Do Inverter based welders have an average lifespan of 5years or so?

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Read in a number of posts, that these inverter based machines have a rather short life average of 5 years before its ready to be tossed, cheaper to buy a new one , which is what the posts said. Is there any truth to this. Post mentioned that did not matter if it were used alot or not at all. Thanks for any info,Raf
Reply:Infancy failure is the most common issue with inverters.   once they have burned in, they seem to do pretty well.   storage in a damp, humid or dusty environment seems to be a bad idea.   Transformer machines definitely last longer than any inverter on average and are easier and cheaper to fix when they do fail.  all brands also exhibit failure... not just Chinese stuff and there is varying quality of the stuff coming out of China too so don't lump them all together.   if you have the power available to run an old name brand transformer and are okay with the space needed and the weight of the machine (non portable) then I would say go that way.   for stuff with a warranty,  look at how well the company stands behind said warranty and how much hassle it is to get it serviced if needed.   I don't think you can really put a number years on how long they last.   there are many Powcon Inverter machines that are still working everyday after 30 years of useTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:No that's BS and has been covered in several threads and posts on this site, as well as others.Of course, a great deal of this depends on the manufacturer and the quality of the components used. If were talking about high quality designs and reputable manufacturers/importers, that whole "lifespan" nonsense is absolute BS.I'm NOT referring to the average service life expectancy of a machine.. That's completely different and more of less a way of the company avoiding liability, etc.Some import equipment is very well engineered and built to high quality standards, so as DJ said, you can't lump them all together. I repair older Miller inverters, and have dozens of them out in heavy industry with all their original parts, many of them 20+ years old and still going strong. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what you read about magic capacitor lifespans and using predictive maintenance to try and prevent it. Nothing is guaranteed in the world of inverters. There are no absolutes. Sometimes, they run forever. Sometimes, they straight up fail. Red, yellow or blue. American manufactured or overseas. Again, I'm referring to high quality designs and reputable manufacturers/importers.If you're referring to some of the "other" Chinese import garbage out there... No comment.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:I have a Kemppi built in the late 80's still running happy. It looks as though all the new machines under 250amps are going inverter.Matt
Reply:The shop I was with has the MILLER 304's. We had them forever and are the FIRST GENERATION machines. Used daily ; turn on at 6AM and off at 2PM. Used mostly for stick and are still going with no issues at all. The CST 280's are about 7 years old and still kickin too.
Reply:i hope this is not true! i just ordered an inverter!
Reply:Shovelon has 2 Miller Dynasty 350 machines that were used daily sitting, collecting dust in the corner of his shop lifespan was 6 and 7 years.  Repair cost estimate for the two combined $4900.     Just a real life example that every brand can fail.   And there are thousands of chicom failure threads out there.   But if you get  a 3 or 5 year warranty,  balance that against initial purchase cost and replacement cost.   If you are new to welding, and get hooked, you will be wanting a better machine in 5 years anyway.   Sell it before warranty expires and upgrade with 3-5 more years of warranty.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by IslandWeldingKidi hope this is not true! i just ordered an inverter!
Reply:Infancy failure is the most common issue with inverters. once they have burned in, they seem to do pretty well.
Reply:Originally Posted by RussZHCSo the idea then becomes to buy new, use the crap out of it early (during the warranty period) and if it does not fail it is less likely to?Is the side implication not to buy used?Logic there being the machine could have seen very little use, low hours, but be past the warranty period, if the warranty is even transferable to begin with, and then if its failure was going to happen say 800 hours or 2 years in, it still will but you, the one purchasing used, are using it at 800 hours but past the warranty as its been sitting.  My mind may be off here but another reason to not spend time looking for those slightly used Dynastys that have just been sitting...from my view it could give those buying used some leverage since the risk would seem to be "greater" in the sense it still exists.
Reply:Even stuff that's been heavily used could keep working indefinitely after being taken out of a production environment. I've also seen situations where light use machines fail in short periods of time. If you have the ability and time to really exercise the machine within the warranty, do it.Still, there's absolutely ZERO guarantees. The machine could work for another ten plus years without issue, it could fail the day after you buy it. Somebody could replace all the caps, modules, etc, turn it on and it could die on the spot.You just never know. Trying to cover every angle is impossible and usually a waste of time. Buy the nicest machine you can afford and just use it. Worrying about it failing is pointless.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:yes i guess you are right about the warranty and all~ lincoln electric should be good for that!
Reply:Thank You , for all of your advice and information. I do appreciate the time you spent to share some of your wisdom. I will be buying miller, first a stick machine, then perhaps a tig machine. I have to save a while for a dynasty, but might just stay with the transformer based machines,Raf
Reply:If I judge by the machines I see most contractors use in refineries etc the average lifespan of an inverter is indefinite
Reply:Some don't have a lifespan of 5 minutes....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Just sent a Dynasty in that was 9 days past warranty. Fortunately Miller was gracious and decided to repair it under warranty. Luck of the draw I suppose. I'll let you know in a year and 9 days how the repair held.
