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So if any of you remember, a while back when I was looking at mig welders I came across the fact that the New Powermig 210 MP Lincoln had a mig wire roller feed that would bounce or oscillate up and down while running. Long story short there are some videos online showing this, smartdave a member on here has a video showing it on one of my other posts and i saw it in person at demo days. I was shocked lincolns QC would allow this and I created a fairly big rant about it......Miller was not present like they should have been on demo day at Matheson and I was not able to look the new 211 over as I did the Lincoln; silly me just assumed it was not a problem. Well fast forward to some recent postings on youtube giving an up close and personal under the hood review of the 211 one can see it is doing the SAME thing as the Lincoln.If you fast forward to the 8:20 mark and watch for a short period you can see a nice close up of it doing the same thing. Needless to say this machine has a cult following and is held in high regard by many and I have never heard of this causing a problem. To be honest the miller movement may not be quite as bad as the Lincoln I saw in person but it is close. So maybe I made a lot to do about nothing but regardless of how much of a problem it may or may not pose I feel I needed to be fair to Big red and point this out.
Reply:Thanks for sharing this, I can't understand for the life of me, why there isn't quality control any more? It's like they don't care, sell 'em, ship 'em out and if someone complains we MIGHT do something about it.
Reply:Are you sure its not designed to do that? if it was supposed run true, they would have a lot of warranty failures, and I think it would be reported widely. This almost looks to me like it was designed to oscillate. Has me wondering if the engineers didn't do this to somehow prevent bird nests. Especially since it shows up from two different manufacturers.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Interesting... I would think that the tension spring would help to maintain a constant pressure on the wire between the rollers, to an extent, but it would be illuminating to see if there is a variation in wire feed speed at the gun nozzle.I've never noticed any runout in the drive rolls of my MM212 (old tapped version), but the '212 uses a somewhat different drive mechanism.As an aside, I'm not a big fan of machines that use a smooth upper roller (ball bearing). I like to have a pair of grooved rollers.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Are you sure its not designed to do that? if it was supposed run true, they would have a lot of warranty failures, and I think it would be reported widely. This almost looks to me like it was designed to oscillate. Has me wondering if the engineers didn't do this to somehow prevent bird nests. Especially since it shows up from two different manufacturers.
Reply:If I'm not mistaking that is a soft start type feature To reduce the input surge ( draw of electric power) at start of welding the welding process.
Reply:Originally Posted by tinker001If I'm not mistaking that is a soft start type feature To reduce the input surge ( draw of electric power) at start of welding the welding process.
Reply:On a related note, I called Lincoln Electric on Monday to ask them about the drive roller wobble issue. He said newer units havebeen changed to fix the problem. He also said if I bought an "old" stock 210MP that had the problem part, it was covered under warranty.Before I take my 210MP home, I will be unboxing it at Airgas and testing the roller. If it has a wobbly roller, I will refuse it and insist on one that has the newer part installed to fix the problem.Last edited by MoltenMetalMaven; 02-19-2016 at 12:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoltenMetalMavenOn a related note, I called Lincoln Electric on Monday to ask them about the drive roller wobble issue. He said newer units havebeen changed to fix the problem. He also said if I bought an "old" stock 210MP that had the problem part, it was covered under warranty.
Reply:I should also add that I got the same answer as MoltenMetalMave from corporate on a few calls. Sometimes I like to ask the same question to multiple people feeling if I get the same answer twice then it MIGHT be true.
Reply:Originally Posted by tinker001If I'm not mistaking that is a soft start type feature To reduce the input surge ( draw of electric power) at start of welding the welding process.
Reply:It's not without flaws. I found that the motor shaft was off about 0.022", enough to sometimes cause the wire to not line up with the grooves in the roller. Miller wanted to replace the whole motor, where as I simply added shims to the spacer slots in the roller. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Close the door, if it works don't mess with it
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1 @ about 8:30 into the video..
Reply:Thats my video, and I assure you the welder welds really well. IDK what causes that, I didnt even notice it until people mentioned it in the comments of that video[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Ok I have to admit I haven't watched the video or used a new Miller 211 or Lincoln 210p but after seeing the video I would demand they machine the wire spools and press fit them to the feeder maybe even put a splined output shaft and splined wire spool on there than put them on a spin balancer at the very least a static balancer and put runout papers in with each machines, this was a sarcastic reply but I figured I shouldnt comment with out seeing the video, not to ruin any of your days the food on the McDonald's commercials doesn't look like the food you'll get, but it all builds a turd
Reply:Well look at it go. My cheap HF units only turn in a circle I guess you have to pay big $ for it to oscillate like that. Kind of sad when a cheap plastic drive unit has less run out than a "nice" cast aluminum one.My "collection":Homemade Stick WelderVictor O/A TorchAC 225Ideal Arc 250HF 90 Amp Flux CoreHF Mig 170Solar 2020 Plasma CutterPower i-Mig 140EHarris O/A torchHF Dual Mig 131140STAlpha Tig 200x
Reply:That's garbage! I would be sending that machine back to the store. Pretty sad when you have to inspect a brand new machine at the store to make sure it passes QC.
Reply:Look around 11:41. No it's not supposed to do that. That's constantly adjusting the roller pressure as you feed wire. .Kind of funny Lane puts a note saying good job miller next to itSent from mobile. Not responsible for TyposLast edited by soutthpaw; 02-20-2016 at 12:16 AM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Believe it or not, the wire oscillating or vibrating as it enters the puddle *can* be by design. Take, for example the Tip-Tig welder.For those of you who don't know, Tip-Tig is a company that has produced a TIG torch that feeds wire in to the puddle, rather than adding filler metal by hand. There is an induction heater that heats the wire before it reaches the puddle, and a vibratory motion as well. It helps the puddle wet out better.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderBelieve it or not, the wire oscillating or vibrating as it enters the puddle *can* be by design. Take, for example the Tip-Tig welder.For those of you who don't know, Tip-Tig is a company that has produced a TIG torch that feeds wire in to the puddle, rather than adding filler metal by hand. There is an induction heater that heats the wire before it reaches the puddle, and a vibratory motion as well. It helps the puddle wet out better.
Reply:Ah. Must've missed the location. Nope, that doesn't apply here.
Reply:I would have to think that the oscillation is by design. I can't imagine that much movement being a flaw. It could be something which prevents deforming of the wire and/or a self cleaning mechanism of the rollers. If you notice...There is little movement when it moves slowly and yet when the speed picks up....The oscillation begins. Remember...that on a mig mechanism for the roll of wire, there is even a brake to stop the wire from advancing once stop welding. If the brake is disabled....Then the wire continues to advance once you release the trigger. That said...at faster wire speeds...I am guessing that there is enough momentum in the wire roll that you could oscillate the roller and by doing so then you probably get a self cleaning of the rolls plus some less binding of the wire in the groove of the wire rolls. Of course I could be wrong. But...I seriously doubt that this oscillation slipped pass the Quality Controls at Miller Welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tim9I would have to think that the oscillation is by design. I can't imagine that much movement being a flaw. It could be something which prevents deforming of the wire and/or a self cleaning mechanism of the rollers. If you notice...There is little movement when it moves slowly and yet when the speed picks up....The oscillation begins. Remember...that on a mig mechanism for the roll of wire, there is even a brake to stop the wire from advancing once stop welding. If the brake is disabled....Then the wire continues to advance once you release the trigger. That said...at faster wire speeds...I am guessing that there is enough momentum in the wire roll that you could oscillate the roller and by doing so then you probably get a self cleaning of the rolls plus some less binding of the wire in the groove of the wire rolls. Of course I could be wrong. But...I seriously doubt that this oscillation slipped pass the Quality Controls at Miller Welds.
Reply:"Intended design" must be another term for "we don't care if it turns true or not", it's good enough for us.The roller issue has turn me off of the 210MP towards a Miller 211. For strictly GMAW of steel, which would be better? The 210MP has adjustable inductance, run in speed and a spot timer that the 211 doesn't. Maybe the 211 automatically sets the inductance and run in speed to the right values given the knob settings for 95%+ of the time. No use have extra settings if they aren't really needed. Then the spot timer seem like the only useful extra feature. Which one MIG welds steel better?Red vs Blue?Mexico vs USA?
Reply:Looks like the miller may be similar as far as drive roll run out is concerned. I just went out and put a dial indicator on a Lincoln 210 MP. The drive roll that is on it is running out about .014". The drive roll is roughly .875" in the bottom of the groove. It was mentioned that the wire speed would oscillate as the rolls turned. Some one can check my math but by my calculations a setting of 250 inches per minute is about 91 RPM. At that rate I calculate a variation in wire speed of about 4 inches per minute or about .044" per revolution. I'm not much of a migger but I can't see that variation as much of an issue to me. Others mileage may vary. IMHO this issue is being overthought but it is new to me so time will tell.P.S. Blue or Red pick the one that compliments your aura.---Meltedmetal
Reply:I've run about 20lbs of wire through my Lincoln 210MP without an issue. The machine isn't a year old yet, but it has the same wobble as everyone mentions. I never had one issue with wire feeds on .035 or .025 wire.
Reply:Great, now I'm going to have to check my machines as well. (they weld fine, BTW)Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:I'm NOT going to check my Millermatic (different model, anyway) because it feeds fine... and if there is wobble, it will bother me (even if it doesn't cause any issues). Originally Posted by con_fuse9Great, now I'm going to have to check my machines as well. (they weld fine, BTW)
Reply:i wonder if it is the drive shaft that causes, or if it has to do with the way the roll indexes the shaft.what happened to the three-spline sort of drives? never noticed a problem there. but i'll sure be looking next time im in the shop!!!bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by WorldPowerLabsI'm NOT going to check my Millermatic (different model, anyway) because it feeds fine... and if there is wobble, it will bother me (even if it doesn't cause any issues).
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmani wonder if it is the drive shaft that causes, or if it has to do with the way the roll indexes the shaft.what happened to the three-spline sort of drives? never noticed a problem there. but i'll sure be looking next time im in the shop!!! |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:09:36