidge. I rarely have that many clamps on a fixture/project. I tip back my joints and tack, let it draw, then tap each joint into square/level/plumb/where ever I need it. Once I have everything hard tacked, then I turn and burn. Basically pipe fitting carried over to fab work. Gives you a nice gap for less grinding, and you never get metal bound.BTW, what are you building?PS, I always pull mig, rather then push.14' PowerMig 210 MP13'Burntables 5x10 CNC Table14' SAE300 HE on a 12' Ram 4500 60 CA 4x4. Custom bed/bottles/reels.87' SA250d, 78 SA200,11' Ranger 250 GXT AC/DCThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 8112' Lincoln Precision Tig 22508' LN25
Reply:AK - thanks its been a challenge getting this far.MJD - gas flow is about 14 lpm, good idea I'll turn it up tomorrow and see if that helps. I got froze out of the garage tonight by 26 degree temps, I'll have to finish up welding tomorrow. Jackal - that technique sounds interesting. This is a stand for a 900 pound milling machine. Next up is a stand for that 1,000 pound lathe in the background, the factory stand is too high and too shallow. Then a stand on casters for the unruly 500 pound rototiller that mounts to my Kubota tractor. Actually there are several things I'd like to fab for the tractor.
Reply:Nice, Next week is a clear span 40 foot mezzanine 24" I beam all fab work.. Bout ready to turn it down, off to the oil field. That stand is way over kill for a 500lb machine.14' PowerMig 210 MP13'Burntables 5x10 CNC Table14' SAE300 HE on a 12' Ram 4500 60 CA 4x4. Custom bed/bottles/reels.87' SA250d, 78 SA200,11' Ranger 250 GXT AC/DCThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 8112' Lincoln Precision Tig 22508' LN25
Reply:Good luck on your projects!
Reply:Originally Posted by TheJackalNice, Next week is a clear span 40 foot mezzanine 24" I beam all fab work.. Bout ready to turn it down, off to the oil field. That stand is way over kill for a 500lb machine.
Reply:The circled tack on your weld joint was poorly located in my opinion. Since you welded that joint first, I would have preferred to have seen the tack located on the other weld joint in the picture that you hadn't welded yet. If it had been placed there instead, you could have ground the tack out or at least greatly thinned it down before welding the joint. Attached ImagesESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Your work looks good.   You should be feeling pretty good about now.  I noticed that you were doing 100% welds on all the joints.   I was about to suggest that the cross members would be OK with less weld since they are not load carrying.   Then you mentioned that you were going for as stiff as possible.     With that in mind, you might consider diagonal cross braces if you have any doubts about the stiffness.Dan----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200XOriginally Posted by DanThe circled tack on your weld joint was poorly located in my opinion. Since you welded that joint first, I would have preferred to have seen the tack located on the other weld joint in the picture that you hadn't welded yet. If it had been placed there instead, you could have ground the tack out or at least greatly thinned it down before welding the joint.
Reply:Final - Well this first amateur welding job is now complete, I finished the welding, ground, primed, and painted it! Next up a new stand for my lathe.
Reply:Looks nice man.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:looks good
Reply:Your table makes me sad.
Reply:Originally Posted by TigMonsterYour table makes me sad.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopMakes many lesser men weep.
Reply:Originally Posted by TigMonsterI wonder of my fiance can get me one for christmas lol
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDoes she have a sister?
Reply:Final pics
Reply:Weld done?   Well done!Dan----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Your garage it's way too clean, looks good thoughTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawYour garage it's way too clean, looks good though
Reply:Originally Posted by coolidgeFinal pics