Price Variances of Large Engine Drives

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Been seriously looking at getting a new machine here in the near future. I have looked at the 200D Pipeliner, Classic 300D, and The Vantage 300's and 400's. I have decided that the vantage 400 is going to fit me the best. I'm just curious as to why they are cheaper than the Classic machines? For instance at my LWS the 300D is $500 more than the Vantage 400. Why is this? I assume the original generator style of the pure DC machines costs more to produce? Also, why is the 200D priced higher than the 300D? The 200D has less HP and obviously no AC power, so why the steeper tag?
Reply:Weel, I cant speak for the Vantage, or Classic, but if your referring to the Pipeliner 200D, I have had the pleasure of running a diesel SA200. It was damn near exotic.... Its built like a Tiger Tank, makes our Bobcats at work look like toasters... Their built for rugged conditions, and literally burn rod for HOURS.. The Classic, and Vantage are more versatile machines. I imagine they use a different DC exciter setup, it even says "Not Recommended" for TIG anything with the Pipeliner...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:One of the reasons the older design machines are more $$$$.  There is a heck of a lot more moving parts and copper in a 200D or 300D vs a vantange 300.  But they are designed to run and run and run and run.   The vantage is a great machine but its a gaint computer board attached to a generator.  I own both a lincoln pure DC generator and a AC generator/inverter.  Both weld entirely differently.  The Sa-250 comes out for the pipe work and the Commander 300 runs the wire feeder and structural stick work.  The vantages is a ok all around machine and power source where the 300D is a great rod burning machine.  Depending on what you plan on welding would depend on the best machine for you.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:More (beef) copper, all pure DC machine.  The new 200D and 300D has finer arc control as well.  If wanted that on the old SA200 you had to add the Fowler setup.  They still don't have the extra AC output though like the Vantage and won't have a true CV output for wire welding so just depends on what most of your work is what is best for you.  For a bit more you can get the Vantage 500.  I'd price machines not just at Lubbock but Dallas, OKC and Enid as well to compare prices some too.
Reply:What to buy?... I'll chime in if thats ok.  First, my opinions means nothing.  I'm not a smart person and I don't know nothing except the few things I think I know.  I own a new Vantage 300.  Its got like 104 hours on it right now.  Its setting out in the garage on my roller buggy and waiting.  Its waiting to see if my present machine (my 200D converted A/C machine) goes down.  If it goes down then the Vantage will be coming off stand-by and going back on my truck.  Until then - its waiting.   All i can say to you is this.....Make certain the machine you buy is rated for what you want to do.  Make sure the machine is rated for the duty cycle you need.  IMO if you do that you'll be happy with whatever you decide to get.On a generator or other machine make certain the exciter, or the auxiliary power, etc, is rated for what you intend to do with it, and also weld.  If the welder and the power source is rated for the duty cycle you need then I'd say you'll like it.  Whatever it turns out to be. lolIf it's not rated for that?   Then I'd say you'll not be so happy in the end.  Ask your sales representative if his machine will "out-do its rated duty cycle".  If he says it will then get his promise in writing...    If he says you need to observe the rated duty cycle then plan for on doing that now, before you buy.We all want you to be happy with whatever you do get. lolBesides saying that, there ain't nothing I can say that means anything. lol  good luck manLaterLast edited by slowhand; 02-10-2011 at 05:50 PM.
Reply:Thank y'all for the additional info. I decided on the Vantage 400 with a Perkins and I think it's king to be a great fit for me. And I figured that Copper was the reason for the higher prices over the vantages.  But I still don't understand why the 200d is priced higher than the 300d? The 300d has a larger powerplant and some AC power, seems it would carry the higher tag?
Reply:I'm curious so I ask:Can you name a machine that can compete with the 200d?What other machine is offered today for me to buy other than the 200d for what it is supposed to do?I can't name one. lolLater manLast edited by slowhand; 02-11-2011 at 05:50 PM.
Reply:slowhand I thougth you liked your vantage.Vantage 300 - My first thoughts --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi guys. I've been visiting here for awhile and wanted to register today to tell you guys about my new Vantage 300.I'm a pipeline welder with close to 35 years now and a long time union member. I must say I have been looking down my noise at the Vantage and considered it be substandard just because it doesn't have a generator on it and I just knew it won't weld pipe. After a 7 1/2 year stinch of owning a 200D and this year - working a job with nothing but contractor owned 200D's I bought a new Vantage 300 to use its 3 phase auxiliary power to run my new Miller XMT-350 inverter I've put on my rig. I know that might sound strange to some of you guys but I've got my reasons I think. In the 5 weeks since I loaded my new Vantage on my rig I haven't be able to use it. I've been running beads and hot passes with this contractors tack rig and his 200D's, until today. Me and my pardner tied in a creek crossing with our rigs. It was raining so I left the XMT under its cover and used the Vantage. For the first time.20" x .375 wall xray 1104. A normal pipeline weld. I set it on 280 on the big dial which put me on 50 with good space. 65 hot pass, 55-60 fill and about 50 cap. Dig was on 6. I liked the bead but though the dig was a little high for the fill and cap.Second weld was a 20" x .500 "T" (not transitioned) to 375 wall pipe. Somehow I wound up too tight and what I would call a bunch of high low in the top, quite a bit in the side and the bottom wasn't too bad. I softened up from about 2:00 to 4:30 but I just welded the top and the bottom tight. The heat was about the same as the first weld but I had turned the dig down to about 4. The cap still seamed a little wet. My space was only about a loose dime. Way too tight for a weld like that.Third weld was on the other side of that un-transitioned "T" to a cut. This time I made sure I had some space. Probably a loose penny or a tight nickle, but still I had lots of high low just as before. I tried this one with the dig on "0". The only bead I was able to look at was that first "T" weld. I must say I was very much impressed. The slag was brown and the weld was humped up. My pardner ( using his own 200G) was as I knew it would be. Black, flat, but good. He too had to look and came out smiling at how good that Vantage had done. He knows what my welds looks like since we've been welding together now since April. He knew, just as I did, my weld with the Vantage looked better than it would of looked with a 200D. Far better. I came out saying it looked like I had good space. I was smiling. This thing can weld for sure.Watching the Vantage weld through my dark glass I can only say - "don't put the Vantage down until you've tried one". They can weld. I have no doubt. I don't know how to set it up right but I feel I like the dig between 2 and 4 on a day like today. If I were running one in the pipegang I would probably want the dig on up more, and on the firing line - then down some. It stacks iron well and keeps the slag back easy.The arc is smooth and the spit balls are much smaller than any 200D I've had my hands on. My pardner said it reminds him of welding with an SA200 and the old style 8010 rods when they first came out. I agree. He also said after burning his first rod with it.... " I can see why those guys are liking these machines". "Boy is it smooth".I hope to get to weld with my rig some more but it looks like it will be awhile. We're going back to laying pipe tomorrow so I'll be on the tack rig and their 200Ds again. Oh well. Later --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Last edited by slowhand; 09-30-2010 a
Reply:Originally Posted by coreshield8slowhand I thougth you liked your vantage.Vantage 300 - My first thoughts
Reply:Originally Posted by slowhandOuch!!!! Now that hurts.   You trying to hurt me or what?   Did I miss something?  I don't care what you say dude.  I'm all grow'd up and my shoulders are huge so I can take it.  I'm a big boy don't you know.  Yea, the Vantage is a pretty good machine, but IMO I'd rather weld with my XMT350, but like I said - - - - - thats only my opinion.  And my opinion means nothing in the real world. lolMy 200D?  Its still laying here against the wall in the garage.  You want it????  If you do let me know.  Its for sale man.   Later