Cutting tools pros/cons

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It seems clear that I am going to need to step up my cutting game if I am going to keep at this welding thing. I am considering my options. I did some searching on here, but didn't find a thread that sort of summed it all up. I would love to get any input from y'all on aspects or opinions that I may be missing.I have a 14" abrasive chop-saw. It's okay on thin/small stuff, but really slow on bigger stuff. Anything thicker than maybe 3/16" or wider than an inch or so, and it really bogs down, takes forever to finish the cut, and wears out the wheels quickly. Also, it's only good for "cross" cuts, not "rip" cuts, to borrow the woodworking term.I have a 4.25" angle grinder with cutoff wheels. Great for cutting off. Terrible for longer straight cuts. Thicker metal wears out the wheels very quickly.The single best cutting tool I have used is a Diablo ferrous metal cutting blade in a circular saw. It can do any kind of cut that I require, including bevels. It leaves a really nice finish on the edge that requires hardly any touchup. The main down-side is that it wears out quickly enough that it is eventually going to get really expensive to keep replacing it.Other options on the table:O/A torch. Requires more skill to use than cutoff wheels. Up-front cost of tanks is non-trivial. Potential safety issue storing volatile and high-pressure gasses. Very versatile tool that is useful for brazing, heating, welding, as well as cutting. Finish on the cut edge, as well as precision of the cut, depends heavily on the skill of the operator. Portable (away from electricity).Plasma torch. Very expensive--up-front cost probably a deal-breaker. Single-use item vs. O/A. No gas storage or reoccurring gas costs. Finish on the cut edge, as well as precision of the cut, depends heavily on the skill of the operator. Requires air compressor, which I have, but I'm not sure how much airflow is required.Band saw or portable band saw. I actually know very little about these, as I've never owned one. They're cheaper than an O/A setup. I don't know how fast they cut or how long the blades last. Can they do "rip" style cuts, or only cutoff?Low-RPM cutting (not abrasive) chop-saw. Never used. Don't know much about. One down-side for sure is that it can't do long, straight ("rip" style) cuts. Only good for cutoff.Last edited by joshuabardwell; 12-19-2012 at 01:24 PM.
Reply:All the tools you list have good and bad points. I have all of them with the exception of the carbide saw, though I've used them as well and wouldn't mind owning one if a job allowed it.You don't list what sorts of things you want to do. OA and plasma wouldn't be my 1st choice for doing accurate cuts on medium sized square or rectangular tube for example. There my bandsaw or carbide saw would be my 1st choice. Ripping sheets would be possible with a vertical bandsaw, or plasma, possibly OA on thicker stuff, but wouldn't work with the carbide saw.Of the 4 you list, OA would be my #1 choice simply because of versatility cutting and heating. Plasma would win if I had to cut lots of thin sheet steel or sheets of alum and stainless. Bandsaw or carbide saw would be my choice for accurate cuts to length.... Simple answer, get them all!  Better yet get two, they're small... .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I say band saw and OA would be the most useful. I have just about every cutter you can think of except laser and mostly use the bandsaw and angle grinder. If you buy the coil stock for the bandsaw and learn how to silver solder the blades, you will not have much you cant cut. Just my .02
Reply:Bandsaw! Absolutely the most used tool in my shop!
Reply:Definitely I agree, Bandsaw is the best! any project you can think of ...
