miller or hobart?

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Hello all. Im about to be done with welding school and plan on starting a small shop soon. I have been. Looking at welders and I can make up my mind.... im not wanting to spend $10k but I would like a couple good welders to get me started.Im thinking about getting a miller thunderbolt or hobart stickmate and a hobart 190 or miller 210 mig. Is there really a difference in the quality?? Because at this point. Every dollar countsalso I need a plasma cutter recommendation. Whats the best bang for your buck at cutting 3/8s and thinner?
Reply:The machines your considering are more hobby suited than fab shop suited.I'd consider a miller dial arc over a thunderbolt for the increased output and duty cycle. Plasma cutters are not cheap. I wouldn't buy anything with less than 40 amps of cut power. Hypertherm, Thermal Dynamics and Esab  are tops in the plasma cutting field.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:One other option would be a multi process machine like the Miller XMT304 CC/CV. Stick, DC tig and mig/FC depending on what accessories you plug into the power source. Bare power sources can be had for $1200 and up. Wire feeders, $500+ plus the cylinder, tig gear maybe $200 plus cylinder, stick leads depends on length needed....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well guys I greatly appreciate your opinions! I will definitely keep them in mind.I would LOVE to have a miller dialarc. I have used them a lot in school along with the syncrowave. I actually passed all my bend tests for smaw using a syncrowave. As far as the lincoln goes I would want an older one like the one thats listed for sale here.  But you dont see those everyday. Wonder what it qould cost to ship a lincoln across the country.....
Reply:Maybe I missed it, but where do you live?
Reply:In north Richland hills tx, ati training center is closing shop.Lots of WeldersXmt304sSyncrowave 200sDialarcsShopmatesA good prices, but not good enough for resale
Reply:Btw tapatalk on iPad doesn't register the return key
Reply:http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/tls/3495736693.htmlHeres a link
Reply:Yeah I live in north texas. Bout 50 miles north of dallas.
Reply:Thanx for the link man
Reply:James,Here ya go brother, as far as cutters go, Hypertherm is the best from what I have gathered and the people I have spoken to. I plan on buying one very soon myself!  I will share what Ive come up with thus far...Hypertherm PM30 is only: $1,069 at Weldersource.com (as of 12/24/2012), and the Hypertherm PM45 is only:  $1569.I called Hypertherm about Weldersource (online storefront name), AKA: “Welders Supply Company of Louisville, Inc,” and it is an authorized seller with a good reputation.  Also, since you’re a student, be aware that Hypertherm has a rebate offer for students (or recent graduates with in the past year), and this rebate is in addition to the already discounted price at Weldersource.com.  You also have to purchase a Hypertherm from an authorized Hypertherm channel partner, which this company is.PM30, $100 back (Visa gift card)PM45, $200 back   "               "PM65, $300 back   "               "PM85, $400 back   "               "PM105, $500 back. "              "Welding student rebate: http://store.weldersource.com/Images...tGraduates.pdfBest place to buy (free shipping, no tax):https://store.weldersource.com/Shopp...and-torch.aspxGarLincoln Electric, Power MIG 256Hypertherm Powermax 45 Miller Dynasty 280DXSmith O/A torchGenesis of a welding table
Reply:Thanx gar!!! Good stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I would check that out for sure. You may get a good deal on something.Look into an XMT! Seen some Shopmate machines too. Great multi process DC sTick, TIG & MIG. That or a Syncrowave.
Reply:The syncrowave is a transformer based power supply, ac/dc tig and stick machine with High frequency start. Constant current.The XMT series welders are inverter power supplies, dc only, constant current and constant voltage. Stick, lift start dc tig, scratch start dc tig and mig/flux core with an external wire feeder.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:At the ati training center, they have a few Hypertherm plasma cutters tooHere's some more photos I took...
Reply:The oldest I saw was 2002' the newest was 2011
Reply:So are inverter machines any good?  I mean, will they hold up like an old school unit with a transformer?
Reply:What kind of shop ??  In a garage with house attached ? Shop in a industrial park ???The reason is available power, single phase three phase ?  What type of work ?    Hypertherm Powermax 45 Plasma Cutter , Miller CST 280 stick inverter, Miller 252 mig,Syncro 200 0r 250. This will get you started with machines.
Reply:Shoot im just gonna rent a building. Prolly on the outskirts of town.Im thinking repair and fabrication. Easy stuff like farm equipment but I also need to be alble to tig in a few rollcages....ok really thats probably the direction it will end up goin...hot rods. But its just because all my friends are racers and this town is full of dirt trackers and hot rodders.Im not expe ting to get 3 phase. And I will probably have to pipe in a new electrical system because some country boy jake leg will have romex hangin on the walls or something.  So ya lets just assume 200 amp single phase service.
Reply:Ok, you might as well add a Trailblazer to the list. You might be able to find a 302 instead of the new 325.
Reply:Trail blazor?????
Reply:Oh no need. I am getting a friend of mines pipeliner. He's retired now. Selling it to me for 1200.
Reply:XMT 304's are pretty much an industry standard in many fab shops and tech schools. Very well built and reliable.Not to get off track, but how much experience do you have in business? What kills most new businesses isn't that the guy can't do the work, it's simply that he can't run a business. I've seen a lot of guys who can weld just about anything, have their business fail simply because they aren't good with doing all the stuff on the business side. You had better have a solid plan with all your expenses figured out in advance, plus a lot of capital on hand to get you thru the 1st year if not 2 in this economy until you build up enough business to support yourself. I know a lot of guys with connections that went out on their own for various reasons that are struggling right now to make ends meet. Expect to work long hours ( 12-14 hours a day) 7 days a week with no vacations and bring in next to no money.A few things to think about...Rent, general liability insurance, vehicle insurance, medical insurance, insurance on tools ( Inland Marine), taxes, rent, phone, electric, water and sewer, fuel, vehicle maintenance, equipment maintenance, PPE, licenses and permits, tool rentals, workmans comp, social security ( you pay both halves if you are self employed), clothing expenses, office expenses( paper, computer, pens and pencils etc), tolls, Advertising, shipping and packaging costs, Storage racking for materials and supplies ( shelves, racks, bins etc), legal fees, accountants fees... I can keep going, I'm sure I'm missing quite a few off the top of my head.Then there are tools themselves ( hand tools, small power tools, machines themselves) gas, wire, rod, drill bits, grinding stones, sanding disks, solvents and cleaners, Misc hardware, Consumables ( mig tips, collets, tungstens, cups, liners, collet bodies, etc) materials, paint supplies, saw blades... and so on.It wouldn't surprise me if I don't have over $1K in basic hand tools on my truck and close to $2-3K in small power tools, those numbers don't include the other stuff at the house and shop or my machines. I probably have close to $ 1K in misc hardware in the shop alone and maybe $1K in assorted steel if you added up what all the misc shorts and all would cost me. Then there's the cost of my work truck, trailer...Then you get paid... if there's anything left.Keep in mind anything you forget, comes out of your share. It doesn't take much to eat up the "profit". Forget to shut off the gas and blow a cylinder over night, yep that comes out of YOUR pay... Figure the job will take one roll of wire and it takes two, yep you pay for that too if you gave a fixed price. Have a tool stolen, drop one and break it, or it simply dies of age... any of dozens of unsuspecting costs or things that are missed will eat up your money fast. It's usually not the big things that get forgotten, it's a 1/2 dozen small ones that suddenly have eaten up all your income. Then don't forget to figure in any who might stiff you on payments...Owning your own business can be very rewarding, but it's not easy if you want to succeed. Most guys with little to no background in the business won't do well because they miss many of the items listed above and undersell themselves to get work. Then all of a sudden they are in a hole and can't climb out, especially if they take on a big loan to cover new tools. It might pay you to get some solid time under your belt in the field 1st. Learn everything you can about estimating and costing jobs. Try to figure out how long it will take you to do the work, then see if your estimate holds up top reality. Most times it will not with new guys. Don't be at all surprised if you think you can do a job in 3 hours and it takes a day and a half to finish it. If you are working for someone else, no big deal, but if you are working for yourself, that means your hourly wage just got cut to a quarter what you expected to make per hour... If you figured you needed $20 an hour at 40 hrs, now you used up 12 hrs, but only made $60. Where does the rest of the money come from to meet your bills? Now what happens if no one else walks in the door this week with work?Last edited by DSW; 12-25-2012 at 12:10 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Wow lotta good info in there.I have a year left in trade school. The shop wont be my primary means of income. Sad part is ill be working for someone else until it takes off..more of a second job really. I dont know if I can make it pay or Not but its what I wanna do for myself. I have always twisted wire nuts for money but I got into welding to be happy. Thats what its all about ya knowBut like I said I got a year left but its not a bad idea to start gathering stuff up now.
Reply:I have never owned or used a Plasma Cutter, but have been called upon when my then employer's (I am now retired) plasma cutter stopped working. I called Hypertherm, with the model and serial number, they walked me through trouble shooting.I have promised myself that if I am ever buying a Plasma Cutter, I will buy a Hypertherm because of the excellent technical support and customer service they have given me on several occasions.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP CompressorTM Lincolns 300/400/500/650 A/C. or AC/DC weld any thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughWow lotta good info in there.I have a year left in trade school. The shop wont be my primary means of income. Sad part is ill be working for someone else until it takes off..more of a second job really. I dont know if I can make it pay or Not but its what I wanna do for myself. I have always twisted wire nuts for money but I got into welding to be happy. Thats what its all about ya knowBut like I said I got a year left but its not a bad idea to start gathering stuff up now.