3G simulation qualification test.

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So,I went and bought a 2' piece of 1/2"x 10" flat bar, and 2' of 3/4"x 8" flat bar.And my Instructor threw it on his track torch.And then we shall shear them into 6" pieces.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:First pass, second pass weave, then two stringers on top of that.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Then 3 stringers on top of that, then a 4 bead cap.And it passed VT.Graded by a AWS CWI.It'll be bent, root and face this week, and I'll let you guys know if it passes.... Last edited by AKweldshop; 01-28-2015 at 02:31 AM.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Looking good. The bend test will be the real proof. As I recall (and it's been a long time) our test plates were 7 inches long. We cut off and discarded 1/2" from each end before cutting the rest into 2" coupons, two being root bends and one a face bend.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:1/2 and 3/4 seems to be an odd choice for thickness. From what I recall AWS D1.1 is usually done on 3/8" for limited thickness that get you qualified up to 3/4" or 1" that qualifies you for unlimited thickness. They do list a qualification between 3/8" and 1" that would qualify you for 2x the thickness of the piece. I could understand that for the 1/2", but I'd just go 1" and be done with it vs the 3/4" unless there was a specific reason for that thickness..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Around here the structural D1.1 tests are 1” thick. Years ago it was 2-G, 3-G, and 4-G. For some reason they dropped the 2-G test. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Looks good.Surprised the ironworker works in the extreme cold.  They don't use the big shear at my LWS when it gets cold, something about the fluid viscosity and blowing seals, least that's what they tell me."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Don't see any reason why that won't bend. You're ready to head to Point Thompson and make some money! Or you could try the NANA shop in Big Lake.Last edited by TimmyTIG; 01-28-2015 at 10:42 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW1/2 and 3/4 seems to be an odd choice for thickness. From what I recall AWS D1.1 is usually done on 3/8" for limited thickness that get you qualified up to 3/4" or 1" that qualifies you for unlimited thickness. They do list a qualification between 3/8" and 1" that would qualify you for 2x the thickness of the piece. I could understand that for the 1/2", but I'd just go 1" and be done with it vs the 3/4" unless there was a specific reason for that thickness.
Reply:I just left Pt Thompson.  Most of the welding being done there now is with CH2. Still some pipe welding being done there.  Get on Indeed.com and register and you will get regular updates of positions coming open.  I don't think you have to be certified but do need to pass the inhouse test.  Last year Doyon put in a 23 mile long 18" pipeline in 4 months.  I think this years project is the 5 mile, high pressure natural gas line.  There is a lot of work on the slope again this year! Originally Posted by AKweldshopThe only, and only reason i bought 1/2" and 3/4", is that is all they had at the metal shop.I gave $20 a foot for that stuff.And it will make 8 test pieces.$10 a test is not bad just for practice.Thanks for the tip.Practice, practice, practice.....I want you to know, this is the FIRST 3g I've ever welded out, with 1/8" rod.I did one with 3/32", and one with duel-shield last week.So I'm still a novice.It wasn't that cold, only 4 deg.....Thanks Samm.I'd like to work at the NANA shop, only their over 45mins away....Thanks Timmy.
Reply:Where are you taking the class John?
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI'd like to work at the NANA shop, only their over 45mins away....Thanks Timmy.
Reply:Originally Posted by cwhWhere are you taking the class John?
Reply:Roger.  Question withdrawn.  Innernet research commencing.I'd do the Palmer to Big Lake commute 5 times before even considering the Palmer to ANC commute.  And twice on Sunday.
Reply:Sounds like you're 45 minutes from everywhere you need to get to. Go to the slope, they'll pay you to drive.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPAround here the structural D1.1 tests are 1” thick. Years ago it was 2-G, 3-G, and 4-G. For some reason they dropped the 2-G test.
