Tap and die set

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I'm at the point in my home fabricating where I could use a tap and die set. I was looking through MSC and I found one that seemed to fit my needs and budget. I'm not sure if it's a good brand, good quality, or if I'm missing something when trying to buy a tap and die set. Let me know what you think. https://www.mscdirect.com/product/03959657
Reply:44 views and not one reply?
Reply:What sizes do you actually need in a tap and die set? The one that came up when I looked was for threading and tapping larger than 1/4" up to (I believe) 3/4". If you don't need the set to go over 1/2" often, I'd suggest looking for a complete set that runs up to 1/2" and then just filling in with spare taps/dies as the needs arise in the larger sizes. On the other hand, if you are doing most of your work in the larger sizing, head over to eBay and pick up a good quality set...I bought an Irwin/Hanson set up to 1" for under $100 new. While it isn't top quality, it may be as good as the Interstate brand which I'm unfamiliar with...but they look suspiciously like Irwin/Hanson. Also picked up an older tap and die set in similar size from I think Greenfield...I'd have to go look, or another of the old name brands, for under $50 that appears all but new. Watch the older sets, if you go too old you may run into pre-SAE thread counts.EDIT: I was wrong. Cleveland set up to 9/16" with adjustable dies...$19.00 plus shipping.Last edited by WyoRoy; 04-28-2013 at 08:33 PM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Do yourself a favour and avoid the carbon steel sets, they tend to be brittle and I would never use one in a blind hole. Spend the money to get HSS (high speed steel) taps and dies, even if you start with just the ones that you'll use the most. I picked up an HSS set off CL for $40, so the deals are out there, just have to keep your eyes peeled. If you do decide to go with carbon steel, use plenty of the appropriate cutting oil and lots of cleaning (1/4 turn forward, spin  back to clean, etc). Feel free to use next size up drill size to keep the tension down and use it on thin stuff and clearing threads. Did I mention to avoid blind holes?   When a welder tells you to "stick it", what do they really mean?"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Reply:I guess I should just buy the taps I need and not a set with dies since I don't really need them right now. I was looking at that set because I like to be prepared when I do need them and I won't have to rush around to buy what I need when I need it. I would definitely prefer to buy american made HSS taps. I'm not sure where to buy quality HSS taps that are made here. I don't use ebay and I don't intend on using it.
Reply:Not sure if these ones are HSS but its old USA made craftsman. You will have to bid. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Crafts...item3a8088a7c6Miller Maxstar 200 SDPiperliner #10 Gold
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749 My first set was a Crafstman up to 1/2"-13. Paid like $150 for it I think well over a decade ago.
Reply:I'm very happy with Grisley s Tools.  I bought a set of metric up to 13 mm. HS . cost about 90 dollars. The HS should be stamped in every tap and die. I would not give 5 Dollars for a new set of carbon steel junk.  mac
Reply:MSC and Enco are decent places to find taps and dies. I'd build a set as you need. The Interstate brand, personally, is lesser quality than Irwin Hansen. I typically grind a plug tap into a bottoming tap as most bottoming taps are not true ones. If you can tolerate their constant ads Enco's newsletter has some really good sales from time to time. Always smart to keep an eye out. MSC has the benefit of FAST shipping, usually next day. Enco runs roughly 4-6 days. The ONE benefit of carbon steel taps is if one does break in a hole you can sometimes shatter it with a punch and pick out the bits. Hardly a good reason to use them, and I'll echo the recommendation to go solely with HSS.
Reply:I never use ebay, but I use Craigslist on a fairly regular basis. I don't know of any tool grinding shops around, but I never needed that kind of service before. I figured out that for now I only need a 3/8-16 tap and a 1/2-13 tap. I'm going to slowly piece together a tap set myself, but I'm not sure what type of tap to get (bottoming, plug, etc), how many flutes I need (2, 3, or 4) and what the hell is H2 and H3?! I'll mostly be tapping regular steel, but I may tap aluminum or stainless steel here and there.
Reply:The more I look at taps the more confused I become. Can someone point me in the right direction by educating me?
Reply:MrPete222 aka Tubalcaine is a retired teacher who really knows his stuff and explains things well. He's made an informative series of machine shop videos, well over a hundred, on youtube and here he explains some basic information about taps.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7UvwyLSdsM[/ame]If this isn't the info you're looking for, just hunt around there and you'll find plenty of info about taps and dies.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVnN4jiB7Gk[/ame]Here's another, runs through a little quicker, some info on taps, but more about process, but more good info all the same. Hope this helps, cheers!  Last edited by bearston; 04-29-2013 at 10:39 PM.When a welder tells you to "stick it", what do they really mean?"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Reply:H measurements are thread fit. H1, really tight. H9 quite loose. H3 is a good basic area to be in. http://www.newmantools.com/taps/taptech.htmMore flutes, better chip clearing but weaker tap. Fewer flutes less room for chips, but a bit stronger. Personally I like 3 flute taps, 2 flutes on some of my tiny taps 2-56 for instance. A HSS tap will cut any annealed steel. Hardened steel is basically what the tap is and you'll just roll the edges. The good thing is you'll likely know it's too hard when you drill the hole, it won't be a surprise when you run the tap in.The difference in tapping steel vs. AL is more cutting fluid choices. Kerosene works well on AL, you need a little more substance for steel. Do-drill and Tap Magic will work on both metals. But honestly cutting fluids, most will work, it's definitely personal preference.