Reply:I have a horizontal band saw for sale.....I used to use it a lot for cutting rectangular steel tubing to length...and for mitering the ends, usually to a 45 degree.I made some litle guide jigs that slip over the end of the common rectangular tube sizes that I use....and use them for templates to guide my Powermax30 (less than $1200) plasma against. The cuts are very nice....need about 15 to 20 seconds clean up with an angle grinder....and are way more productive (faster) than using the band saw. The saw simply collects dust in my shop.The band saw will not cut shapes, will not cut large pieces, will not cut intricate details...the plasma will.The carbide circular saw is great for straight cuts....no contours or intricate details...and it is really slow on thicker materials.Oxy - fuel is great for almost all steel cutting...but requires some operator skill. It has the added benefit of being able to heat things as well...but won't cut aluminum or stainless or copper or brass.Plasma costs more up front....but is by far the most used cutting tool in my shop. Over time it proves to be the most cost effective solution.Jim Colt
Reply:Well, folks, I have been tempted by a used multi-process TIG/stick/plasma unit that I could have gotten at close to the price of a new plasma unit alone, but it turns out that my air compressor most likely won't cut the mustard. It's rated at 4.5 cfm, and I measured it at a more realistic 4.2 cfm. The plasma unit requires a minimum of 5 cfm. I am half-tempted to throw caution to the wind and try to go for it, but realistically, I think trying to cut with inadequate air flow will just be an exercise in frustration.I'm still hesitant about O/A.I guess that brings me to bandsaw! Given the price of floor saws, I suspect I'd be leaning more towards a quality portable unit.
Reply:Watch the 3 in one units with a plasma. Many of the problem machines are the ones that contain the plasma system. These have a very bad habit of blowing up. It would suck to buy one, and have it blow up at say 50 hrs, only to be out of warranty because you didn't use it much. That's the typical example of issues guys have had with these.Portable saws have their place, but so do stationary saws. One won't do everything the other will. I have both, and for some things one is definitely better than the other. I get very nice precise cuts with my horizontal band saw. My portaband will do OK, but it's not as easy to cut angles and miters for example. I'm also limited on how big a piece will fit in my Portaband as it's not one of the deep models. On the other hand my horizontal takes up quite a bit of space, and is only really a shop tool. You can't take it to the work if the work is bulky or large. If I had to pick one, it would be the stationary horizontal band saw. I can do most of the stuff my portable will with either a grinder and zip wheels or a sawzall. I can get very nice precise cuts over and over with almost no effort with the horz bandsaw, though miters take a bit to set up 1st.No big deal if you are uncomfortable with OA. Basic common sense will remove most of the hazards however..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I have a 14" saw, been in my shed for 5 years, I use my porta band, torch, and whizz wheels on a grinder. If I am doing shop fabrication I use the big Marvell saw in my buddys shop.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:What you're calling a low-RPM chopsaw is called a dry-cut saw.  If you're concerned about the cost of metal blades for your circular saw, you definitely want to skip the dry-cut saw for now.  Blades will cost between $40 and $180 depending on where you get them, brand, and what deal you luck into.  It's completely possible to screw that blade up on the first cut if you don't have your material clamped well, force it into the cut, etc.  I've done it, and I expect most other volume users of these saws have as well.  I love my dry-cut saw, but I'm running a business and it pays for itself in time saved and accuracy.  If I stopped welding professionally, the dry-cut saw would be one of the first tools to be sold.Portabands have their place, but you can usually get away with your cutoff wheel setup for the same jobs.  Portabands are slower than a torch for all but the thinnest materials.  My portaband is most useful on hollow materials like pipe and shaped tubing.  They don't make perfectly straight cuts until you learn how to guide them properly.  I use mine fairly often, but if I didn't have it I would still be fine.I'm kind of like Tozzi on the bandsaw.  I've got a 9" x 16" in the shop, and use it when it's convenient.  Most of my work is mobile and so it's of limited use to me.  A saw of that size takes up a lot of space, especially if you've got infeed and outfeed roller tables with it.  If I were a hobby welder, I'd buy a little HF 5" x 9" or whatever it is.  A small saw like that could be pretty useful.My personal opinion on plasma is that it's fast, loud, and would be most useful if you were cutting a lot of aluminum or stainless from sheet.  It requires similar skills to a torch.  You need a compressor which adds additional noise and expense, although most of us would use a compressor for a lot of other purposes also.  I deal mostly in steel, and the stainless I've done this past year wouldn't have lent itself to plasma (hundreds of thin cross-section 1" square tubes cut to length for a stainless fence).  The other thing about plasma is the amount of crap it throws into the atmosphere as it cuts.  Much more than a torch; in my opinion a respirator is required for use with a plasma if you value your lungs.  I don't own a plasma cutter and wouldn't own one if I was a hobbyist, either.  But maybe I'm a little bit of a scrooge.If I were you, and didn't need to weld with it, I'd buy a torch set and run it with oxygen and propane.  There are tons of threads around with details of that; basically, you'll want a Grade T hose and propane tips.  An acetylene regulator will do just fine with it.  Running propane gives you options on where you buy your fuel gas from, and a 20-pound BBQ cylinder will last through multiple oxygen tanks.  If I were a hobby welder interested in general metalworking and already had the tools you have, a torch set would be my next purchase.Last edited by tbone550; 12-21-2012 at 11:12 AM.