Reply:Originally Posted by docweldera couple year's ago i had to take the d1.1 and it still is 1" thick. vert and overhead only. i was surprised they let me use 1/8" rods. when i took the nyc dept of buildings test i had to use 5/32"
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPAround here the structural D1.1 tests are 1” thick. Years ago it was 2-G, 3-G, and 4-G. For some reason they dropped the 2-G test.
Reply:Gotta love a tract torch man.....Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:The root bend cracked......Back to practicing. Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Something looks way wrong in that picture. Your cracks look to be well outside of where I'd expect the edges of your weld to be on something that thin. The weld itself may have cracked, but something else looks like it cracked as well, possibly in the HAZ zone. I'm wondering if temps in your location are playing a part of this for some reason..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:In one of the early posts you indicate that it was cut with a "track torch".     I can see the HAZ from that cut along the beveled edge.    Aren't you supposed to grind off that area before beveling for the root?    I suspect that's why it failed.Dan----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200Xcrappy deal but something dont look right as others stated i had test break similair and it wasnt the root that failed but lack of fusion from the second pass that caused the break.High Octane Welding
Reply:Originally Posted by dbstooIn one of the early posts you indicate that it was cut with a "track torch".     I can see the HAZ from that cut along the beveled edge.    Aren't you supposed to grind off that area before beveling for the root?    I suspect that's why it failed.Dan
Reply:Was that mild steel? I didn't read the whole thing yet.... I guess if it was not mild steel it may have buggered the iron worker blades. I was taught over 1/2'' thick you will need to side bend the coupons. Could be have some how quenched the steel by the cold environment in one way or another. I was also told to never weld over blue, (or black spots but that's a different story). When your polish your weld area up with a wire wheel or grind when its too hot and turns the metal blue you will run into problems. I will use a hand brush religiously but I cant remember the last time I used a wire wheel to clean between passes. From the look of your beads it should have cleaned up nicely without the need for wire wheeling. JMO hope I could help.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Did any of them do good or did you only cut that one out?
Reply:Ok thanks, now its clear, that's f'ed up, got a pic of the bender? I hope we hear the opinions of people who tests weld day in and out. its a variable in there somewhere and I don't think it was the welding. I still want to say side bends would  have helped, I believe it was a question on our red seal exam, 3/8s thick steel was root and face bends, and 1/2" and up are to be side bends. Something about the not fitting in a bend tester. I also want to say john you have raw talent and you will be up there with fieldres one day. I don't think it was your welding, not entirely  it was something else that went wrong.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:dbstoo Are you talking about the scale caused by the torch? The backing strips and edges look ground in the prepped piece to me. The top of the 1/2" plates might have used a bit of light cleaning, but the sides and backing looked good..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:you didn't cool that in a water tank, did you? Maybe a snow bank?
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247I also want to say john you have raw talent and you will be up there with fieldres one day.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYeah that's no BS! That kid is amazing, then for his age, WOW!There's got to be more to this story! OK sure the root broke, but why did the coupon break 1” or so from the weld zone?
Reply:I don't know Dave, that's all over my head. Every time I ever took a test, they just handed me the plates. 99.9 % of the time they were already tacked up. All I had to do was weld.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI don't know Dave, that's all over my head. Every time I ever took a test, they just handed me the plates. 99.9 % of the time they were already tacked up. All I had to do was weld.
Reply:I pulled this up too, it doesn't explain it - it's just a question/answer log.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247Ok thanks, now its clear, that's f'ed up, got a pic of the bender? I hope we hear the opinions of people who tests weld day in and out. its a variable in there somewhere and I don't think it was the welding. I still want to say side bends would  have helped, I believe it was a question on our red seal exam, 3/8s thick steel was root and face bends, and 1/2" and up are to be side bends. Something about the not fitting in a bend tester. I also want to say john you have raw talent and you will be up there with fieldres one day. I don't think it was your welding, not entirely  it was something else that went wrong.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYeah that's no BS! That kid is amazing, then for his age, WOW!There's got to be more to this story! OK sure the root broke, but why did the coupon break 1” or so from the weld zone?
