E7048 Electrodes

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Hello All,I am seeking a downhill low hydrogen SMAW electrode for welding locomotive air brake piping.  Currently our procedures call for uphill welding with 7018.  Due to lack of training and knowledge of welding we have a lot of guys running 7018 downhill.  They should be hung for this but I can't watch all 400 welders at the same time. The long term fix for this is proper education and training, I know.  I need a short term fix though.  I have heard around the campfire that there is an E7048 which is right up my alley.   The problem is that there is not much information out there about this rod and I know nothing about it.  Like I said I am in the Locomotive industry so my background is mostly structural. Can any of you Pipeliners or Welding Nuts shed some light on the subject for me?Things I would like to know are:- Where or who can I buy this rod from?- How well does it run generally?- Does anyone have experience with this rod?- Does anyone know of any alternatives manufactured to AWS specs?- Is it commercially available in the United States?Any and all information from anyone who can speak intelligently on the subject is greatly appreciated.Thanks,Jesse
Reply:Originally Posted by jef1Currently our procedures call for uphill welding with 7018.  Due to lack of training and knowledge of welding we have a lot of guys running 7018 downhill.  They should be hung for this but I can't watch all 400 welders at the same time. The long term fix for this is proper education and training, I know.  I need a short term fix though.
Reply:7048 should be available.  The bigger problem seems to be1) Having welders who won't follow procedure2) You allowing this3) Creating a procedure for this weld using 7048, which will pass all the criteria.  Is the AWS even applicable?  I would think not, that the SAE, ASME or something similar would be the controlling agency.  Then it's not as simple as copying a procedure from a book.  The company must qualify and document the procedure themselves.4) Repeat Numbers one and two5) Think to yourself "I am so screwed"
Reply:Count-down to when the OP chides us for going off topic and not "intelligently (speaking) on the subject is greatly appreciated."
Reply:Washington Alloyshttp://www.washingtonalloy.com/docum...asp?offset=110
Reply:-I am not the supervisor so think before you speak. -The AWS absolutely does govern pipe welding look in D1.1 or D15.1 -I am new to this company. So thanks for your input. -The procedure would be qualified with the new rod and position on all bases. I do not use prequalified garbage.-The company pays better than anyone in the area.-  Thank you Ht2 you clearly care about the health of our field and not just looking cool on some forum.
Reply:Originally Posted by jef1-I am not the supervisor so think before you speak. -The AWS absolutely does govern pipe welding look in D1.1 or D15.1 -I am new to this company. So thanks for your input. -The procedure would be qualified with the new rod and position on all bases. I do not use prequalified garbage.-The company pays better than anyone in the area.-  Thank you Ht2 you clearly care about the health of our field and not just looking cool on some forum.
Reply:Why aren't you guys running the 7018 uphill like the weld procedure calls for? I run 7018 downhill often. It can be done if you have the experience and skills to do it. Does your weld procedure specify low hy electrode? If not,  why not use 7010?JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:There are hobbiests that can run 7018 uphill.  I can't imagine a business (sounds like a rather large one at that) would have welders that can't handle that procedure.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Idle curiosity here. I will never weld a pipe where safety is such a high stakes game, why can't it be run uphill? Might MIG be a good alternative? They make some great movies with trains without brakes, but I'd guess the great minds of engineering have thought about redundant safeguards.
Reply:Check out Esab Filarc 27p and Bohler BVD series. Both are basic electrodes designed to run downhill.
Reply:I always thought that any thing to do with the railways was tightly controlled.  Something just doesn't sound right with this post...IMHO:  I would be screaming really loud if I knew of an improper fabrication procedure at my job.   Just thinking out loud...If your working under contract, and you not following standards; you may not have a job to complain about.   Last edited by Billdacat; 01-01-2015 at 10:38 AM.
Reply:Jef1,Tell us more about this locomotive air brake piping you're welding on.  Things like type, grade, diameter and wall thickness.  What type of weld joint (socket, butt)?  What positions do you normally have to weld them in?   Hell man, just get us some pictures of typical situations if you can.
Reply:Not surprising  Attached Images
Reply:So what's your excuse for not having made any friends yet?
Reply:Says the guy with one whole friend, and that's probably your mom  Attached Images
Reply:Jesse,Lincoln electric and Bohler both manufacture E7048 electrodes.  Lincoln sells them under their Pipeliner brand name.  They were developed as a replacement for XX10 class electrodes(cellulosic), used in downhill pipewelding applications.  E7048 is a low hydrogren product that solves hydrogen cracking issues that sometimes arrise from using cellulosic rods on high(er) strength steels.I've welded with them and they are very different from E7018 electrodes in terms of welding technique and performance.  I do not think they are the solution to your problems.  You can find some guidance and instructions on their usage on Lincoln's website.  If your current gang of welders are having issues with E7018, they will have even greater problems using E7048.  These rods run downhill, very hot(high amperage), and can be difficult to use.  Moving too slowly will generate slag inclusions, which I'm sure you're already seeing if your welders are trying to run E7018 downhill.  They also have specially tapered tips(at least the lincoln rods do) that aid in striking the arc.  But you cannot re-strike these rods, so once you break the arc the remainder of a rod is almost always trash.  so waste is generally higher with these rods and they are very expensive to begin with.  They are available through major welding distributors in the USA, and through some online welding distributors as well.I would encourage you to address the root cause of the problem, welder training and education; and not attempt a quick fix like switching to another electrode.  I know this seems like less work, but I do not think you will succeed in solving your problem by using this solution. Originally Posted by jef1Hello All,I am seeking a downhill low hydrogen SMAW electrode for welding locomotive air brake piping.  Currently our procedures call for uphill welding with 7018.  Due to lack of training and knowledge of welding we have a lot of guys running 7018 downhill.  They should be hung for this but I can't watch all 400 welders at the same time. The long term fix for this is proper education and training, I know.  I need a short term fix though.  I have heard around the campfire that there is an E7048 which is right up my alley.   The problem is that there is not much information out there about this rod and I know nothing about it.  Like I said I am in the Locomotive industry so my background is mostly structural. Can any of you Pipeliners or Welding Nuts shed some light on the subject for me?Things I would like to know are:- Where or who can I buy this rod from?- How well does it run generally?- Does anyone have experience with this rod?- Does anyone know of any alternatives manufactured to AWS specs?- Is it commercially available in the United States?Any and all information from anyone who can speak intelligently on the subject is greatly appreciated.Thanks,Jesse
Reply:Why don't you just weed out the guys that won't follow procedure? Don't they have to stencil their welds?Also, 7018 root on pipe is a pretty unusual WPS. I know some people do it, but there are better alternatives.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doI would encourage you to address the root cause of the problem, welder training and education; and not attempt a quick fix like switching to another electrode.  I know this seems like less work, but I do not think you will succeed in solving your problem by using this solution.
Reply:Here's a few option you may consider on pipe. Open butt joint you can use this http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ncolnElectric)Downhill fill and cap passes you may consider this http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ncolnElectric)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk