Aluminum TIG troubles

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Hi everyone.  I am new to the forum.  I've been migging and tigging steel/stainless for the last 7 years on side projects, mostly automotive.  I am self-taught and by no means an expert.  Most of what I weld is tubing for intercooler and exhaust kits.  I have been used to using the MIG to create all my tack welds and then finish everything up with the TIG.  I recently sold my Maxstar 150 STL and bought a Diversion 180 so I could move into aluminum.  I expected some resistance at first, but I am having some serious challenges with it.  I have a bunch of test pieces (angle iron and tubing) that is 6061, and I have 3/32" 4043 filler rod.  I'm using 100% argon at 15 cu.ft./hr.  The tubing is 1/16" thick and I have the dial set around 60 amps.  I can't even create a tack at the butt joint with the rod let alone a puddle along the seam.  When I get the filler close, it balls up rather than melt out.  I then tried creating a puddle off to the side and moving it toward the joint, but in the end it just ends up opening up at the joint.  On the 1/8" thick angle iron, I was able to melt enough at the joint to create a puddle without any filler and once I had that, I was able to walk the puddle no problem.  Unfortunately that doesn't solve my problem for the thinner walled tubing where I need some tacks to start.I checked to make sure the 4043 was compatible with the 6061.  My gas is right, flow rate seems fine, so I am not sure what I'm missing.Any tips or references I could look at?  I was looking for some videos but couldn't find anything for what I am trying to do, although I am sure they're out there.
Reply:Is your tubing anodized? Does it create speckles on the finish?Otherwise set your machine to kill. and melt something on the tube. Keep your torch angle relatively upright, and when you are ready to add rod, lessen the amps a tad and cram the rod in before it melts back. I would set your amps about 100 to start, and the push the pedal beyond half way somewhat.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Turn the heat up, if you're trying to do a fillet, extend the tungsten beyond the cup a bit more so you have better aiming of the arc and turn your gas up a bit. Aim the majority of the arc on the flat surface, not the edge as that'll melt sooner. You might find it easier if you bridge across the joint first with a small, short weld not paying much attention to actually getting it fused, the heat will even out a bit more as the pieces will be joined. Melt the rod by dipping it in the puddle not melting it with the arc, don't pull the rod out of the gas envelope as it'll oxidize in the atmosphere, dip it in the puddle, get out, dip, get out away from the arc....Mike
Reply:The tubing is mirror-polished when I receive it, so I am not sure if that has anything to do with it, but it didn't seem to help even if I wire brushed it first.There is no coating on the tubing, but it does have what I guess you would call speckles.  I'll give that method a try.  Thanks.
Reply:Work on flat pieces first until you get the hang of aluminum - it behaves differently.Because of aluminum's excellent thermal properties, "Sneaking up" on the amps doesn't work like on steel. It just heats the whole piece instead of where you want the puddle.If you don't make a puddle in 3 seconds or less, you're using too little amps.Your filler rod balling up instead of flowing into the puddle means you tried before the puddle was well established.High amps to start the puddle quickly, then back off a little as you go.Be bold - have fun Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:That 3/32" filler won't help, try some 1/16" filler.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:That 3/32" filler won't help, try some 1/16" filler
Reply:I disagree with the Pug. Bigger filler is less prone to balling. Wet aluminum seems better able to absorb the heat of the arc. It's critical that the puddle be HOT, as you dip filler 99% of the heat melting the rod comes from contact with puddle. Dabs of filler must be quick, get in quick enough the arc heat doesn't heat rod. Most experts say the hot end of filler must stay in the gas cloud. Zap says otherwise, He demonstrates coming in from the side, or even behind with filler to avoid the heat of the arc.Tack on full without filler, if it takes a second, you are doing it wrong. Starting a bead, heat each side of the joint to puddle, flow it to the edge, dab filler on one side, wash it to bridge. Dwell there a few seconds to get penetration, then run. I center the arc, stay as close as I can, at the leading edge of the puddle, nearly perpendicular, As the puddle forms a horseshoe shape, dab filler. In rapid succession the puddle will liquefy the filler, rebounding by freezing the "dime". Repeat.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BTack on full without filler, if it takes a second, you are doing it wrong. Starting a bead, heat each side of the joint to puddle, flow it to the edge, dab filler on one side, wash it to bridge. Dwell there a few seconds to get penetration, then run. I center the arc, stay as close as I can, at the leading edge of the puddle, nearly perpendicular, As the puddle forms a horseshoe shape, dab filler. In rapid succession the puddle will liquefy the filler, rebounding by freezing the "dime". Repeat.