Reply:Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Looks like you're on the right track.Cut and bevel so that the original rolled direction is correct.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:So, as my pics and drawing indicates, on this 3g test, vertical, my weld was running parallel with the grains. YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY!!!I asked the inspector about that, and he said that's how its supposed to be according to the codebook.A quick comparison to how this metal was cut and welded--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Say I had 2 pieces of 3/8" x 2" flatbar. 1 foot long each.And I welded them end to end, to make a 2 foot long piece of flatbar.If I understand correctly, that is how the welding test pieces are supposed to be laid out.Now if I took those same pieces, and laid them side by said, to make a 1 foot long pices of 3/8'x4" flatbar (So to speak)The first one would bending like a guy would roll flat bar into a hoop.The second one is like a martial artist breaking boards. He splits the wood with the grain.So my test pieces are like two 2x4's laying side by side, welded together, strip cut out, and bent. The wood be very prone to tear out along the toe of the weld, as metal would do also.AM I MAKING SENSE?????Last edited by AKweldshop; 02-04-2015 at 01:51 PM.Reason: spellingJust a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveLooks like you're on the right track.Cut and bevel so that the original rolled direction is correct.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThat is not how these plates were cut.Please read thru my latest posts, and see what I'm trying to illustrate.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopSo, as my pics and drawing indicates, on this 3g test, vertical, my weld was running parallel with the grains. YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY!!!I asked the inspector about that, and he said that's how its supposed to be according to the codebook.A quick comparison to how this metal was cut and welded--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Say I had 2 pieces of 3/8" x 2" flatbar. 1 foot long each.And I welded them end to end, to make a 2 foot long piece of flatbar.If I understand correctly, that is how the welding test pieces are supposed to be laid out.So my test pieces are like two 2x4's laying side by side, welded together, strip cut out, and bent. The would be very prone to tear out along the toe of the weld, as metal would do also.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI thought you were re-cutting to bevel the ends - my mistake.The book is quite clear based on how I read it.  Beveling and then welding parallel to the metal's original manufacture direction of rolling is incorrect.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThat makes sense!Your welding tests should be like welding flat bar end to end, not side by side.
Reply:All this to me really doesn't explain the failure outside of the weld. I know from a friend who welds on high strength steel cranes, that if you weld on dead cold high carbon crane material, then put it back outside, you can literally shatter the steel like glass. He brought in a section he had to cut out of a boom some one else welded a light bracket on in the winter using the wrong procedures. They'd simply rolled the crane into the shop to do the weld from where it had been sitting outside in below zero temps, did the weld with no preheat/post heat, and parked it back in the lot when done. The magnaflux he did on the piece in class was impressive. It looked like a car windshield that shattered.I'm wondering if cold might have played a part in this part of the failure. Many cheap steels are often remelt and just have to meet a minimum standard. If this was the case with yours, and the plate sat outside in the cold, were then welded, that might have caused the material to take on a quench at the edge of the HAZ. It would have been possibly even worse if they were taken right back out in the cold afterwards while still cooling.Looking at your coupons, I doubt they were cold rolled steel of some sort. I'd guess that would rule out some sort of medium to high carbon steel. I can't remember if the 4140 bar stock I bought that was annealed had scale on it or not though. Most of the higher carbon bar stock I've seen usually has a pretty high polish on it and isn't hard to spot vs mild steel.The broken piece looks a lot like the grainy look of hardened steel when it breaks. Hard to get a really good look at it in those picts. I wonder how that area files? Something hardened should resist a file.My other thought would be if it was really cold when bent. That's the reason they do charpy tests on steel to determine how ductile the weld area is after welding. I would think your inspector would know more about this in your area. I'd think he'd know what would happen if he tried to bend a cold coupon, but if the steel was mystery mix, it might break at a colder temp than typical mild steel..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAll this to me really doesn't explain the failure outside of the weld.