For The Can I TIG With My Welder People.

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This is how we do it out in the field away from all the modern conveniences. You can hook up to any constant current power source and TIG away on DC all day long. No remote, no foot pedal, no nonsense. TIG rig, air cooled, with a gas valve.Remember to turn gas on before you start your arcHooked up to any stick welder, rember to switch your leads to DCENThe full rig againDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:we used to do that in the shop sometimes, just so that we wouldn't have to switch out leads and grounds and all that, just attach the stinger to the torch.  It works well enough especially if your power source has HF start, a lot of the work I did wouldn't allow scratch starting so that eliminated most stick power supplies right there.Then again we didn't do field work either.
Reply:Nice.
Reply:Tozzi, I have a Miller Shopmaster and I just found this out a month ago while talking to Miller. He said the same thing you are. Just get a torch with a gas valve and do scratch start. I have very minimal expierence with tig. I ran some beads on flat alum in college a long time ago. I was thinking of buying a torch but decided to wait until I get a HF unit. Now seeing this post makes me think about it again. I know you can't do alum without HF. How is using scratch start? Can you use it on stainless? Is it worth getting or wait until I get a HF? I basically would use it just to start learning tig. Also I thought I would need a pedal. Is it difficult to use without one?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:For a lot of years that is all I had.  Then I got a hi freq box so I could weld aluminum.  Then I got the TA-185.If you can weld with that stuff, a foot pedal, HF start, adjustable wave, gas solenoid on a timer and water cooled torch are all luxuries.David Hi Toz  Stick-man, Just do it!  Screw the hi freq for now.  Once you do some tig, you will buy more stuff.Last edited by David R; 02-02-2010 at 07:08 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I can pass X-ray on SS and carbon pipe with that rig scratch starting. That old torch has made me some $$$ Hows things DaveDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I happened to go for a late night cup of cofee yesterday. A friend of a friend, a weldor, was there. He happens to mainly do tig on restaurant equipment, using scratch start. So I was talking his ear off till about 1:30a this morning and he agreed to help get me started. He has only been a weldor for 30 years, so I hope he knows what he is doing"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI can pass X-ray on SS and carbon pipe with that rig scratch starting. That old torch has made me some $$$ Hows things Dave
Reply:I paid my dues, Now every machine I have has touch start tig with a plug for the remote Except the V155-S has no remote capabilities.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thats all i use with my little 80amp stick inverter. Im so use to scratch start it feels weired using the foot pedal. Im so used to pulling away to break the arc.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manTozzi, I have a Miller Shopmaster and I just found this out a month ago while talking to Miller. He said the same thing you are. Just get a torch with a gas valve and do scratch start. I have very minimal expierence with tig. I ran some beads on flat alum in college a long time ago. I was thinking of buying a torch but decided to wait until I get a HF unit. Now seeing this post makes me think about it again. I know you can't do alum without HF. How is using scratch start? Can you use it on stainless? Is it worth getting or wait until I get a HF? I basically would use it just to start learning tig. Also I thought I would need a pedal. Is it difficult to use without one?
Reply:thanks for the thread on this. i just recieved a trailblazer 301g from an old friend/boss.i have'nt used gas power welders much. did you braze a piece of brass on that coupler, or is it a special. i really can't tell by the picture. thanks again, wally
Reply:Originally Posted by SR20steveFor times when you cant touch your work and scared of getting tung inclusion with this same setup you can use the edge of your filler rod and literally strike it from your work piece across your tungsten quickly and it will also start the arc.
Reply:Originally Posted by pumahvacdid you braze a piece of brass on that coupler, or is it a special. i really can't tell by the picture. thanks again, wally
Reply:thanks black wolf. i'll look into it.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedSteve,I don't quite follow . . . would you explain your technique more fully?  My mental picture is still a little fuzzy.TIA
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeTouch filler rod to work piece, strike filler rod against tungsten.  Arc gets struck off the side of the tungsten on the filler rod, rather than the tip against the base metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedThat'll take some practice . . . thanks for the response.Jim
Reply:Nice, Thanks Tozzi, I'll be rigging up my bobcat this week the same way. Thanks for posting.
Reply:I build and maintain heaps of these. Some Airgas part numbers:Power block - RAD64005406Rooster Tail style TIG cap - RAD64005643Button cap- RAD64005646Argon hose fittings - RAD64003964 (reusable hose clamps, I like these)TIG torch body - 17FV RAD64005474TIG torch assy - (body above WITH cable) - (RAD64005478Buy argon hose by the foot and use fittings. If you damage a premade hose, you can't fix it in the field. If you damage the TIG power cable, they make NICE lightweight conventional stinger cables.
Reply:I learned on a TIG rig just like that accept we had the top of a mountain dew bottle covering the stinger and power cord connector lol no bs worked great. If you learn on this and then move to HF, Crater Time, Pre and Post and ofcourse Pulse ...Wow what luxuries but i still love breaking out the old TIG rig and running with it sometimes...Good post my friend...
Reply:We use Dew and other soda bottles at the school where I work, but the plastic lube jugs as shown have better stinger clearance.
Reply:I run the same setup w/ 50ft cables and a simple purge line with my Dynasty.Going from a Synchro 250 w/ EVERY bell and whistle, this taught me how to REALLY weld.
Reply:I think everyone learning to tig weld should start out this way. I still use this set up at home in my shop. I love the simplicity. No fancy high frequency or foot pedles here. I have tweco connecters on my stick whip and on the tig torch and simply swap back and forth to go from stick to DC tig. I use a CK roto head tig torch with twist gas valve.Last edited by snoeproe; 12-19-2010 at 08:25 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Don't hate me cause I have a foot pedal and a heated shop to work in.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30AThat setup "tig rig" is exactly how its done in the refinery i worked at for 10 years. The welder had his own rig and just tapped it into whatever engine drive and argon bottle that was sitting there and welded the joints. Then he moved on to the next one. I think most were Weldcraft W-17 if i remember right...BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:This is exactly the setup I am currently putting together to learn Tig.  Good thread!
Reply:what happens when you have to weld aluminum?....
Reply:Originally Posted by Metarinkatrue that, but there's a big difference between passing xrays and being code compliant. I'm not a big fan of scratch starting, but it works well enough.
Reply:Originally Posted by tig_21what happens when you have to weld aluminum?....
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingYou use the Syncrowave, or hook the HF-251 box up to the engine drive
Reply:AC and Hi Freq for aluminum unless you want to play with helium and DC+...............Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:thats what I thought - I was scratching my head wondering if there was some revolutionary new equipment out there...Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:I'm doing this with my 1978 Miller Thunderbolt AC and TC-150 DC converter, VisArc II torch etc. Is anyone familiar with the VisArc line of torches? I need consumables for it, and a manual .
Reply:Originally Posted by tig_21what happens when you have to weld aluminum?....
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI know you can't do alum without HF.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure you also can't do aluminum on DC.
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeTouch filler rod to work piece, strike filler rod against tungsten.  Arc gets struck off the side of the tungsten on the filler rod, rather than the tip against the base metal.
Reply:This needs to be a stickey so stuck it is....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Thanks for this post, I used it to set up my scratch start rig a while back.I have started experimenting using the filler rod to start the arc on t-joint fillets where I am resting the cup in the joint with a short electrode extension, making it is difficult to scratch close to the joint.I am having mixed results: looking for steady travel uniformity by sliding the torch, but it is harder to see the puddle without increasing travel angle too much.Also, with no foot pedal I am used to varying the arc length a little as needed, as opposed to resting the torch on the work. I am wondering if varying travel angle can be used effectively to vary the arc length without losing proper gas coverage or balling up the filler rod.Any tips for the no foot pedal guys would be appreciated, and yes, I would like to upgrade to a "real" tig machine eventually.....(why do I just know some smart #ss is gonna reply "buy a machine with a foot pedal") Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 and WP17. 75A AC is for pipe thawing!HH 140 - new addtion 9/2012.I didn't agree, but hoped for Hope and Change.I got change for myself and my family: for the worse.This is the reality of: Barackalypse Now. Again.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGThe way I do it... set your cup down on the pipe with your tungsten just about where you'll have it while welding, then take your wire and strike it quickly against the tungsten and the work at the same time. POW!!!! you got fire, just make sure you turn the gas on first.
Reply:like they always say, It's like striking a match. You have to do it fast, if you just float that wire down there it's gonna get stuck on the tungsten, you gotta whip it.Of course, I'm talking about welding on pipe, if you're doing a T joint it's gonna be tougher to get the right motion on the wire cause you can't come at it from the side.
Reply:So these new "lift tig" machines.....what is the difference between "scratch start" and "lift arc"....and "lift arc"...and still won't work for aluminum correct?
Reply:Originally Posted by polarred21what is the difference between "scratch start" and "lift arc"....and "lift arc"...and still won't work for aluminum correct?
Reply:Scratch start tig works very well with mild steel, at least it does for me, and is what I have been learning with.These I built with my scratch start rig consisting of an Airco Bumblebee 250 AC/DC machine, a WP17v tig torch and argon bottle with flow meter.
Reply:Really nice fabriaction here. Using AC or DC?
Reply:Originally Posted by polarred21Really nice fabrication here. Using AC or DC?
Reply:I just found this thread and always have wanted to learn TIG. I have a Lincoln ranger 250 that I can use as a power source. My question is, I have found a good deal on a Lincoln Tig module wih a peddle, bottle, basicly a complete set up. Is all that neseccessary since I still won't be able to weld aluminum.This is more of a hobby for me and if I can learn to scrath start I would be content especially if having a module and peddle won't allow me to weld anything I couldn't weld with a scrath start set up.
Reply:Originally Posted by huck65I just found this thread and always have wanted to learn TIG. I have a Lincoln ranger 250 that I can use as a power source. My question is, I have found a good deal on a Lincoln Tig module with a peddle, bottle, basically a complete set up. Is all that necessary since I still won't be able to weld aluminum.This is more of a hobby for me and if I can learn to scratch start I would be content especially if having a module and peddle won't allow me to weld anything I couldn't weld with a scratch start set up.
Reply:I didn't see this thread until zap stuck it from another threadI have about the same setup as Tozzi except i'm running it off the TB302lift start but after using it on body panels i got a pedal controller that terry suggested You start hot but i have to keep breaking the arc because it is over heating the sheet metal panels i need to throttle back once it's hot enough to puddle the silicone bronze i'm using and it's 3/32 and i needed 1/16 but the LWS was out so i have to really heat the rod more than the base metal which is 16 GA and 20 Ga Running 70 amps using 1/16 2 % thoriatedBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck