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Don't expect this to be done in a week. There's a lot of stuff still to be done getting ready for Winter.I initially plugged the wrong numbers into BeamBoy I wound up with some seriously underwhelming load resultsI'm taking the deal on the S6 beam. Not a steal, but a fair price for a 10' section.I need 4K capacity. My heaviest engine is around 2600# from what I gather (Cummins 350, and Detroit 6-71). This capacity also covers about 90% of what I need to possibly lift with my small tractors.The numbers........................................S6x12.5 (This is the estimated weight per foot, I didn't get the details, so I'm taking the lightest specification for this depth beam.......heavier beam is 17.25#/ft)4K load dead center 9' clear spanthe numbersAt 4000 pounds, I'm at half the capacity of this size beam. 2:1 safety factor isn't ideal,, but it's good enough. The probability of dealing with heavier, or even max (4K), loads is very low. I know the limits, and what happens to the second owner is not my problem.I'm leaning towards 3" square tubing for the verticals, but noodling around with the idea of using 4" instead. I don't envision traveling with the crane, but it could happen. Side sway could be an issue. I need to do some calculations on that too I guess. Most of the stress will be at the beam connection, so 3" might be adequate if the beam is properly flanged, and the connection well gusseted.
Reply:I still like this one better. Larger safety margin.https://www.hoistsdirect.com/shop/22298" beam.Click on specifications to look at the drawing, which shows dimensions.
Reply:As much as I would love to watch this build in my case it was much cheaper in the end (time and money) just to buy one.Northern Tool + Equipment Strongway Adjustable Gantry Crane — 4000-Lb. Capacity, 7ft. 10 3/10in.–11ft. 9 3/10in. Lift, 7ft. 9 3/10in. between vertical beams and good casters!Currently $720 (on sale from $770). I like the height adjusting feature, very slick if you use it in different height buildings.If used for off roading I would add outer gussets to the beam and change each caster to a 2x caster walking beam setup.Last edited by SlowBlues; 1 Week Ago at 07:08 PM.
Reply:While looking at the above Strongway crane, for most of us guys this would probably do most jobs around the shop. But, Sammm most always makes his projects to last a life time and he, not having a concrete floor to work off, I don't think this would do what he needs. Just my thoughts, plus, this crane eliminates the challenge we all know Sammm enjoys! BobLast edited by rhunt; 1 Week Ago at 06:44 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by rhuntWhile looking at the above Strongway crane, for most of us guys this would probably do most jobs around the shop. But, Sammm most always makes his projects to last a life time and he, not having a concrete floor to work off, I don't think this would do what he needs. Just my thoughts, plus, this crane eliminates the challenge we all know Sammm enjoys! Bob
Reply:Samm,I think you know that overhead lifting devices are speced with a 5-1 safety factor. The margins are too narrow on the material for the weight. A 6-71 or small cam/BC 350 is nothing to be under when the deflection goes oval. You could strengthen the beam with a channel cap but, that likely kills the "deal" you got on the beamLife, your life is too precious to fool around with hooky cranes. You have a forklift? Make a riggers boom for the forklift with that beam.Steve from SoCal now in HutchMiller Dynasty 300DX Coolmate3 Speedway TorchMiller XMT 450 MPa plus with D-74 MPa Plus Miller Bobcat 225 NTHypertherm Powermax 45And a whole bunch of machines
Reply:Originally Posted by Steve from SoCalSamm,I think you know that overhead lifting devices are speced with a 5-1 safety factor. The margins are too narrow on the material for the weight. A 6-71 or small cam/BC 350 is nothing to be under when the deflection goes oval. You could strengthen the beam with a channel cap but, that likely kills the "deal" you got on the beamLife, your life is too precious to fool around with hooky cranes. You have a forklift? Make a riggers boom for the forklift with that beam.
Reply:I think you should recheck your numbers on the weight of those engines. Seems to me like a 14 liter Cummins is closer to 4,000 lbs. I'm sure it depends on accessories, but you need to keep in mind it may take substancially more force to iniatally break the engine free.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI think you should recheck your numbers on the weight of those engines. Seems to me like a 14 liter Cummins is closer to 4,000 lbs. I'm sure it depends on accessories, but you need to keep in mind it may take substancially more force to iniatally break the engine free.
Reply:I like this, and it's probably the final design. Fore, and aft, sway is taken up by the usual braces that run down to the running gear. I favor around 4" at the bottom due to this. No need for a huge footprint on top of the running gear............you're only looking at a ton per column. The running gear is the least problematic issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmhttps://www.barringtondieselclub.co....55-bigcam.html They're showing 2800#, other places I've looked show 2600# I've got the book on the thing somewhere, but I need to dig it up.
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Reply:Originally Posted by 12V71One thing to remember, pulling an engine from a cabover is going to require a bunch of extra span on a gantry to get the engine out over the side unless you have room to back it out over the rear of the frame.
Reply:Sammm, I'm thinking of the ease of using a boom truck for this application of removing engine and moving from tractor. This has several advantages, height and ease of movement. If building a crane, a flat bed truck could be used or a heavy trailer. Just my thoughts here and I know these thoughts are taking this build in a different direction but the results would be the same. Bob
Reply:Nevermind. Attached ImagesLast edited by 12V71; 1 Week Ago at 03:48 PM.
Reply:This is looking worse by the day. I priced 4x8x3/16 plate.....................$367 And it's too stinkin' short. They can't get 10 footers. Need to cut out 4 pieces per sheet.4x1/4 flat.....................$52I'm not sure this is right, I got one of the minions on the phone, not the owner........................4x4x1/4 square tubing........$450 I'm figuring every damn way I can to get around this without having to make this stinkin' thing. If I can get away with leaving the cab on (I have to work on the other Allis that doesn't have a loader first), I'll do the damn thing with a cherry picker Or, I'll pull the damn loader off the crap Allis, and do it (has no cab).It just sticks in my craw to give a ton of money to some stinkin' merchant It's not his fault, but it's still a real killer. I can get the steel cheaper from another yard , but I don't believe in buying from out of town guys. And..........in the long ago past, I bought some steel from this other outfit, and it was seconds. The dimensions were weird.Cut hay this weekend up near the house, and think about it I guess. This is BS. Then the whole stinkin' next week is doctor appointments, which kills the days.I have enough steel on hand to build the splitting rails, and trolleys, to hold the tractor halves...................and that's about it for now. This is getting real depressing. If you read your history, when JFK was in office, there was a steel crunch. He called the heads of the companies into the Oval Office, and read them the riot act. Price of steel came down to a fair price after the commotion. I believe he shifted Defense spending to companies that supplied cheaper steel. This changed the picture. The companies caved in, and kept prices down.Ultimately, United States steel manufacturers refused to modernize, and eventually lost market share to imported steel.None of this grousing helps my situation, but it feels better blowing off some steam.
Reply:And, I'll guarantee you that if I go in and buy this stinkin' steel, it's gonna be stamped "Made In Mexico". The high prices won't create American jobs. I'll just pay a tariff that the last dood in office placed on steel. I'm fed up with ALL STINKIN' POLITICIANS.Steel comes directly from the Gulf, into Port of Catoosa in Claremore. All of it from Mexico for the most part. This is just plain CRAP.
Reply:Hey......my apologies......Politics doesn't belong in this discussion. I'm just bein' a jerk about it.
Reply:Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way sammm,a handful of times in my life my dad and I built a "temporary" ~12ft high x ~10ft span fixed gantry crane out of wood to work on his dump trucks. Just burried the legs a good amount (packed with gravel and rock), the first time we also built some braces on top of the soil, but found it was completely unnecessary. Simple metal straps and plates for brackets between wood joints, nothing welded.Takes a few hours at most.The wood and material was always free from work. worked wonderfully every time. Usually we would use 6x6 or greater, adding whatever material we felt was needed for the load. Once we used sistered 2x4s (nailed, screwed, and glued), with zero difference). Had to pull the vehicle out/back trailer under instead of moving the crane, no big deal.We later beefed up a car port ridge to act as our gantry crane, works great to this day (20 years later).I would suggest you Use PL premium (I like the 3x version). I like to use nails for the main structural stuff, or REAL structural wood screws (Strong tie type), but deck screws will likely do.I'm not sure how crazy lumber prices are in your area but sometimes building a lifetime tool is just not in cards, sometimes the easiest/cheapest way to go is the absolute best.Cost wise, I would buy a bunch of 2x4s and sister them up with glue, nails, and screws for clamping force. basically home made LVL beams. Look up LVL beams sizes for approximate size requirements for your predicted load.Last edited by SlowBlues; 1 Week Ago at 05:31 PM.
Reply:Forget the exact $$$ amounts my friend told me last night but 5'x10'x1/4" sheet $850.00 at our steel supplier for an example.
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66Forget the exact $$$ amounts my friend told me last night but 5'x10'x1/4" sheet $850.00 at our steel supplier for an example.
Reply:Originally Posted by Lis2323Holy crap. I haven't needed to buy steel for a while. Holy CRAPSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Lars is pretty close on the price. I priced a 5x10 sheet of 1/4 tread. Best price my guy could give me was 600 that was down 150 from listMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
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Reply:K'kins called one of her bosses to see if he knew of some used beams for sale. He said he might have either a 6" or 8" beam up at one of the yards, and it's ours for the taking. THAT IS FRIGGIN' HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sometimes people amaze you.if its the right stuff, gotta be worth a case of beer to the guy for helping out, plus keeps youin the good books for later!!
Reply:8" 3/8 wall 42 foot joints of pipe EIGHT DOLLARS A FOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!10" 1/4 wall NINE DOLLARS A FOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:New pipe?
Reply:Originally Posted by 12V71New pipe?
Reply:I've worked with some nasty pipe, and it's not as bad as it looks. Long as it isn't really badly pitted.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmI've worked with some nasty pipe, and it's not as bad as it looks. Long as it isn't really badly pitted.
Reply:I am going to build one before long but in a few years i want to build a new shop the walls will be shorter in the new shop so i have to figure that out. Its hard to believe that a 855 dosent weigh 2 times what the book says.
Reply:We took a look at the beam today. It's two 40' pieces of W6. It's been laying on the ground for years, but it's been mostly in sandy ground. Digging a bit underneath, I was able to run my finger along the buried flange, and it seems pit free. Sand drains well, not like clay. So.........this is useable stuff.The guy has some 5" (5 5/8 OD) pipe left on the racks. He used to be in the pipe business too. Anyways, I'm not sure, because I didn't know to ask, if this stuff is possibly casing. And if it is casing, is it weldable All I could find on the internet was a discussion in some ABSOLUTE BS AWS FORUM. Bunch of idiots talking all around the subject, and not knowing crap.If this crap is weldable, fine.........if it isn't.......it's back to square one. The consensus on the "expert forum" is that it's difficult to weld right (shrug). What info I could find on the actual pipe is some stuff about class differences.....................D,, and C, class pipe.
Reply:Excuuuuuuuuuuse me.............it was an engineering forum............https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=457871
Reply:The reason we're now looking at 5" pipe is the availability of plenty of the W6. This changes the game entirely.Instead of having to use stouter stuff for a mobile setup, I can now do what I've wanted to do for years. Build a stationary small bridge crane that is moveable.I never was crazy about having to slide a motor over an input shaft while trying to move over rough ground. But, with a small bridge crane, the crane is immobile........while you have full X and Y control over whatever you're lifting. No problems with dealing with unlevel ground.......you can move it into place, then level it. It sits there till you're done, no tugging on it. It's semi permanent. Finish up with it, and tow it out to the pasture, etc...........where it'll sit till the next time you need it.The only problem was................not enough material at a reasonable price. A bridge crane takes a lot of material to build. 4 uprights, and 4 different crossmembers. Then,, you're looking at 3 separate beams. A 10x10x13H crane will take over 100 feet of structural pipe(or square tubing). The beams will just about completely use up a 40' stick of the W6.5" pipe in Texas, according to some Craigslist ads, is around $4/ft. That's more in line with a bare bones budget, and it's more than stout enough for something that won't move with a load on it. I don't anticipate paying more in Oklahoma.I've located a couple of suppliers that sell wraparound templates for marking saddle cuts, so I think it's doable. I'm not a pipe welder, and there's no way I can eyeball a saddle cut.Both the crackerbox, and the engine drive, are AC capable, so I don't see magnetized pipe as a huge problem (yet)
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmDon't expect this to be done in a week. There's a lot of stuff still to be done getting ready for Winter.I initially plugged the wrong numbers into BeamBoy I wound up with some seriously underwhelming load resultsI'm taking the deal on the S6 beam. Not a steal, but a fair price for a 10' section.I need 4K capacity. My heaviest engine is around 2600# from what I gather (Cummins 350, and Detroit 6-71). This capacity also covers about 90% of what I need to possibly lift with my small tractors.The numbers........................................S6x12.5 (This is the estimated weight per foot, I didn't get the details, so I'm taking the lightest specification for this depth beam.......heavier beam is 17.25#/ft)Attachment 17303994K load dead center 9' clear spanAttachment 1730400the numbersAttachment 1730401At 4000 pounds, I'm at half the capacity of this size beam. 2:1 safety factor isn't ideal,, but it's good enough. The probability of dealing with heavier, or even max (4K), loads is very low. I know the limits, and what happens to the second owner is not my problem.I'm leaning towards 3" square tubing for the verticals, but noodling around with the idea of using 4" instead. I don't envision traveling with the crane, but it could happen. Side sway could be an issue. I need to do some calculations on that too I guess. Most of the stress will be at the beam connection, so 3" might be adequate if the beam is properly flanged, and the connection well gusseted.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmThe reason we're now looking at 5" pipe is the availability of plenty of the W6. This changes the game entirely.Instead of having to use stouter stuff for a mobile setup, I can now do what I've wanted to do for years. Build a stationary small bridge crane that is moveable.I never was crazy about having to slide a motor over an input shaft while trying to move over rough ground. But, with a small bridge crane, the crane is immobile........while you have full X and Y control over whatever you're lifting. No problems with dealing with unlevel ground.......you can move it into place, then level it. It sits there till you're done, no tugging on it. It's semi permanent. Finish up with it, and tow it out to the pasture, etc...........where it'll sit till the next time you need it.The only problem was................not enough material at a reasonable price. A bridge crane takes a lot of material to build. 4 uprights, and 4 different crossmembers. Then,, you're looking at 3 separate beams. A 10x10x13H crane will take over 100 feet of structural pipe(or square tubing). The beams will just about completely use up a 40' stick of the W6.5" pipe in Texas, according to some Craigslist ads, is around $4/ft. That's more in line with a bare bones budget, and it's more than stout enough for something that won't move with a load on it. I don't anticipate paying more in Oklahoma.I've located a couple of suppliers that sell wraparound templates for marking saddle cuts, so I think it's doable. I'm not a pipe welder, and there's no way I can eyeball a saddle cut.Both the crackerbox, and the engine drive, are AC capable, so I don't see magnetized pipe as a huge problem (yet)
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmWe took a look at the beam today. It's two 40' pieces of W6. It's been laying on the ground for years, but it's been mostly in sandy ground. Digging a bit underneath, I was able to run my finger along the buried flange, and it seems pit free. Sand drains well, not like clay. So.........this is useable stuff.The guy has some 5" (5 5/8 OD) pipe left on the racks. He used to be in the pipe business too. Anyways, I'm not sure, because I didn't know to ask, if this stuff is possibly casing. And if it is casing, is it weldable All I could find on the internet was a discussion in some ABSOLUTE BS AWS FORUM. Bunch of idiots talking all around the subject, and not knowing crap.If this crap is weldable, fine.........if it isn't.......it's back to square one. The consensus on the "expert forum" is that it's difficult to weld right (shrug). What info I could find on the actual pipe is some stuff about class differences.....................D,, and C, class pipe.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmThis is looking worse by the day. I priced 4x8x3/16 plate.....................$367 And it's too stinkin' short. They can't get 10 footers. Need to cut out 4 pieces per sheet.4x1/4 flat.....................$52I'm not sure this is right, I got one of the minions on the phone, not the owner........................4x4x1/4 square tubing........$450 I'm figuring every damn way I can to get around this without having to make this stinkin' thing. If I can get away with leaving the cab on (I have to work on the other Allis that doesn't have a loader first), I'll do the damn thing with a cherry picker Or, I'll pull the damn loader off the crap Allis, and do it (has no cab).It just sticks in my craw to give a ton of money to some stinkin' merchant It's not his fault, but it's still a real killer. I can get the steel cheaper from another yard , but I don't believe in buying from out of town guys. And..........in the long ago past, I bought some steel from this other outfit, and it was seconds. The dimensions were weird.Cut hay this weekend up near the house, and think about it I guess. This is BS. Then the whole stinkin' next week is doctor appointments, which kills the days.I have enough steel on hand to build the splitting rails, and trolleys, to hold the tractor halves...................and that's about it for now. This is getting real depressing. If you read your history, when JFK was in office, there was a steel crunch. He called the heads of the companies into the Oval Office, and read them the riot act. Price of steel came down to a fair price after the commotion. I believe he shifted Defense spending to companies that supplied cheaper steel. This changed the picture. The companies caved in, and kept prices down.Ultimately, United States steel manufacturers refused to modernize, and eventually lost market share to imported steel.None of this grousing helps my situation, but it feels better blowing off some steam.
Reply:Bill, I can derate to 2000# for now. The 6" beam gives me a super healthy margin at that rating. That's almost 5x overkill (safety margin)If I need to upgrade sometime in the future, I simply use an 8" beam. The side beams aren't an issue, they only carry half of any weight on the main beam. Just be a matter of having the 8" as an accessory. Hang it in place of the 6" beam. Probably need 2 sets of trolleys, but I can probably figure out a way to make one set of trolleys carry 2 different size beams.
Reply:Originally Posted by Steve from SoCalSamm,I think you know that overhead lifting devices are speced with a 5-1 safety factor. The margins are too narrow on the material for the weight. A 6-71 or small cam/BC 350 is nothing to be under when the deflection goes oval. You could strengthen the beam with a channel cap but, that likely kills the "deal" you got on the beamLife, your life is too precious to fool around with hooky cranes. You have a forklift? Make a riggers boom for the forklift with that beam.
Reply:The whole weight thing is mostly dictated by OSHA, and other specs tied to engineering. Safety.I remember when I first put the crane attachment together, I was worried about rating it. I was lifting relatively (what I thought) heavy stuff with the extension completely retracted. Note that the weight is in excess of 6' beyond the base point of the entire system........the lift cylinders. And it's only about 4' out from the attachment. Now here's the potentially dangerous thing about NOT knowing how heavy your lift is. I didn't realize, until I looked at the specs, that the bush hog weighs 1350# AND I HAD THE EXTENSION OUT TO ALMOST MAX. It's swinging around 8' in front of the tractor, and about 13' ahead of the lift cylinders. (for reference, I'm using the place where the cylinder attaches to the loader arm). The nested tubing is extended close to 6+ from the attachment. Ultimately, the entire thing is hanging on 2 1/2 square tubing, nested inside 3" tubing. Stuff will handle way more than you think it will. I run into this all the time.I don't stand under this rig, but will stand under the bridge crane...............so it's a little more sensitive to rating limits.