Reply:McMaster.com sells GTD or Greenfield Tap and Die sets.  These are top notch.  Buy the taps individually as you need them.  They sell 3 packs with one of each type of tap as well, they are handy.  If you buy 3 packs of 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2 (your most common sizes) you'll be out less than $100.  Their standard tap handles are good but avoid their economy brand, they are junk.http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-taps/=mji57qLast edited by 76GMC1500; 04-30-2013 at 02:03 AM.
Reply:One other thing to think about. If you plan to use taps to thread new holes vs just cleaning up existing holes, plan on getting matching bits as well unless you have a full set of fractional, number and letter bits. Example a #7 bit is what my chart lists for drilling the hole to thread for 1/4"-20. If you don't have a #7, you can go up in size to the next larger bit ( I'd have to look at my chart to see what one is next), but the thread fit will be looser..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by KavallH measurements are thread fit. H1, really tight. H9 quite loose. H3 is a good basic area to be in. http://www.newmantools.com/taps/taptech.htmMore flutes, better chip clearing but weaker tap. Fewer flutes less room for chips, but a bit stronger. Personally I like 3 flute taps, 2 flutes on some of my tiny taps 2-56 for instance. A HSS tap will cut any annealed steel. Hardened steel is basically what the tap is and you'll just roll the edges. The good thing is you'll likely know it's too hard when you drill the hole, it won't be a surprise when you run the tap in.The difference in tapping steel vs. AL is more cutting fluid choices. Kerosene works well on AL, you need a little more substance for steel. Do-drill and Tap Magic will work on both metals. But honestly cutting fluids, most will work, it's definitely personal preference.
Reply:Thanks for catching that Wendell. A little mental dyslexia. My apologies.For me, I buy the taps I need, new, never used. But I'm in a bit of a unique situation. When I'm tapping something it's typically a firearm and breaking off a tap in a hole isn't a pain in the butt, it's a complete travesty. It always ends up being someone's family heirloom that is completely irreplaceable. It's really hard to tell if someone has torqued a tap a dozen plus times and it's just screaming to be broken off. Also I can't tell how dull a tap is till it's in and cutting (call it a failing on my part). Considering how much I charge customers just to drill and tap holes. And the problems associated with a tap failure. I'll buy new taps and replace them often if need be. On a side note on that issue, I've broken two taps on my career. Once when I was just learning and I absolutely man handled it. And once when I borrowed a used tap from a "friend". The used tap snapped so fast it might as well have been cut in half before I even started. (yes, I bought him a replacement tap of better quality as well as two for myself) I've literally tapped hundreds of holes in 4130 and 4140 steels (common barrel steel) and never had an issue other than the two times above. Here's to hoping I haven't jinxed myself. I do have some tapping to get done today. If I were buying for general use, used, or new random sets will work well. If it's mission critical or something you just spent 100+ hours machining, buy a new tap. Just don't be surprised when it cuts 10x better than the cheap used taps. The Greenfield Taps mentioned above are decent taps.Last edited by Kavall; 04-30-2013 at 02:38 PM.
Reply:Hearing you on used taps. They're worth scrap prices.Syncrowave 300Maxtron 450, S-52E, 30A
Reply:I kept trying to rack my brain on the maker of the last taps I bought. They were off amazon because I could get them next day on the cheap. Anyway, look at Atlas Cutting Tools. http://www.atlascuttingtools.com  They were hands down the sharpest taps I've used so far. I haven't tapped many holes with them yet (three to be exact), but I swear they cut metal faster than my straight razors cut hair!
Reply:I scored this USA made VA set of HSS for a whole 45 bucksDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:That looks almost exactly like my older Craftsman set except the case on mine is grey vs Lincoln red. I guess it's important to you so it matches the color scheme on your truck... .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by wendellHearing you on used taps. They're worth scrap prices.
Reply:Tozzi, just to give you a heads-up, those dies are called rethreading dies, not quite the same as threading dies.  I have a similar set made by Craftsman many years ago.  I am not an authority on tooling but I think die sets are usually three threaders on a die and are adjustable by way of a screw to either tighten or open the threads a little.  There may be others here with more knowledge than I.  Still a nice set.   Best  Bob
Reply:DanRT-I have a big Craftsman set that I bought several years ago and if I were doing it again I would buy the individual ones I think I needed on hand, SAE is what I use mostly.  Have a look at your local Fastenal, I have been getting my taps there for the last year or so and have been pleased with them.  I use them to power tap and I get good results.  Hope this helps Walt
Reply:Thanks to everyone for the advice and input. I bought a set of new taps from MSC a couple days ago. I ordered 3 of their tap sets in 1/4-20, 3/8-16, and 1/2-13 since those are the only sizes I will probably need for a while. I would have bought taps from Fastenal when I was there last week, but when I ordered 1/2-13 flange nuts for a project I'm working on at almost $4 a piece when I can get the same ones on the interwebz for about half that and it made me think about how much of their stuff was over priced. I was going to order my bolts from Fastenal too, but they wanted almost $5 per 4x1/2-13 button head allen bolt when I got them online for more than half that. I do plan on checking out those videos on taps, just so I can learn even more about what I'm trying to do.