Reply:Hi, you may as well face facts, there is no one cut do-all metal cutting saw....they either cut across or longways, but never both.......unless you want to stand there at a bandsaw table and push the metal through the blade, then it will also go in a circular motion too.For heavy duty cutting and cheapness get a power hacksaw, or spend a lot more bucks and get a heavy horizontal bandsaw....that'll cut a 6" round bar and flat stock in a cross cut easily and it'll work by itself till finished.For sheet stuff cutting from a large sheet and up to 3/8" thick steel get a plasma cutter....Oxy/Acc is more versatile and will go thicker, but cost more in consumeables, IE gas and bottles etc.For thin sheet metal cutting straight or round get a nibbler.You can also use a bench shear to cut sheet metal, but only in a straight line....cheapest tool for sheet metal.Ian.
Reply:tbone....just to bring you up to speed...plasma has changed a lot in the last decade or so.-Plasma uses very low power  (about 8 cents an hour for a 45 amp air plasma)....and compared to a band saw cutting thin materials is quieter. I agree that old technology plasma's and big industrial plasma's are loud...but not an air plasma of 30 to 85 amps that would be used in a small shop. Most shops already have an air compressor....and the hobbyist needs one if he does not have one. The plasma will run on a compressor that is sized smaller than the plasma's cfm rating....and hobbyists are often fine with that as they generally do short cuts...not production cutting.-Fumes, smoke, etc between a plasma an an oxyfuel are essentially the same....except that the plasma vaporizes metal at approximately 6 times the speed....hence the appearance of more smoke. Proper control (a fan blowing it away, a smoke eater, or a watr table will control fumes very well.-Plasma is far less costly to run on carbon steel from gauge to 1" as compared to an oxyfuel. It is faster as well.....and you do not need experience (gas settings, standoff, what tip, etc) , simply rest the shield of a modern plasma torch on the material and drag the torch.....it can easily be guided by a template. Push the button and cut, release the button and it stops. Cuts throug rust, dirt paint and non ferrous metals without flinching.I am a bit biased....but a good quality plasma is the tool that most effectively cuts most metals...including structural shapes.Jim Colt  Originally Posted by tbone550What you're calling a low-RPM chopsaw is called a dry-cut saw.  If you're concerned about the cost of metal blades for your circular saw, you definitely want to skip the dry-cut saw for now.  Blades will cost between $40 and $180 depending on where you get them, brand, and what deal you luck into.  It's completely possible to screw that blade up on the first cut if you don't have your material clamped well, force it into the cut, etc.  I've done it, and I expect most other volume users of these saws have as well.  I love my dry-cut saw, but I'm running a business and it pays for itself in time saved and accuracy.  If I stopped welding professionally, the dry-cut saw would be one of the first tools to be sold.Portabands have their place, but you can usually get away with your cutoff wheel setup for the same jobs.  Portabands are slower than a torch for all but the thinnest materials.  My portaband is most useful on hollow materials like pipe and shaped tubing.  They don't make perfectly straight cuts until you learn how to guide them properly.  I use mine fairly often, but if I didn't have it I would still be fine.I'm kind of like Tozzi on the bandsaw.  I've got a 9" x 16" in the shop, and use it when it's convenient.  Most of my work is mobile and so it's of limited use to me.  A saw of that size takes up a lot of space, especially if you've got infeed and outfeed roller tables with it.  If I were a hobby welder, I'd buy a little HF 5" x 9" or whatever it is.  A small saw like that could be pretty useful.My personal opinion on plasma is that it's fast, loud, and would be most useful if you were cutting a lot of aluminum or stainless from sheet.  It requires similar skills to a torch.  You need a compressor which adds additional noise and expense, although most of us would use a compressor for a lot of other purposes also.  I deal mostly in steel, and the stainless I've done this past year wouldn't have lent itself to plasma (hundreds of thin cross-section 1" square tubes cut to length for a stainless fence).  The other thing about plasma is the amount of crap it throws into the atmosphere as it cuts.  Much more than a torch; in my opinion a respirator is required for use with a plasma if you value your lungs.  I don't own a plasma cutter and wouldn't own one if I was a hobbyist, either.  But maybe I'm a little bit of a scrooge.If I were you, and didn't need to weld with it, I'd buy a torch set and run it with oxygen and propane.  There are tons of threads around with details of that; basically, you'll want a Grade T hose and propane tips.  An acetylene regulator will do just fine with it.  Running propane gives you options on where you buy your fuel gas from, and a 20-pound BBQ cylinder will last through multiple oxygen tanks.  If I were a hobby welder interested in general metalworking and already had the tools you have, a torch set would be my next purchase.