Reply:My first inverter machine was a Thermal Arc 250 gtsw that I used for 10 years daily without 1 problem. Sold it to "friend of a friend"  when I moved up to a Miller Dynasty 350. A week or so later my friend said the machine his friend bought died and was unrepairable, fried. He wanted his money back!?!? Um, no, I used it for 10 years without a hiccup, you tried it at my shop all afternoon. Inverters are as good as transformers, but like all electronic things, don't let the magic smoke out.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:Don't worry if it doesn't fry in the first week you going to be ok, eventually caps need replacing but that is well into service life new machine use igbt's cuts the number of components in half. Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Reply:lincoln has a 3 year warranty unless you buy it at walmart or canadian tire... but what exactly does that mean, like they will fix it for free or will send new one?VictorPraxairAir LiquideMillerLincoln Electric
Reply:Originally Posted by IslandWeldingKidlincoln has a 3 year warranty unless you buy it at walmart or canadian tire... but what exactly does that mean, like they will fix it for free or will send new one?
Reply:For the life of me I still can't under stand why people call the new style electronic welders and plasma cutters as inverters.I have an inverter I bought back in 1972 it takes 120 volt A/C and inverts it into 12 volt D/C.Trying to use electronics to do the job of large transformers are not as easy as people think and as we all know electronics no matter how good they are will fail sooner or later.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:I hope not.......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:My 2 dead Dynastys lasted 5 and 6 years I believe. Repair on both are $2100 and $2700. Seeing that I still have 4 good Dynastys and a good ThemalArc400 inverter, I may repair the one that costs less. I was going to pull the trigger on the new Linclone Aspect375 tig. Quoted base price for machine only is $4700. It comes with a standard 3 year warranty, and for another $500 you can purchase another 2 years on the warranty. Decisions, decisions.Looking back on those Dynasty purchases, I would like to get 3 years productivity of 20 hours a week to justify the purchase. That is 3000 hours. To illustrate the point, my ROI would be $240,000 in billable labor to justify a $6000 purchase. Any years over 3 is just gravy. So I got realistically $400,000 and $480,000 billable labor out of them. I won't even get into my power bills and what they would do to me if I was still tranny.Last edited by shovelon; 04-06-2015 at 06:43 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416For the life of me I still can't under stand why people call the new style electronic welders and plasma cutters as inverters.I have an inverter I bought back in 1972 it takes 120 volt A/C and inverts it into 12 volt D/C.Trying to use electronics to do the job of large transformers are not as easy as people think and as we all know electronics no matter how good they are will fail sooner or later.
Reply:I've had my Dynasty 200DX for 8 years, no problems. Talking to a friend/engineer at Miller, he said as the inverter based machines have soared in popularity and the tech has advanced their internal electronics have become more and more robust. I would also expect that repair costs will go down in the future as a basic effect of supply and guys begin to try to keep their machines running with more available parts.  I'm wondering if the repair quotes are for parts of from a third party fix it shop?  I've heard the parts are becoming more accessible and repairs a bit more do-it-yourself friendly with more info available, but have no experience yet.browndogwelding.com@welderassassinMy Blog on The Fabricatorfacebook.com/BrownDogWeldingOriginally Posted by mechanic416For the life of me I still can't under stand why people call the new style electronic welders and plasma cutters as inverters.
Reply:Well, I better go change the capacitors in my 20 year old inverter....Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Old POWCON welders seem to keep chugging."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:The first Hypertherm "small" plasmas from the 1980s were chopper controlled transformer machines (the chopper was a constant current control module to improve typical plasma consumable life), they were pretty reliable in their day, called the Max40 and Max100. Ultimately we started building inverters, starting with the 40 amp Max41, then the Max42 then Max43. Each was a redesign based on very closely tracked field field failure modes of the earlier models. Today the equivalent 40 amp class unit is the Powermax45, a direct descendant of the 41, 42 and 43 systems.The Powermax45 (we will have over 100,000 of this model in the field by this summer) has by far a better field reliability record as compared to our early transformer units.....and even better vs our early inverters. The inverter switching devices (now IGBT's) as well as the control circuitry, the cooling systems, etc. are all now far more reliable than transformer based systems.Admittedly, the early Max41 and Max42 inverters left a lot to be desired and cost us a lot of money! Today inverter technology is the way to go.Now....remember I am talking about high end Hypertherm inverter plasma systems, not the multi-labeled $400 imports. Different story there!Jim Colt
Reply:The question is about like asking about the average human life span.The components, design and assembly are important.The environment that they will be used in also plays a large part.All that you can say is that a well designed,well constructed unit with good components will probably last the longest wherever you put it.A feeble cheap unit might last a long time "if" everything goes right.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bluewelders... A feeble cheap unit might last a long time "if" everything goes right.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumOld POWCON welders seem to keep chugging.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Well, I better go change the capacitors in my 20 year old inverter....
