Welder advice for newbies

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Originally Posted by joedirt1966Perhaps an informative Sticky relating to “welder advice for newbies” would be helpful to new members/visitors.  This topic does come up on a frequent basis.  The sticky could address the more commonly used welding processes with their pros and cons, etc.
Reply:I made it a sticky. Let's give it a month, and see if it works. I am betting it at the least gives a few guys a good starting point.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:The following chart contains some very general information relating to the 4 most common welding processes (GMAW, SMAW, GTAW, Oxy-Acetylene) frequently explored by newbies on this forum.  It is not intended to be an exhaustive “text book” list of welding processes.  I'm sure there are numerous omissions in the chart because I am not a professional weldor/welder (whichever you prefer) and because it's too big a topic for one page.  Welding is a very deep subject that does not lend itself to a simple chart or a few sentences in a forum.  The more you read and learn about a subject, the more you come to realize how little you actually know about it. Please correct and/or add information that you feel would be helpful to a newbie who is trying to decide what process best matches his/her needs.P.S.  I tried to attach this as an Excel file but couldn't.  I then tried putting it into a Word file but it ended up being rejected because the file was too big.  I finally put it into a JPG and now it's too small to read.  Guess you'll have to "save as" and use the zoom function to read it.Any advice to make it readable on the WW page would be welcome.Thanks. Attached Images
Reply:Hi Joeyou may try to send it as a PDF file.  I did this as a test but I think as a PDF file the viewer can change the size after getting it on their monitor.If you need a PDF saver there is a free one called pdf995 just google it and down load it.It acts like a printer and you can select it for any doc and it will save it to your folder location then just attach it to your post.have funTom Attached Imagesomg.pdf (24.9 KB, 3502 views)Last edited by acourtjester; 08-08-2010 at 11:33 AM.Reason: spelling error
Reply:Here goes.......again. Attached ImagesWelding Processes PDF.pdf (56.3 KB, 5434 views)
Reply:I might say the thread title would be a better catch all if it read, "HERE IS THE ONLY WELDER YOU SHOULD EVER BUY: Ask your questions here"It would be nice if it actually turned in to the novice catch all question megathread. Then I would feel less of a tool when I post my question on stainless later.
Reply:joedirt1966, your chart looks good.  One suggestion.Under Amperage to thickness rule of thumb, you show 0.001 for MIG, SMAW and TIG.I thought that for SMAW, the rule was amperage to rod diameter = 0.001.As you have it now, newbies might think they need 250 amps to arc weld a 1/4 inch thick plate.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Thanks Rick. Attached ImagesWelding Processes PDF 8-25-10.pdf (56.8 KB, 2137 views)
Reply:Excellent it opened and saved easily Joe and I saved it back for printing and a looksee once in awhile. Thank you much for working it up.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Mig basics 101:110v vs 220v:110v machines top out at 1/8" steel max. Thats usually using fluxcore wire on a machine rated at 140amps. These machines are really useful for sheet metal and body work, but lack the power to produce good welds in heavier steel when used by the average welder. These machines also lack the power to be very useful at all with alum due to the low max output. The upside is that they are very portable and can be run from most 110v outlets. They usually only reach their max rated power however if used on a dedicated 20 amp line, so on average they run at a reduced power level on the average outlet. One of the big issues with small migs is that you can make  a nice looking bead on thicker material that lacks penetration and has no strength.220v machines: The "low" end machines usually top out at 5/16" or 3/8" steel with fluxcore wire or gas mig (both CO2 and C25). Larger machines can weld in excess of 1/2". They can be turned down to run thinner material easily. Many of these machines are designed to run a spoolgun for alum, and machines 200amps and up will run 3/16" alum+ depending on max output. The down side is they require a 220v outlet, similar to a range or dryer so are not as portable. There are some 110v/220v machines like the Miller MM211 that can run on both.Fluxcore vs gas mig:Fluxcore wire is similar to continuous stick welding. You have a flux coating that shields the weld and must be removed. It is messy and smoky and is generally the choice for outdoor work. It will tolerate a bit more contaminants than gas mig. Penetration is usually deeper than gas mig and is why most small "migs" are FC only machines. Also most small 110v migs only reach their rated thickness using FC wire. FC wire on thin steel is quite difficult due to the deep penetrating qualities. FC wire generally runs DC- so the polarity might need to be switched with machines set up for gas mig.Gas: There are several choices for mig gases. FC migs converted to gas will need to have the leads switched to DC+ to run correctly. Gas mig usually is best done indoors or on calm days when a breeze won't blow away your shielding gas.C25, 75% Argon/25% CO2: The usual gas mix for most migs with steel. It's the mix usually listed in the manual. Gives cleaner welds with a bit less penetration. Good for auto body work on thin metal as well as thicker steel.100% CO2: A cheaper alternative to C25. Gives a bit more penetration than C25 so will often be listed for thicker steel on smaller migs. More spatter than C25. The extra penetration can make it difficult with thinner steel. Note an adapter or different reg is usually required to run 100% CO2 as most mig regs come equipped to run C25 / 100% Argon.100% Argon: Used to weld alum.Other mixes are available for spray and Stainless applications.Alum: While many small migs list that they can be used to weld alum, welding alum using the standard gun is usually very frustrating due to the soft wire bending and jamming in the machine/gun. Mig alum usually requires a spoolgun or in industrial migs a push/pull gun..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:As a newbie welder I think this is a great idea.  I have some thoughts:1) Have a moderator edit DSW's first post to keep it up to date with any information posted in this thread (like joedirt's nice pdf).  It would also be nice if the links in the first page were given a short description (like "Advice on buying a mig welder" so people don't have to click on them to learn what they're about.  Some mods don't like editing other people's posts so perhaps a new thread should be started to replace this one.2) I'd love to see a section on recommended books (preferably ones still in print), videos, and youtube links.The following might be out of the intended scope of the newbie thread but here are some other things that I have searched weldingweb for:3) Recommended online sites for buying welding equipment, like cyberweld.com and weldfabulous.com.  Possibly include welding-related sites, like where to buy steel.  (As an example, it took me a while to find a decent site that sells fire bricks.)
Reply:So can we also get the pros to chime in for the most common questions on welds:1. Material2. What a good weld will look like3. How the good weld is obtained.Be it TIG, MIG, Stick, whatever; I think most questions could be answered by having this. I've had issues with stainless where it looks like the weld is "burnt" by some kind of oxide build up, but if I run a wire brush over it, the crap comes off and the weld looks pretty underneath (but I lose the rainbow effect). When I did searches for "stainless tig" and such, I get a lot of results! And those results are people bitching "use the search feature!" Recursive searching doesn't do much. If you could just link to this thread with "go here for this" I think it would save you guys a ton of effort. A novice can look at the 3 step item for say Aluminum, ask them-self "does my weld look like this?" and if not, look at what is different between their setup and the pros. Yes hood time is king, but only perfect practice makes perfect.
Reply:Originally Posted by FormulaXFDSo can we also get the pros to chime in for the most common questions on welds:1. Material2. What a good weld will look like3. How the good weld is obtained.Be it TIG, MIG, Stick, whatever; I think most questions could be answered by having this. I've had issues with stainless where it looks like the weld is "burnt" by some kind of oxide build up, but if I run a wire brush over it, the crap comes off and the weld looks pretty underneath (but I lose the rainbow effect). When I did searches for "stainless tig" and such, I get a lot of results! And those results are people bitching "use the search feature!" Recursive searching doesn't do much. If you could just link to this thread with "go here for this" I think it would save you guys a ton of effort. A novice can look at the 3 step item for say Aluminum, ask them-self "does my weld look like this?" and if not, look at what is different between their setup and the pros. Yes hood time is king, but only perfect practice makes perfect.
Reply:That was kind of why I was thinking in making that 3 part list.Some guy posts, "Derp derp my HF toy isn't weldin' mah all-you-minum." Rather than just say, "uhg search for it," it could be abbreviated by simply saying. "Look here here: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...615#post419615 "The most ironic event I've had in the 'search' route, is finding a page on here that is some guy yelling at a new-bewb to search it. When a "search it" thread comes out at the top of a search, the recursiveness becomes a burden. I could just be greedy, but having a benchmark to gauge myself against with some pictures would go a long way over simply doing the post of the day for whatever metal I'm trying.
Reply:Originally Posted by FormulaXFDThat was kind of why I was thinking in making that 3 part list.Some guy posts, "Derp derp my HF toy isn't weldin' mah all-you-minum." Rather than just say, "uhg search for it," it could be abbreviated by simply saying. "Look here here: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...615#post419615 "The most ironic event I've had in the 'search' route, is finding a page on here that is some guy yelling at a new-bewb to search it. When a "search it" thread comes out at the top of a search, the recursiveness becomes a burden. I could just be greedy, but having a benchmark to gauge myself against with some pictures would go a long way over simply doing the post of the day for whatever metal I'm trying.
Reply:A few more decent threads since I was searching for something else and came across them.Some general thoughts on tig moslyhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=36537One on what processes work well for what applications.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=42160.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I THINK I'm gonna start with gas instead of MIG. All the stuf I've read says start with gas. Even the evening votech class description says begining welding 'gas'. Still cant figure out if HARRIS and VICTOR are manufacturers or styles. Not sure if I wanna buy used or new. I Originally Posted by DSWI thought this was a good idea, so I figured I'd kick it off with some links to a few threads I could dredge up of people asking about recommendations for a 1st welder. Most of mine deal with mig, if anyone can remember a few good ones on tig, stick or O/A add them as well. Maybe we can get someone to write up a quick synopsis of processes and the pros and cons of each.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43726http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43744http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43569http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=39087http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=37573 http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=37226http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=31894Maybe we can cut down on the repetitive "I'm new and need a welder..." questions. Yeah like thats going to happen!
Reply:That was a somewhat twisty road but a great bunch of information! I learned a lot of what I do and don't need, the capacities and capabilities of machines and processes and I've also got to say, this is a great forum. I belong to a couple shooting sports forums and another about technology related topics and this one is well run, well maintained and well 'spoken'! Thanks, again.
Reply:Might I suggest adding this link. I'm a newbie and found it helpful.High Pressure Steel Cylinders - Sizes, capacities and weights.
Reply:Am a newbie here and hope all the links you have placed here will helps me a lot.welder
Reply:Hey all,I just got this book and im gonna start buying peice by piece of all the stuff i need.If anyone can point me in the right direction i would be very thankful!For me i want to weld simple stuff small amount of steel Example would be a finger guard on a knife or minor repairs on a trailer and then go from there. Do some welding machines weld only certain metals? and at a certain temp? Also if one welding something and it left a bead and you grinded it down would it compormise the weld?sorry im trying to make it understandable best as i can.Thanks again! Attached ImagesThe riddle of steel
Reply:Thank God you brought it up, for sure am gaining alot from the postings, the things I never knew Now I will put them in practice.Professional seo servicesPet insuranceCash for gold
Reply:I'm new to this sight and to welding.  What does MIG mean and what does TIG mean?Thank YouWayneGeorgia
Reply:I have a smll wire welder (90ampFlux Wire Welder).  I can't seem to get the wire to feed.  I have a new spool of .030 and a new tip.  I have changed the feed wheel but nothing seems to help.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or what I'm not doing?Thank YouWayneGeorgia
Reply:Originally Posted by WaynesWorldI'm new to this sight and to welding.  What does MIG mean and what does TIG mean?i have just finished a welding course in smaw 6g, does smaw is the right course? or mig. or tig , or fcaw aaahhhh!
Reply:Originally Posted by edsel does smaw is the right course?
Reply:right now I'm using a loan out flux core lincoln weldpak 100. I have scrap practice pieces that are 1/8 to 1/4 thick. Any advice on which shapes/patterns are easiest for a beginner? I've had the most luck with just perpendicular lines. I tried circles and triangles and not much luck. Also I've been doing welds horizontally for now, what are the differences on pushing or pulling? I tried both aand it seems pushing the puddle makes the weld widerHere's a picture of average weld. Do I need to sand down the metal more than I did? (I only used a flap disk and wire wheel to remove the rust)Also if I'm welding 2 pieces of steel how far should the weld penetrate through each piece? Thanks Attached Images
Reply:This was the first thread I read here, even before I registered, and it's outstanding. I've already learned some new stuff, by Googling for things I saw on Joe's PDF chart, like "gasless flux core." Because of DSW's mention of C25, I went and looked that up, too. (I consider a day wasted unless I learn something, and now I've learned a couple of things. Plus, I didn't break anything or get yelled at during the learning experience.  )I'm hoping to get into a SMAW course at one of the area Adult Ed programs, maybe in February, and I'm pleased to have found a resource like this forum. Thanks, Joe, and all contributors.Good stuff.
Reply:First off Great stuff guys. Second off I am a Noob and I'm unsure if this would be the right Thread to ask on but here goes. So I was hopin to get some input on a low budget TIG. I only have $500 total to work with. I will be using this to learn with. Once I feel I've done good and get your approvels, I will be starting some projects. The first Project I had in mind was hard tailing my xs750. So not fray away from the question But What is my best bang for under $500.00. Thanks alot for any help. And yes I'm constantly checking C/L. lol Thanks again.
Reply:Originally Posted by PhantomzillaFirst off Great stuff guys. Second off I am a Noob and I'm unsure if this would be the right Thread to ask on but here goes. So I was hopin to get some input on a low budget TIG. I only have $500 total to work with. I will be using this to learn with. Once I feel I've done good and get your approvels, I will be starting some projects. The first Project I had in mind was hard tailing my xs750. So not fray away from the question But What is my best bang for under $500.00. Thanks alot for any help. And yes I'm constantly checking C/L. lol Thanks again.
Reply:brenno,Thanks for the reply. yes i'm in the US. I know I probably not gonna get the best welder unless I get a deal on C/L. My budget kinda leaves me stuck with the Ebay selection. I'm okay with that for now until I get some practice in and later on some loot to get a good welder. So I guess my question should have been. What Ebay Tig welder should I get that would serve my purpose.  Just looking to get started and and do a couple some projects. I'd go mig but i've tried my dads and the auto feed I kind get hung up on. I'd like something I can set my own pace and that produces a good looking strounger weld. But Thanks again Brenno,Rob
Reply:Great sticky.The PDF is super.I picked up a small O/A rig and am taking a course at the local CC. My Miller VS Lincoln; FCAW VS SMAW questions will come later in the spring. RC
Reply:Never try to learn welding from youtube videos! If the source of your information isn't published by a reputible source (LINCOLN, HOBART, MILLER, AWS, etc...), take it with a grain of salt.
Reply:Thanks for sharing a very important topic that will go in my file for reference ASAP.Lincoln 305GLincoln 100 WeldpakAssortment of Victor, Smith and Harris TorchesDont Worry About the Mule-Load the Wagon!Lincoln 305GUnion Carbide TorchDon't Worry About the Mule~Load the Wagon!
Reply:Hello everyone, I have been wanting to get into welding for a while now, but the subject of choosing which equipment to get, or even which classes to take has always been my breaking point. It seems to me that all the methods are capable of welding steel and aluminum( I am ultimately interested in both) so that does not cancel any of them out, difficulty is not something I ever factor into a decision, including the time when I decided the best car to use to learn to work on cars is a BMW( no regrets, just hard learned lessons) so basically it comes down to finances, potential quality of weld, and availability of knowledge. Finances make up initial investment, long term sustainability, and costs of  scaling up. With all electric systems it seems that I might be looking at 700 to 100 minimal investment to get everything I need to get started on the low end( maybe lower but I have a hard time trusting harbor freight tool lifespan). The step up from there is like 2000 or more... ouch. Oxyacetylene seems like further investments would be like... a bigger torch for 500 or something, and there is no reason anything should break there. So it seems like oxyacetylene is the most budgeted investment. The thing is i can't get a feel for the cost to sustain a supply of necessary consumables for any of the systems. The other thing is that i can't tell if one method creates better weeds than others. Mig seems to have the largest community so it would be easiest to get advice for which is definitely important, but would i be sacrificing quality and strength for ease of use?in regards to an earlier question, from what i have read, pushing creates cleaner welds because the shielding gas, if you have one, blows off any residue from the weld, if you pull,that residue settles on your weld. Not sure if this can simply be sanded off or not,but I expect the safer route would be to push whenever possible.Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Reply:Is there a thread yet on comparisons between the Miller and Thermlarc 3 in 1 welders? Did a search, didn't come up....
Reply:http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...threephase.phpLast edited by WildWoodie; 05-01-2012 at 01:57 AM.
Reply:Hello everyone, I'm also a newbe, and I have some questions I hope some one can help me with. My welder is a135 Mig I got from Norhtern Tool. It has a gas hook up but I;m using the flux core .030 wire it came with. Set up the polarities for the wire and everything seems to be set correctly.I set the voltage at #3 setting and the wire speed at between 5 and 6 as recommended from the settings label inside the machine. Well I ran a bead and I seem to be getting a lot of spatter and popping. I believe I am at he correct distance from the material but I'm not absolutely sure. So I tried to fine tune the speed, but still getting that popping sound and I;m having difficulty keeping a straight bead. I'm also having a hard time seeing anything as all I have is an old welders helmet but I plan on getting a self darkening one very soon. In all my beads look terrible! Maybe they might improve when I add the shielding gas. Can anyone give me some tips or tell me what I might be doing wrong? I hope this pic is clear and can see the problem I'm having. I know its just a matter fine tuning the machine or my technique sucks. Any help is very much appreciated.Thanks......... Attached Images
Reply:Here is a better pic. Looks nothing like bobjenkins pic. this is all over the place. Embarrassing. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by CrossbonesHey all,I just got this book ...
Reply:Hi, Im in Canada and wanted to get some info on the Red Seal program...what Im wanting to know is when I get my CWB ticket, and pipe so do I have to work in the same province until Im Red Seal? or can I just go to another province and work?
Reply:Originally Posted by legotech7Here is a better pic. Looks nothing like bobjenkins pic. this is all over the place. Embarrassing.
Reply:You should be welding on shiny metal, if you're not, clean it up first. You'll have a heck of a time welding through mill scale http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23You should be welding on shiny metal, if you're not, clean it up first. You'll have a heck of a time welding through mill scale
Reply:Being a newbie this has all helped me out a ton, thank you
Reply:Great post.  This helped me a lot.  Answered some question I had about what's best for what."Never mistake education for intelligence."AIRCO Oxy/AccMiller Thunderbolt
Reply:One thread and so much covered. Thanks a lot! I am currently pursuing a welding course
Reply:Hi,I've scanned through this thread and understand about searching from other forums I'm in.  Thing is, I don't know much at all about welders and really need some advise.  I want to get a welder for my husband for Christmas.  He's got a project car and has said he would like a welder.  He initially said a MIG welder and I'm looking at a Hobart Handler® 210MVP as per the advise of a friend who has one.  Last week he found a three in one thing at Northern tools.  When I pressed him, he said it has a plasma welder but with a TIG welder and he was looking for one with a MIG.  The combo thing is 700.00ish, the MIG 900.00ish.  He DID say he wanted one that worked off 220v.  900.00 is the outer edge of my budget.  ANY help, advise would be GREATLY appreciated!Last edited by ConfusedSpouse; 12-20-2012 at 10:38 AM.Reason: spelling!
Reply:#1 - you get what you pay for.  #2 - any combination with multiple capabilities will not be as good as a single unit.  The combos are compromises and never as good as a single unit in the same price range.#3 - I would certainly go with Hobart or Miller over Northern Tools unless it was just for a rarely used plaything.Welcome aboard!Best wishes,Ken