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcolttbone....just to bring you up to speed...plasma has changed a lot in the last decade or so....
Reply:I have used propane/oxygen for 40 years.  I have tried most torches and have a hf. copy of a Harris that was the first torch I bought.  It has been a faithful companion on about 6 different service trucks.  I also have 2 Harris torches and a Victor now.  I have no complaints on any of them.  The Victor seems to use more gas that the Harris's.  I have seen Smith but have never used one.  I believe that any torch Brand will work.  I prefer the Harris because they were the original Propane developers I believe.  Propane is finicky to weld or braze with but it can be done as I have done it many times.  It also will leave a much better cut than acetylene, less clean up.  Plasma is okay but if I have to cut anything 3/8 or better, I grab the torch; and It is not portable.  The boys are also correct in it does leave the air unclean.  I also found that they are expensive to run as the consumables do not last long on heavy stuff and are expensive.  My .2 cents too.1938 Lincoln SA 600 1973 Lincoln SAE 3001984 Lincoln Sa 250DF800 Ford with 10 ton craneVictor and Harris torches.Rolair compressorSouthbend 13" latheAtlas Mill
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550If I were you, and didn't need to weld with it, I'd buy a torch set and run it with oxygen and propane.
Reply:I agree with you and I know where you are coming from. I always suggest to those just starting out buying equipment that a set of torches should come before almost anything else...certainly before a plasma. Just m,aking a few points about the plasma technology today......and I know many of us remember the first hand plasma's....and even many that you can still buy today that are clunky and fickle at best.A Powermax85, operating on 240 volt single phase power (or any single or three phase between 200 and 600 volts) will cut 1" steel dross free at over 20" per minute. The unit weighs abiut 60 lbs.....and can have up to a 75' torch. They are reliable and powerful....and in many cases (not all) are much more productive choices as compared to other cutting methods.Heres a link to an older Hypertherm 1250 cutting 5/8" .....no skill required (and that is me doing the hand cutting).....as you drag the torch on the plate and pull the trigger.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ2Niq630KY[/ame]Best regards, Jim Originally Posted by tbone550Hey Jim,I was careful to say that my opinion is just that, an opinion.  I believe I mentioned that at least twice when I was writing about plasma.  You and everyone else are certainly welcome to see plasma in a different light, and I'm glad that your experiences differ from mine.  As an employee of a major plasma manufacturer, you have the opportunity to run the newest and the greatest.  In the trenches, I have found plasma to be a finicky process that works great when it works, but can be severely frustrating when everything doesn't go just right.  As you may know, in the mobile welding field things rarely go just right, and that's what has kept me from buying into plasma for my purposes.My experience with plasma has been mostly limited to industrial-sized units in several of our local fab shops.  The shops I was in did not have the appropriate air dryers and consumable life was very short.  This, of course, wasn't the fault of the machines or operators, but rather the fault of cost-cutting management decisions.  The smoke created cutting 1" thick steel was vastly greater than the smoke from the same section of material being cut by a torch on the next table over.  The plasma cuts were straight on top but would often go off at random angles over the depth of the cut due to continued use of worn-out electrodes and tips.  It was rare for an employee to pick up a plasma cutter if a torch could be used and was available.  My more recent experience with plasma was with a junky 110V Century plasma cutter I borrowed to cut the tops of posts on the stainless fence I built.  The problems I had were the fault of the particular machine and not due to plasma in general.  It barely had the guts to deal with 3/16" thick stainless, and was very slow.  Consumable life was acceptable, but with brand new electrodes and tips the machine still had problems with establishing a pilot arc, and I ended up finishing the job with cutoff wheels on a grinder.The day may come when I become a plasma convert, but some things are going to have to change first.  I would only be interested in a machine that could cleanly cut 1" thick steel at least as fast as a cutting torch with the proper tip.  That same machine would have at least a 50' gun and ground lead so I didn't have to bring the machine to the work.  It would need to be tough enough to bounce around in a truck for years without frying circuit boards or going on the fritz.  It would need to be waterproof so it could sit outside in the rain/snow while I worked inside of a cramped space somewhere closeby.  It would need to be affordable to buy and to keep up, and consumables would need to be available anywhere.  My torch does all of these things, BTW.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTBandsaw! Absolutely the most used tool in my shop!
