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I'm trying 1/16 inch 2% lanthanated electrode sharpened to a point under 60 amps DC, 10 cfhr argon, #6 cup, 308L filler .040 diameter. I ease on the pedal and can see a small puddle, I keep easing a bit more to enlarge the puddle a bit and then it's like the power surges without any more pedal and creates a large puddle just before it creates a large hole. Almost too ugly to post. Even areas that I manage to get bead run appear too hot. Not sure what to try next.
Reply:Your gas flow seems low, turn up to 18-20cfh. Also what type of machine is this? 60amp is a bit much for material this thin.
Reply:Yep going to need a bit more cfh with the outside corner joint. Be sure to keep a short stickout.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Hello sand man red, it appears as if you have a rather "ragged" edge on the pieces that you are trying to join. For a corner-to-corner fit-up a tight, even, joint is key for starters. As others have said, 60 amps seems a bit high and if you have the ability to use foot pedal control or some other sort of remote amperage control this is one of the times where it can be very beneficial. From the pictures it appears that you are using filler, when you are tacking you may find that a quick burst of more amperage in conjunction with a dab of filler will help to get the parts to fuse without blowing a large hole through it. Once they have fused, back out of the amperage and utilize the filler and an even travel speed to progress with your weld bead. Small tacks along the length of the weld joint(about every 1" or so) prior to attempting to weld the joint will also aid with successful welding. If you have a copper bar or an aluminum bar or piece of angle or tube you can use this as a backer/heat sink to further aid with welding this type of joint. Good luck and regards, Allanaevald
Reply:What machine are you using? Is it the machines fault or yours be honest?I would set the machine to 40 amps. Outside corners don't need much heat compared to other types of welding joints. Maybe use 15 cfh. Is it only key-holing on you where there's little gaps or also tight fit up areas? I'm guessing you where chasing a keyhole that's why you got so much filler in spots.Last edited by motolife313; 02-23-2015 at 11:36 AM.
Reply:I'm using a Longevity 200 SX with foot pedal. Stick out is about 3/16 of an inch. I can't see the readout when welding but I'm guessing I'm in the 30-50 amp range. I can use a back up bar for practice but the project I'm practicing for won't always allow the use of a heat sink so I'd like to learn to do without. The fit up was not great on right end but overall not bad, it's not the only reason for blowouts.It seems like the power does fluctuate even at an even pedal position. I'm slowly building pedal pressure to establish a puddle and then trying to maintain that position as I go. I'll be going along dabbing filler and then I can hear the hiss of the arc increase in intensity and see the puddle suddenly enlarge and if I don't back off quick enough it blows through. If I survive the apparent surge by backing off without blowing a hole then I have to keep increasing and holding at that spot to re-establish a puddle for what seems like forever.I will try higher gas flow for sure but does that explain what I'm perceiving as uneven or erratic arc strength?
Reply:I am not familiar with this welder, check and make your 2t and 4t settings are right. If this welder has them.
Reply:The shielding issue, fitup and lack of backing could all be hurting you. Also slowly adding amperage puts more heat into the part, try to get a puddle formed as quickly as you can.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:All of the above comments ring true. You are probably experiencing a gas surge upon arc initiation, then a shortage when normalized. Could explain the hot arc. Your regulator may not be the most accurate, and your hose may be expanding and voluminous leaving a huge uneven gas surge, then deficit. I would recommend with these low budget units a way to check the gas flow. I use a portable flow gauge from netwelder.com. http://www.netwelding.com/MIG_Flow%20Rate-Chart.htmWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I just picked up that torch mounted gas meter. That's what I used to check the 10 cfh. For what it's worth my starting point was the CK technical specs. I see that at 10 cfh I'm under by 1 cfh but for sure will try that 15-20 cfh range as soon as I can.
Reply:Hello again sand man red, I did a quick look to see the functions of your machine, a couple of things: if you use a pulse setting this can be beneficial with welding the corner to corner joint, depending upon your preference a pulse setting of 150 to 200 will aid with progression of the puddle due to the slight "agitation" that the pulsing encourages. If you opt to go with a lower setting, say 50 to a 100, it may help to limit burn-through and key-holing a bit as you are essentially pulsing from a cooler setting to a hotter setting and allowing for more control over the heat overall. With regard to use of your foot pedal: set the amperage setting to the maximum that you foresee as needing for heat, this will provide the most range adjustment on the pedal from the minimum and maximum amperage value that you have set the machine to and helps to avoid changing heats so drastically/dramatically with movement of the pedal. Hope this makes sense, good luck and regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Sounds like your doing very thing right. Just a problem with the machine unless your regulator is inaccurate like mentioned. How long have you had this machine? Has this happend before?