Reply:Come to think of it, I'm probably out around 10' beyond the tractor, maybe more.
Reply:Weight is crazy to estimate.I just can't understand how the cutter can weigh 1300#, and a Cummins only weigh 2600#. Only thing I can think of......................the Cummins looks massive, but it's mostly hollow
Reply:https://paccarpowertrain.com/wp-cont...0%20X%20162%20 The new motors in the current Peterbilts weighs about the same as the old 855's. It's just a plain PITA to guess weights.
Reply:The 5-1 safety factor is for overhead lifting like bridge/jib cranes. Forklifts/loaders have the same margin within their designed lifting envelope. Forklifts are rated at 24-36 and possibly 48" centers depending on capacity. My 20K forklift will pick up over 30K right at the forks, would I lift that to max height and tilt forward, no way.My Peterbilt has a C13 that weighs about 2800. 3406/C15 weighs about 3800 and N14/ISX around the same. I have a 15K fish scale for weighing stuff, it has been invaluable.Steve from SoCal now in HutchMiller Dynasty 300DX Coolmate3 Speedway TorchMiller XMT 450 MPa plus with D-74 MPa Plus Miller Bobcat 225 NTHypertherm Powermax 45And a whole bunch of machines
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66I might have used stronger language then that when I was told. Been working off inventory so probably haven't bought since late winter early spring. right now I think my steel inventory is worth more than the shop equipment.
Reply:Originally Posted by Steve from SoCalThe 5-1 safety factor is for overhead lifting like bridge/jib cranes. Forklifts/loaders have the same margin within their designed lifting envelope. Forklifts are rated at 24-36 and possibly 48" centers depending on capacity. My 20K forklift will pick up over 30K right at the forks, would I lift that to max height and tilt forward, no way.My Peterbilt has a C13 that weighs about 2800. 3406/C15 weighs about 3800 and N14/ISX around the same. I have a 15K fish scale for weighing stuff, it has been invaluable.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammmBill, I can derate to 2000# for now. The 6" beam gives me a super healthy margin at that rating. That's almost 5x overkill (safety margin)If I need to upgrade sometime in the future, I simply use an 8" beam. The side beams aren't an issue, they only carry half of any weight on the main beam. Just be a matter of having the 8" as an accessory. Hang it in place of the 6" beam. Probably need 2 sets of trolleys, but I can probably figure out a way to make one set of trolleys carry 2 different size beams.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickI borrowed our tenant's forklift years ago it was a big Hyster electric forklift. It had five-foot forks and the big battery installed in it. It was supposed to do 5,000 pounds thirty inches out. I had used it for pallets of 4'x8' sheets of galvanized sheet metal before and it was a rock. But I normally used the smaller propane-powered forklift with four-foot forks to do the 4'x8' sheets and it performed well. This time, in particular, the load came in and it was all 5'x10' sheets and they were centered in the truck, so I got the Hyster and picked up two pallets at once, that should have been about 5,000 pounds by my calculations. There was perhaps a one-degree slope under the forklift, and when I went to lift the load she tilted forward compressing the front tires and perhaps the asphalt. After I pulled the load to the edge of the truck so I could re-choke-up on it, it was better, but it was still bouncing in an uncomfortable way. So all this 2x, 4x,10x safety margin is smoke being blown up our arses if you ask me. I know after the first lift I put my hands under the wheel and grabbed it like my life depended on it. Because if you get thrown up into the cage above, you could easily get some brain damage or a broken neck. And I will never strap myself into a forklift. It would be like strapping yourself to a horse or a bull. Sincerely, William McCormick |
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发表于 2021-8-31 15:01:37