Reply:Yeah, it's a mixed bag. They can last twenty years, they can last twenty minutes.I just laugh when ppl start talking all that predictive maintenance crap thinking at ten years old, some magic dust inside of them is gonna go POOF!There's never any guarantees with inverters.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:[QUOTE=7A749;5707511... predictive maintenance crap...[/QUOTE]OOH! Reminds me that I need to put some band aids on the leads of my 62 year old Lincwelder AC180C.  Maybe a squirt of oil on the amps adjustment crank. Fortunately it was built before they got the funny notion that welders needed fans."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:remember that if they wanted something to last forever they would! There is a lightbulb in a new york firehouse that has lasted over 100 years!VictorPraxairAir LiquideMillerLincoln Electric
Reply:Originally Posted by IslandWeldingKid...There is a lightbulb in a new york firehouse that has lasted over 100 years!
Reply:Originally Posted by IslandWeldingKidremember that if they wanted something to last forever they would! There is a lightbulb in a new york firehouse that has lasted over 100 years!
Reply:Originally Posted by IslandWeldingKidremember that if they wanted something to last forever they would! There is a lightbulb in a new york firehouse that has lasted over 100 years!
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikWithout any evidence to back what I type I am inclined to believe that 5 year life span.
Reply:I think part of that 5 year myth comes from the fact some companies sell off large ticket items as soon as they are done depreciating. They get to write off the full cost of the item over those 5 years, then sell them while they still have a reasonable value and start taking the depreciation again on a new machine and don't ever have to worry about repairs to older units..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It's easy for inverter welders to get a reputation for not lasting when there are guys like me who don't trust any new technology.Add in the fact that inverters won't last as long as the old style machines, and are super expensive to repair - many guys just don't trust them.  Maybe when the "at home" repair guys get widespread, and repair cost comes down, it won't matter as much.I still like them fine - they are pretty cool and they work well - but it doesn't mean I trust them. My kids won't have the same built in prejudices, so this phase will run its course in time.The new, young welders will think it's just as normal to buy a new inverter machine every two years as it is to keep buying new laptop computers.Long live the old transformer based machines Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveIt's easy for inverter welders to get a reputation for not lasting when there are guys like me who don't trust any new technology.Add in the fact that inverters won't last as long as the old style machines, and are super expensive to repair - many guys just don't trust them.  Maybe when the "at home" repair guys get widespread, and repair cost comes down, it won't matter as much.I still like them fine - they are pretty cool and they work well - but it doesn't mean I trust them. My kids won't have the same built in prejudices, so this phase will run its course in time.The new, young welders will think it's just as normal to buy a new inverter machine every two years as it is to keep buying new laptop computers.Long live the old transformer based machines
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThat's ok Dave. I have come to trust nothing. Inverters are like crack cocaine. Once you go there, you are obsessed.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI still like them fine - they are pretty cool and they work well - but it doesn't mean I trust them.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XI trust my little 15 year old Sanrex PeeWee 85s more then my newer inverters overall.. Main reason is it cost me $150..  When they are 4-5G + they are way harder for you to them to trust them when they get out of Warranty.. All mine stay in Warranty (For now) and I Just trade them off before 3-4 years is up.. I buy them right, so I never really take a beating.. Even the new larger transformer machines have board costs that will match any inverter parts cost.. Then there are the Hybrid machines that seem to have a bit less complexity. I tend to like them for certain shop machines.. Powermig 350-Shopmate 300/Dimension 450 NT/Esab 260-300 type of units..
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'm quite sure of that!  If I had a Dynasty 700, my poor Airco would feel like a red-headed step child since I wouldn't pay it much attention anymore........until the Dynasty breaks that is  ...or I can't figure out how to turn it on, or set amps....or clear the changes I've made....LOL
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI am sure your Airco will outlast my 700. Nature of the beast. Speaking of going Bye-Bye, I like my inverter welders to fry under warranty, so I can get a good 2 years of service after a warranty failure. and the closer to the 3 year window the better. As far as the 700, I opted for that machine for giggles and the notion that it should last a long time, but I fear all of the control boards are the same as the 350s, and will degrade just as fast. We will see.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveSounds like an excellent plan
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYup. Once a control board fails it takes out everything else out in it's path. Catastrophic failure. Maybe that is why the mail-order-mayhem inverters are just swapped out. Their dirty little scheme is to "Upgrade" and squeak more cash out of ya. But that is another story altogether.