Reply:I'd try pulse but I don't have it. I've had the machine for about 8 months. I've noticed the apparent surging on DC under other conditions but normally I just perceive it as a loss of power meaning I just hold my progress until the power comes back up. The erratic power seems less likely to occur when I'm standing on the pedal. At first I thought I was dipping the tungsten but I'm pretty sure that's not it as there is a huge loss of power and a visible gob of steel on the end of the tungsten when I do that.AC is there is no problem like this at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by sand_man_redI just picked up that torch mounted gas meter. That's what I used to check the 10 cfh. For what it's worth my starting point was the CK technical specs. I see that at 10 cfh I'm under by 1 cfh but for sure will try that 15-20 cfh range as soon as I can.
Reply:Thanks for all the suggestions. Dialed max power down to about 40 amp max. Probably in the 30-35 amp range while welding. Argon flow up to 16 cfh. Steel angle backer for tacking and then Solarflux type B applied to back side after tacking.I still noticed a bit of weakness or variation in the arc from time to time but with lower max amps it's a lot easier to react to.
Reply:That still looks way too hot. You can try tacking every 2 inches, the run the overlapping joint with the heat angled off to the side >^, fuse the corner quickly and smoothly, blowing excess heat away from the project. Start with 60-70A, turn it down until you get proper rainbow color.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by sand_man_redI'm using a Longevity 200 SX with foot pedal. Stick out is about 3/16 of an inch. I can't see the readout when welding but I'm guessing I'm in the 30-50 amp range. I can use a back up bar for practice but the project I'm practicing for won't always allow the use of a heat sink so I'd like to learn to do without. The fit up was not great on right end but overall not bad, it's not the only reason for blowouts.It seems like the power does fluctuate even at an even pedal position. I'm slowly building pedal pressure to establish a puddle and then trying to maintain that position as I go. I'll be going along dabbing filler and then I can hear the hiss of the arc increase in intensity and see the puddle suddenly enlarge and if I don't back off quick enough it blows through. If I survive the apparent surge by backing off without blowing a hole then I have to keep increasing and holding at that spot to re-establish a puddle for what seems like forever.I will try higher gas flow for sure but does that explain what I'm perceiving as uneven or erratic arc strength?
Reply:Try taking the pedal apart and blowing it out and cleaning the brush area Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CTry taking the pedal apart and blowing it out and cleaning the brush area
Reply:I'm starting to wonder if my perception that the power is varying is all explained by low argon flow. For sure when I was at 10 I can imagine the poor coverage would keep things from flowing and make me want to add more power to try to get it to flow. It was a lot better at 16. I think I'll try even higher as others have suggested.I can reduce amps more but I think I need to break out my other helmet in hopes of being able to see things better. I have the lens dialed down to 9 which is as low as it will go and it's still hard to see. If I'm in the 25 amps range what lens darkness works best?
Reply:25 amps is too low. Set the machine to 30-35 and push the pedal to the floor and get moving. In post 3 I said you need more cfh, outside corner joints always need higher flow and shorter stickout because there's nothing holding the argon on the joint. Shade 9 should be fineAirco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:+1 take the foot pedal out of the equation first. Originally Posted by soutthpawGood point, more than a few welder problems have been traced to pedal issues. Also could try disconnecting it and using trigger or lift start.. remove it from the equation all together.
Reply:With gas up to 20 cfh everything seems pretty good. Still can't get away from the darkened surface on the bead no matter how fast I go. It seems by the time I get the puddle to flow it's hot enough to darken. I'm out in the garage with the temperature between 20 and 30 F, does cold metal have anything to do with my results?
Reply:On a flat piece of the stainless how long does it take you to get a puddle formed? Post a picture, the bead shouldn't be dark but may have some color to it.Try grinding a piece of steel clean and try welding on it, could be the material you are using.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:You need a super tight arc when doing outside corner joints. A sharp, pointed electrode gives the best arc starts, but also spreads out the arc cone over a larger radius/area. If without pulse feature, see if you can consistently get a 0.5mm arc length. If you're 1/8" from the tungsten tip to the joint, you're light-years from having the proper arc length. Keep the torch angle as close to the vertical as you can, because the more tilt you give it, the larger the arc length becomes even if the straight-light distance from the tip to the metal stays constant.Last edited by Oscar; 02-28-2015 at 12:40 PM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SCI don't have all the particulars for your weld, but have a couple suggestions in general.1st, the thickness of the SS you are working with responds very well to autogenous (fusion) welds. Use a careful, very tight fit-up, and if the parts will allow, a heat sink backer, you can weld that up and get a very nice weld with no filler used at all. That is a very good method assuming your weld configuration will allow you to clamp the material to a heat sink. I use a aluminum square block about 3" x 4" and about 6" long, which will absorb a lot of heat very quickly from the material being welded, which also cuts down on sugaring on the back side of the weld. Here's a pic of a quick weld with a heat sink used. The picture shows the corner sitting on top of the aluminum block heat sink, although it could have been more clear with a diffeent view, you get the idea of the weld using that method. This is 1/16" material, using a 3/32 red tungsten, no filler, tight fit-up, no corner gap., 60 amps setting, hitting perhaps 50 or so. The heat sink helps modulate the effect. If I were going to use filler, I'd still use a no-gap, but leave a slight corner "V" for the filler to fill, and use the size filler that would fill the gap I left with each dip, but not extra... Of course, some welds do not lend themselves to using a heat sink, but if they do, it will give you another nice option for a good weld. Even if you can't use a heat sink, it is extremely important with SS, and in particular, with thinner SS material, to have a very tight fit-up. Otherwise, you will get holes developing at the areas where the fit is poor if you are not paying real attention.I can't offer any suggestions about your particular machine. If your machine and foot pedal are working properly, I'd set the machine to about 50-60 and then control the weld puddle by modulating the foot pedal to keep the puddle size where you want it. I prefer to have a little more range rather than be flat on the floor and waiting for the puddle to develop slower than I'd like. Dipping filler would take you a little more amperage, and I'd use a smaller filler if you have one, since every time you dip you will be cooling down the puddle, and you are not looking to make it a large puddle to start with...Good luck with figuring out any issues with the welder.Last edited by Mr. Moose; 02-28-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Reply:.020 arc length? That's a good one. I don't think anyone can do that down the whole joint. 1/16 to 1/8 and he's good. Lets see your welds with a .020 arc length?Last edited by motolife313; 02-28-2015 at 12:53 PM.
Reply:Not steadily, one's hand will naturally move around a bit of course, but if you have good eye-hand coordination and actually attempt it, it is possible. Not everyone has sh*#*( eye-hand coordination/vision. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I'm mean it can be done on and off but to recommend a .020 arc length to a guy having problems is going to give him more problems.
Reply:It is simply one suggestion. He doesn't have to try it if he doesn't want to. It is what I strive for on such a joint. Same goes for you, or anyone else. Settle down there motor mouth, you're taking things way overboard. Of course nobody is going to have laser-precision with respect to holding arc length, hell even 1mm is a good goal to have if the joint needs a pin-point arc on thin material.Last edited by Oscar; 02-28-2015 at 01:30 PM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313.020 arc length? That's a good one. I don't think anyone can do that down the whole joint. 1/16 to 1/8 and he's good. Lets see your welds with a .020 arc length?
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugBig difference from 1/16" to 1/8". On thin steel I know I have less than 0.040" arc length. I don't think I ever have a 1/8" arc length, even on heavy steel or while walking the cup.
Reply:Noticed that arc length got some attention in this thread. Whenever the material gets thin there are some major factors that will lead to successful welding of it: * absolutely clean and properly prepared materials * joint fit-ups that are tight and consistent * the ability to smoothly and consistently follow the joint with the torch and with the least variations in torch angle* proper electrode preparation taking into consideration, cleanliness and proper tapering(sharp angle, increased penetration and narrowing of the weld puddle, long taper, reduced penetration and widening of the weld pool)* Regard for arc length, "as close as humanly possible without dipping it into the puddle" will yield the best control over the puddle and prevent issues of undercut and loss of puddle control through arc wander and other issues such as that. I do believe that there are a number of people who are capable of holding VERY tight arc lengths, consider those individuals who perform micro-tig welding and take a look at some of the examples of it(they are likely .010 or closer while welding). Granted they are using microscopes to view the process in some instances, yet the hands and body are still capable of this sort of work, without caffeine and other stimulants added into the equation. The average person, with practice, can become very adept at keeping a tight and consistent arc length as well and for those who "walk the cup", others who think that this is a crutch have not employed it to the extent that the really good "cup walkers" have and are capable of doing with this method. There is a place and a time for free-handing and cup-walking. Well, there's my $.02 for the moment. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by aevaldNoticed that arc length got some attention in this thread. Whenever the material gets thin there are some major factors that will lead to successful welding of it: * absolutely clean and properly prepared materials * joint fit-ups that are tight and consistent * the ability to smoothly and consistently follow the joint with the torch and with the least variations in torch angle* proper electrode preparation taking into consideration, cleanliness and proper tapering(sharp angle, increased penetration and narrowing of the weld puddle, long taper, reduced penetration and widening of the weld pool)* Regard for arc length, "as close as humanly possible without dipping it into the puddle" will yield the best control over the puddle and prevent issues of undercut and loss of puddle control through arc wander and other issues such as that. I do believe that there are a number of people who are capable of holding VERY tight arc lengths, consider those individuals who perform micro-tig welding and take a look at some of the examples of it(they are likely .010 or closer while welding). Granted they are using microscopes to view the process in some instances, yet the hands and body are still capable of this sort of work, without caffeine and other stimulants added into the equation. The average person, with practice, can become very adept at keeping a tight and consistent arc length as well and for those who "walk the cup", others who think that this is a crutch have not employed it to the extent that the really good "cup walkers" have and are capable of doing with this method. There is a place and a time for free-handing and cup-walking. Well, there's my $.02 for the moment. Best regards, Allan
Reply:Thanks for all the help and comments.The power surging thing is not gone. I thought the power surging thing was maybe just me but I think there is something wrong with the machine. What it seems is if a hold a tight arc I get no power. If I stretch out the arc to like 3/8 of an inch with the pedal down I can hear the power increase and then I can move back in to an appropriate arc length and do okay until I have to re-start.Here's all the things I tried and none of them seem to matter; Foot pedal, disconnected and went with a torch with a switch. Torch, switched out the torch. Cable, switched back to my old cable that worked before. Tungstens, tried new ones fresh out the box and ground for the first time, both 1/16 and 3/32. Both 2% lanthanated. Tightened all gas connections.It's driving me crazy. Not sure what else to try?
Reply:Where are you located? Maybe someone near you could help find the problem.Could you try stick welding with the machine to see if it is operating properly?Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Do you have the pulse turned on without realizing it?
Reply:I can try stick welding and see.I do not have pulse.I just tried it on a flat piece of 18 gauge mild steel and a fillet weld on 18 gauge mild steel. On the flat it seems ok. On the fillet it seems like the machine is messed up. Here are the specifics on the fillet. 1/16 2% lanthanated, 20 cfh argon, #6 cup, 3/8 stick out, 180(!) amps DC with pedal floored with about 1/16-1/8 inch arc length and I can't get a puddle. As soon as I pull back to a longer arc length the power ramps up. At a 180 amps I have to just quit quickly or of course I'm in a hole. Is this something to do with the lift arc feature being messed up?
Reply:On 16 guage 304 ss i run 65 amps peak 33% width 30 amps low 1-120 pulse 4 post flo Attached ImagesLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Argon 12-15 cfhLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:.020 arc length?^^ assassin
Reply:The hell if i know ..... Close enough for me not to dip im good lolLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Lol That's about what I do. Somtimes you get it so close you can here the tungsten sizzle. Or maybe I'm grazing the puddle
Reply:Yup sounds about rightLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Yep, I think lift arc feature is fubar. I switched over to HF start. Never knew you could use it on DC? Lights and holds arc like a dream.Back to the stainless soon.
Reply:Originally Posted by sand_man_redYep, I think lift arc feature is fubar. I switched over to HF start. Never knew you could use it on DC? Lights and holds arc like a dream.Back to the stainless soon.
Reply:I'll get back to some light gage stainless soon but until then I have another question. It seems my lift arc feature is part of the problem. The power is very low if I hold a close arc as suggested. It only increases in power with an arc length that is far too long. The HF start work great. If that works fine for AC or DC do I even need the lift arc start?
Reply:Hello sand man red, the simple answer to your question is: no, you don't have to use the lift arc start option on your machine. However, if it has it it should work and depending on the age of the machine and whether you are the original owner it could possibly still be under warranty and in that case I would look to have it repaired. Lift-arc is often used when you are welding on anything that the HF could do damage to(some electronics are sensitive to HF). Thus the lift-arc feature might be employed. As to welding with the HF feature, I would use it for anything other than those instances where, as mentioned above, it could possibly damage a piece of equipment's electronics.Lift-arc may be used in other cases where use of a remote(foot pedal, slide or rotary remote) could be cumbersome(you're hanging upside down or stuffed in a hole somewhere trying to reach into a hard-to-access area to make a weld. That's when the lift-arc feature can come in real handy. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:What Allen said .....Lincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Also tell us about what equipment you are usingLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:04:55