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwell...it's really the Acetylene that makes me nervous about O/A, but I have propane tanks all over the place....
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcolt...A Powermax85, operating on 240 volt single phase power (or any single or three phase between 200 and 600 volts) will cut 1" steel dross free at over 20" per minute. The unit weighs abiut 60 lbs.....and can have up to a 75' torch. They are reliable and powerful....and in many cases (not all) are much more productive choices as compared to other cutting methods....
Reply:IMHO all the answers for the type of cutting device are correct. All the methods mentioned above have pros and cons. There are many factors that go into choosing which one to use. Factors such as type of material, environment, start up cost, are just a few. Lastly but very important is operator skill and comfort with the method chosen. Just my 2 cents.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550There's nothing wrong with acetylene as a fuel gas, and if it carried the same price and availability as propane, I'd use acetylene instead.
Reply:Note I'm a hobby guy. The HF 4X6 bandsaw is used more than the welder. Check the search function some guys have done some great mods. for the saw.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:I've got just about every cutting tool mentioned and a few that haven't.I haven't got a plasma yet, but I have researched them carefully and I am convinced I want one..  I still haven't resolved whether to get a pm45 now or wait till I save up for a pm65 or pm85, meanwhile other priorities and opportunities keep competing for the cash. I haven't got a dry cut saw but have used them quite a bit, impressive cut quality and speed but blade life and expense of replacing blades makes me pause before buying one.I also have bosch jigsaws and milwaukee sawzalls and at times they are the best tool for the job.."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteI haven't got a dry cut saw but have used them quite a bit, impressive cut quality and speed but blade life and expense of replacing blades makes me pause before buying one..
Reply:There is a generator chart for each Hypertherm plasma on the website...go to the product , chooses specs,then scroll down on the page. It can be a little confucing though.The Powermax85 will draw as much as 58 amps on a 240 volt single phase power input....when cutting at 85 amps output with full arc stretch. Full arc stretch means cutting the thickest materials or gouging with a very long arc. If cutting 1/2" at 85 amps the arc is short...and you will be drawing a lot less power (amperage) from the generator or power line. So....the amperage draw vaies with thickness.The generator chart suggests that you can cut anything with a Powermax plasma with the output setting at 60 amps....using a 12kW generator. At 60 amps you can sever up to about an inch...and can cut 1/2" at about35 inches per minute with excellent quality.With a 15 kW generator you can turn the Powermax 85 up to full 85 amp outut and cut anything that the unit is capable of cutting. Severing 2" steel can be done...although this is where an oxy-fuel makes way more sense!A Powermax45 will cut 1/2" all day long on an 8 kW generator.The Powermax65 and 85 operate the same regardless of the input voltage. Performance is identical with 208 volt single phase input.....or 480 volt 3 phase....as long as the circuit feeding the power supply has adequate amperage capability. Input amperage at 240 volt single phase is higher than input amperage at 480 volt 3 phase.You can get work ground leads from Hypertherm at up to 150' lengths...the ground lead on the 65, 85 and 105 are quick disconnect leads......as are the torch leads.While everyone gets pretty worked up about dry air...having a field compressor that has an auto drain.....or at least someone that regularly drains the tank....is adequate for air supply in the field. A little moisture will have an affect on consumable life....but does not disrupt cutting. 80% of air plasma systems are used directly connected to an air compressor...no filters, no dryers. Many older technology systems have real issues with wet air.....the newer tech systems seem to work ok with it.Jim Colt Originally Posted by tbone550Hey Jim,I went to the Hypertherm website and looked at this unit.  I'm a little confused by input power requirements.  My TB302 welder is a 12KW power source, and I can't remember the amperage to the 240V outlet off the top of my head.  It looks like the 85's capacity would be limited by the max output power of my Trailblazer, perhaps severely.  Prices I found online for this unit, at $3500 or so for one with a 50' lead, also give me pause.  Looks like a standard engine-driven 12 hp/30 gal Ingersoll-Rand compressor would keep up with it fine, but a smaller wheelbarrow style might not.Please give me your comments on what you see used as electrical and air input sources for this unit when used in the field at full capacity.  (I'm talking mobile, engine-driven sources, not stationary.)  Also, I didn't come across the length of the ground lead - do you have this info?  Finally, talk a little about air drying in a mobile application - how is it handled best?A small plasma is hands down my tool of choice.  I talked with Jim a couple years back over on pirate4x4 about a PM30.  I bought one a week later and haven't put it down since. 1/4 2x4's are no match for this unit. I blow through them like butter. The bandsaw just sits idle as i have no time to babysit it.  I cut a lot of doors and windows in shipping containers on site.  I see guys using grinders or skill saws with metal blades and i just laugh. It takes them an hour to cut a door. It takes me 10 minutes to set up my cut jig and 5 min to cut the hole. Best of all, Hypertherm is made in the good ol US of A. And all of it is made there!!
Reply:How do you plasma guys cut rusted parts or odd shaped parts? All I ever see plasma guys cutting is plate.Like:Or something thicker than the plasma can cut?How well does your plasma cut plastic and wood?The bandsaw cuts it ALL, does it well, fast, and strait!
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTHow do you plasma guys cut rusted parts or odd shaped parts? All I ever see plasma guys cutting is plate.Like:Or something thicker than the plasma can cut?How well does your plasma cut plastic and wood?The bandsaw cuts it ALL, does it well, fast, and strait!
Reply:Tbone,"My experience with plasma has been mostly limited to industrial-sized units in several of our local fab shops. The shops I was in did not have the appropriate air dryers and consumable life was very short. This, of course, wasn't the fault of the machines or operators, but rather the fault of cost-cutting management decisions. The smoke created cutting 1" thick steel was vastly greater than the smoke from the same section of material being cut by a torch on the next table over. The plasma cuts were straight on top but would often go off at random angles over the depth of the cut due to continued use of worn-out electrodes and tips. It was rare for an employee to pick up a plasma cutter if a torch could be used and was available."A thought noodle here operator makes a big difference. My work runs two plasma tables and the size it much different between the machines. The big one is a dual head 800 ( I believe J colt knows his product line better than I and this is an older setup). The big table was bought used and it had a lot of pains getting working and building the water table ( approx  20x40 feet). After months of dinking around with it ( multiple repairs, and fixes, old used machine BTW not a hypertherm problem, just problems with old and used ) they finally got it up and working about 2 months ago. The lead man in the cutting department had been working with it all along and has lots of years experience, but he couldn't be tied up to the table full time. He gets two days on consumables ( which translates to 100 plus parts a day on an average. To free him up they got him a table operator, the new operator averaged 2 hours on consumables, verse 16. Now this isn't your Dads plasma table, it runs either oxygen or nitrogen, and never runs just compressed air. It is also very tricky cutting anything under 5/16 inch plate, but the lead has cut down to 16 guage. Point is the operator makes a big difference, in three areas, consumables, time, and quality of cut.Jim, just a note not a critism, more than once when they were getting it dialed in and having issues I recommended they contact you. Second is we ( in engineering ) sent out some sample cuts recently to evaluate some up and coming precision parts. Had the parts cut both plasma tables, the smaller table also does flame cutting. out of 4 sample parts, 2 on the big table, 1 on the smaller table, and a flame cut part. The flame cut part was a much better part, not near the dross or kerf. Don't take this a a dink, as we are already in discussion on a water jet for these types of parts, but a water jet will be a speciality tool, there is no way it could ever get the numbers or quanity ( I have seen them pump out  200 parts a day on the big table when they nest and cut a lot of parts out of a big sheet) nor would the cost even get close. And although the flame cuts are what we currently have to do it is too slow and costly.I have a plasma ( sorry jim its a thermadyne ) and for what it was designed to do it rates execellent, as is the best tool for the job, I don't try to make it do things that I have better processes to achieve though such as miter tube stock ( I know I could do it but I have a better tool ) but a plasma is a nice and often used addition to my tooling.Tbone, I know why you like you torch setup, frankly anything you can do with a plasma you can do with a Victor or Smith machine torch.If I had a critism of plasma it is their power requirements. I have many times schemed on getting my plasma on my truck, I have a Lincoln sa-250 and I just don't have juice to run my plasma, and I would need to go into a min Vantage 300 or prefered Vantage 400 to have enough power to make it worth my while, or a seprate generator ( got a gen set now but it isn't big enough either ) Where I have my gas bottle setup already on my rig, and can pre heat with it. I am sure given time and techology this hurtle will get addressed and plasma has come a long way in the last 10 years but to replace your torch setup right now has some issues, not insurmountable but costly to rectify right now.Last edited by fredschrom; 12-23-2012 at 01:13 PM.
Reply:Given that it's the holidays, I haven't had a chance to shoot down to the Local Welding Shop to price out a torch set, but looking online, it sure seems like cost is going to be an issue for me--not so much for the torch set, but for the cylinder(s).When you rent cylinders, do you pay monthly, or is it a fixed markup per cylinder? Because I'm not going to go through enough gas to make a monthly charge worth it. I'll pay ten times as much in rental as I would in gas.For around $250, the Harbor Freight horizontal/vertical bandsaw sure seems tempting. It's got decent reviews on the Internet, including one from the World-Famous Lanse (ChuckE2009 on Youtube). Between the vertical and the horizontal position, it seems like it could do a lot of what I actually do, most of the time. It can't cut sheet stock, and it can't gouge, but I'm starting to think maybe I would be better off relying on other tools the few times I need to do those things, and relying on a band saw the rest of the time. For $250, it's hard to go wrong.Hmm... what I really ought to do is find some way to convince myself that I'm justified in getting a torch AND a bandsaw! Hmm....
Reply:" Hmm... what I really ought to do is find some way to convince myself that I'm justified in getting a torch AND a bandsaw! Hmm....  "As somebody who has both beware of low end bandsaws, they do some stuff OK but are limited.
Reply:Oxy fuel is the place to start. I have a pm65 plasma that I love. I would like a band saw to replace the abrasive saw. I have used a porta band but don't desire to own one.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwell...When you rent cylinders, do you pay monthly, or is it a fixed markup per cylinder? ....Hmm... what I really ought to do is find some way to convince myself that I'm justified in getting a torch AND a bandsaw! Hmm....
Reply:Fred, you are absolutely right that the operator makes the difference.  On any type of equipment.  I agree 100%.
Reply:Originally Posted by aDreamSoReallets see the finished merge collector you're cutting in the second pic.
Reply:WOW, I didn't read your post good enough. I didn't see the part where you said second picture. Took me awhile to load the last pics so I'm gonna leave them. lolPics of the SECOND picture merge collector.
Reply:To answer your question, pilot arc plasma cutter will cust painted or rusted metal easily.  I do it all the time.   I did see a video of someone cutting tempered glass with a plasma... never tried it myself...  if u r working only with ferrous steel then I consider a plasma a luxury not a necessity as there are many ways to cut thinner sections of steel.   My favorite by far is my EVO 14" cold cut chop saw.   U will be surprised what u can cut with a good carbide tipped blade an a circular saw...Last edited by soutthpaw; 12-24-2012 at 04:55 AM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I'm on this same path of research and discovery. This thread has a lot of good info, as with other topics, that gets repeated.Maybe a sticky is in order.As of right now specifically as a cutting tool, a torch setup is the next step for me.I am leaning toward the propane option now, but that has complicated things in sorting out the differences in hoses, fittings, torch, tips, reg, etc. for propane vs. acetylene.Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 and WP17. 75A AC is for pipe thawing!HH 140 - new addtion 9/2012.I didn't agree, but hoped for Hope and Change.I got change for myself and my family: for the worse.This is the reality of: Barackalypse Now. Again.
Reply:Originally Posted by jtcnjI'm on this same path of research and discovery.... ...I am leaning toward the propane option now, but that has complicated things in sorting out the differences in hoses, fittings, torch, tips, reg, etc. for propane vs. acetylene.
Reply:VPT, very nice work. Merge collectors aren't something anyone can just build. I have a cutting jig for my band saw that can bang them out like butter. That's an awesome header you have built. Cheers!
Reply:I'm a hobby sort of person - welding is an adjunct not an end in itself.  For cutting I have lots of options, but I have found the OA setup sits idle.  It's in my attached garage, so I have the regulators removed and the caps on.  Just too much going on in that garage that is not welding related to have hoses and regs attached 24/7.  Don't get me wrong, I love a cutting torch and I even really enjoy welding thin material with OA and if I had a dedicated and detached shop, then it would be hands down favorite.For cutting up bar, tube and similar stock at straight angles, my ridiculously cheap (with a 20% off coupon) HF 4x6 bandsaw is really nice.  I dribble a little Do-drill on it, too, and have a bimetal blade.Another option for cutting rebar or similar, is a grinder.  Quick and efficient.  A two pack of Bosch grinders for $69 give me a flap wheel and cut off wheel with no changes.  I actually have a third for a wire brush.For larger sheet type steel up to about 1/8 or so, I have a bosch jig saw.  Slow but will cut some curves and I'm not cutting a lot if I pull it out.  I have to have a jig saw anyway, so a good one like a Bosch is worth having for versatility.  Same is true of a sawzall - a bimetal blade and there's little that *I* need to cut that won't yield to it.Thanks to a member here, I got a very good deal on a never used Hypertherm PM30 plasma.  Downside: I need to fire up a large-ish compressor, so I have two power cords, a compressor hose, a ground clamp and the torch running around.  Upside, it really isn't very hard to use, and it's quick.  No stand off like on OA, just drag and the dross is a grinder or (often) a quick old school hand file away from being cleaned up.I don't have an abrasive cut off saw, but do have an abrasive blade on a cordless skill saw.  Doesn't see a lot of duty unless I need a longer straight cut on something too thick for the jigsaw.  Too many sparks and mess for the situation I have.  I tried a metal cutting blade (not abrasive) Lennox on a skil saw but it was loud and still pretty messy for my multi-use garage.  Still, they are there and didn't cost a ton.I started with just a couple items and added a bit here and there as the need came up.  As you can tell, my tools aren't used every day.  They don't make money, and the space is small and the projects are small.  I've got pets and people, an attached garage, and other things that need to get done in there.  It's got to get set up, picked up and swept up for each project.  If you're like that, then if you are creative and resourceful, you can MacGuyver a lot of cutting with just abrasive blades on a circular saw and a grinder, and bimetal blades on a sawzall and jigsaw.  Oh, and a speed square and patience.  If you need to cut "thicker" stuff, then maybe a little plasma is in your future.  Or an OA if you need the heating and other things it can do.There you have it from a dedicated nobody.
Reply:I will only add one thing. Where I used to work we made a bushing so we could use the worn out chop saw blades on a standard table saw. We could cut metal just like wood only a lot slower. Pushing the feed to fast and the cut goes off on an angle. Chop saws do the same thing if pushed to fast on thicker metals.Plasma cutter and a straight edge or templet, you can cut almost anything