Reply:I seldom use filler to tack. I usually need a free hand. Jody says they are "weak as water". Once stable, I can gently start to use filler. I'm using 4943, most often 3/32". 1/16 sometimes gives me trouble balling up. I have to be quick dabbing, hold the arc perpendicular to the joint. Keep the arc short. As the "horseshoe" puddle forms I dab one end of the puddle. It flows where it needs to be.--> 55% Electrode negative on your AC balance Why so low? My tungsten would ball up and fall off at that. With clean aluminum, I would be 70-80% EN (20-30% EP on some machines)An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I'm going to try some of these methods today.Unfortunately changing the balance and frequency are not options on the Miller Diversion.  It's more of a beginner's machine and amperage and flow rate are my only two real controls.I appreciate all the quick responses and am eager to try some of them today.  Rest assured, I'll be reporting back one way or another.
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikeyAlmost everyone I know says the same as you, me, I use 1/8 for everything, I find not having to shove it into a joint fast makes it easier to control the feed rate, just proves I'm an oddball I guess :-)....Mike
Reply:Use what you have, at higher amps. I like 1/16 filler at 150A better than 3/32 at 100a that's for sure! You can try turning the machine all the way up (a.k.a. "Kill") and just use the foot pedal. Later, have a friend watch the machine and call out the amps sometime to calibrate.Rule o' thumb: 1 amp per thou material thickness, -15% for SS, +15% for Alu. So 1/16 Alu requires 125A +15% =144A just a bit more than 60SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by BrazinUse what you have, at higher amps. I like 1/16 filler at 150A better than 3/32 at 100a that's for sure! You can try turning the machine all the way up (a.k.a. "Kill") and just use the foot pedal. Later, have a friend watch the machine and call out the amps sometime to calibrate.Rule o' thumb: 1 amp per thou material thickness, -15% for SS, +15% for Alu. So 1/16 Alu requires 125A +15% =144A just a bit more than 60
Reply:even on 0.050" thick material, where the puddle size is half the diameter of the filler rod? I'd like to see that.
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikeyAlmost everyone I know says the same as you, me, I use 1/8 for everything, I find not having to shove it into a joint fast makes it easier to control the feed rate, just proves I'm an oddball I guess :-)....Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugThe problem is he is new to aluminum tig, with lower amperage (slower travel) the larger filler freezes the puddle too much and you get cold lap or really tall beads or the filler just balls when near the arc. He states the material is 1/16", 3/32" filler unless used with higher amperage is too big.
Reply:Some of the tips worked great.  The two biggest things that had an impact on today's test pieces were holding the torch more perpendicular to the workpiece (compared to my previous 45 degree angle), and pulling the tungsten back in much closer to the cup.  I started with 100 amps, too.  I was able to tack almost instantly on the 1/8" angle and had no problem moving down the seam dropping filler in.  As you can see below, yesterday's progress vs. today's..  It still isn't pretty but a huge improvement from yesterday I think.  I'll continue practicing with that method for awhile.  One of the things I put on my tubes is a flat sensor bung, and when laying it on the tube, there are gaps between it and the tube that have to be filled.  I thought I would give that a shot.  One side came out so-so and the other I ended up melting the 1/8" flat stock back when I tried to push the puddle over to it.
Reply:much better!try 30a moreSqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Read all the replies and weather I agree or disagree with the remarks is not necessary to comment on...I weld aluminum almost exclusively everyday. My first request is you make sure you have a clean piece of aluminum as Terry talked about. The picture you shared looks like there is something on the metal....I don't like using a wire wheel because you usually make the surface dirtier after your done than before....if your not sure your metal is clean a new piece of scotch brite pad will take any oxidation off and then wipe with a clean cloth and either acetone or Alcohol... In your case since your just learning AC aluminum just get the right metal to start with and you can just wipe it and weld.  I would us a 3/32 pure tungsten if you have a transformer machine and a red thoriated tungsten if its an inverter...there are 10 different tungstentypes you can use with an inverter but Thoriated works pretty good....try a fairly sharp prep to start with and hold a tight clearance to start....The smaller filler willbe easier to tack with also. I typically key up on the weld joint and hit it hard enough to create a puddle and then slide the filler in from the side keeping it close to the object being welded as opposed to coming in from the top.....When your ready to weld be accurate and quick with your dabs....being lazy sometimes lets the filler start to melt before it gets to the puddle....Its all practice, but preparation is everything with aluminum..... PS......Dress the tungsten after any dips in the puddle before continuing.....Good luck and practice practice practice  Last edited by B_C; 01-11-2015 at 10:12 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:B_C, no fair, you got a dynasty 350 dx running on 3-phase power (I think). That thing practically welds on its own!  Darn near has Artificial Intelligence!   1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Really.....thats a good one....My Dynasty is running 220 single phase and I think I welded the parts in the picture with my old welder......lol  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:B_C those parts are damn sexy....what AC balance do you typically run at work? I ask because over at the AWS forum I've been advised to run around 60% EN or less, but inverters will go up to 85% which I've never had much luck at.
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarB_C, no fair, you got a dynasty 350 dx running on 3-phase power (I think). That thing practically welds on its own!  Darn near has Artificial Intelligence!
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawOscar,  seems you are making excuses to mask lack of skill.   I watched Shovelon make x-ray quality welds on both Chinese machines I have and Zapster does everything with a transformer that is probably older than he is.  .Originally Posted by zapsterUmmmmmNot quite....Machine is early 80'S vintage...I am late 50'S vintage.But we both still perform as advertised....zap!
Reply:""Really.....thats a good one....My Dynasty is running 220 single phase and I think I welded the parts in the picture with my old welder......lol""Hi,Real nice pic of welding consistency -'like a machine!' is what a welder friend of mine would say to describe a weld he was particularly pleased about....Just curious about the "old welder" description?What make/model is it and the real reason for using it on that job?1. Just decided to give it a workout to clean some of the cobwebs OR?2. Just missed hearing that 'eazy on the ears' transformerarc??My bets on 2.
Reply:Originally Posted by beboB_C those parts are damn sexy....what AC balance do you typically run at work? I ask because over at the AWS forum I've been advised to run around 60% EN or less, but inverters will go up to 85% which I've never had much luck at.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BZap's machine is (stop me here if I'm wrong) 50% EN, 60 cycle, sine wave. Because the low voltage/ high amperage drops to zero 120 times a second, and nothing remains of an arc but low current/ high voltage/high frequency which serves little purpose but to maintain the arc. The arc starts easier from the clean, pointed tungsten in EN half of the cycle, than it does in the work negative half. Cleaning action is different with sine wave/ transformer based machines. Very clean metal will return the arc more easily than the electrically insulated dirty, oxidized aluminum. Such machines want aluminum to be very clean.Inverter based machines with square wave reverse direction of flow so suddenly the ionization of the gas doesn't fail. The still ionized gas is a very good conductor. EP portion of the cycle is easily started. I would guess you could compare 50% sine wave balance to 70% square wave balance. At 60% Electrode Negative My Dynasty consumes tungsten very rapidly at high amperage. Pro Set places balance at 75%. Much of the time that works very well.
Reply:I don't understand the Syncrowave type machine. I guess they use switching to reverse flow quickly. I do know 69% is on the side of too much cleaning action in a Dynasty, where 50% seems too little in a Dialarc HF. Set the Dynasty on 60%, I ruin the tip of my tungsten Quickly, but it seems I can weld aluminum through some ugly corruption. IE I have some old extruded complex shaped stock it has been outdoors twenty years. It welds well without cleaning at 59%.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.