Respirator under helmet

admin

Being a Farmer sometimes requires me to weld rusty or painted steel or cast that I cant get to in order to clean it, and have to occasionally have to weld galvanized steel. So my question is does anyone use a 3M 6000 respirator under a Miller Digital Performance Hood?Miller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:yup. I wear a 3m respirator under a miller hood everyday. Its not a auto dark, but I still think the actual hood is the same. I like it a lot. I was getting frustrated wearing dust masks because they would fog my glasses up. No more fogged glasses and it offers more protection.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:3m 7502 with the gray 2297 filters is the cats meow.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I can fit my 3m with the pink filters under my pipeliner helmet
Reply:It is a respirator for welding after all. This should be a sticky.
Reply:Hello,my first post here after lurking for a couple of months.  I home fabercated a supplied air resperator for spraying urathane paint and am in the planning stage of adapting the hose to my helment.  Very simple rig consisting of an induced draft furnace blower pulling air through a box covered with hepa furnace filter,air flows through 30 feet of cpap hose to a clip on my belt then to a tyvek painter's hood.  The flow of fresh air not only makes breathing much easier than a mask,it cools my head,neck and sholders, keeps sweat out of my eyes and prevents eye glasses fogging.  I believe it will work just as well while welding.  I just havn't decided how to keep hose in place under the helmet. I'm leaning toward a hose barb epoxied in a  hole through helmet.
Reply:farmwelder'To weld well - you have to be comfortable'.A respirator - under a hood that will accommodate a respirator - is not comfortable - BTDT.It can be hot, wet, and out of position gets heavy,which speeds fatigue, and exacerbates vision.Instead of living in the cloud - manage the cloud.Blowing [fan] the weld area enough to do anythingdisturbs the weld envelope - and is a 'no-go'.What does work is 'drawing' -  place the fan/suckunit behind/over - your weld area.No respirator, regular hood, and no cloud to search through.I have a Farm Store of fans and ducting: 12v to220v 3-ph.  My most used fan is: a $20.00 box fan from . . .The key - to this simple/best solution is to take the fixturing time and effort - to make it work.Consider 'source capture/venting' the welding plume.Opusps - Weld as naked as you can . . .
Reply:3M respirators fit under hoods fine, its the filter that makes the difference. The pancake filters like the pink ones are only for "nusance level" fumes as defined by OSHA. OK for everything you mentioned except galvanized. For that a cartridge filter would be better. Pancake filters fit under hoods, cartridge filters fit under some hoods. Won't fit under my harbor freight hood.
Reply:I might be wrong but it is a welding filter. The nuisance part pertains to the carbon element and is a must. Sent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkCRIME SCENES, COURT DATES, FUNERALS, RIDING THROUGH THE CITY WITH A BITCH THAT IS JUST BEAUTIFUL IT'S JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL.
Reply:Their new version of the pink P100 filter is 2297 and it's for welding but for particulates and nuisance organic vapors below the PEL level. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) Pretty nice filter actually, brownish with pink dots. That's the one I'm using. However once the vapor gets past the level for "nuisance" you need cartridges. They have much more activated carbon than the pancake ones do.Edit: after writing the above, I read further in the 3M literature and found they're stating it offers protection up to 10 times PEL (Permissible Exposure Limit) for particulates with a half faceplate mask and below PEL for vapors. I'm guessing welding galvanized produces both?Last edited by JD1; 03-11-2015 at 01:12 PM.
Reply:So I agree with mikecwik on this one and asked Pretty Please and Zap hath brought this thread to pass as a Sticky.  When I get some more time (maybe this weekend) I'm going to start linking to other respirator threads, respirator manufacturers, etc.  If some of you goof-offs  have more immediate chances to do the same thing, feel free.  It's about time we had a sticky on respiratory safety around here.  And I don't mean Stick-Man either.
Reply:I used to wear the 3M respirators. As Opus stated, they get hot and sweaty in the warmer months. Starts to hurt the back of your head from the straps. If it's not tightened enough, it's worthless. I believe the general rule of thumb is if you can smell anything through those respirators, it's not seated properly. That being said, I got so fed up with them, that I just purchased the 3M PAPR system. It's real nice having the fan constantly blowing air, almost acts as a fan during the warmer months! But the helmet is pretty heavy and gets cumbersome over long periods of time. But I also weld galvanized steel and I can't smell a thing now while welding it! It's an expensive setup, but well worth it to me.John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:Originally Posted by Econdron It's an expensive setup, but well worth it to me.
Reply:Yes, i would put the ability to breathe as number one, for if not able to breath, you can cancel everything else. Raf
Reply:Originally Posted by EcondronI used to wear the 3M respirators. As Opus stated, they get hot and sweaty in the warmer months. Starts to hurt the back of your head from the straps. If it's not tightened enough, it's worthless.
Reply:For the guy who does not care to wear a respirator because it makes the back of his head hurt..............come on man. If you don't want to wear one just say I am a dumb bunny and don't want to wear one.I always miss my filter change dates by a couple years but I happen to be sitting on a huge box of spares so this is what my filters look like in less than two months. I estimate that I was wearing it for about 40 hours minimum. The best part is is that had I been alone (which no matter how many people are around me I always am) I might have only needed to be wearing it two hours. All this crap is from idiots working around me.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWGood PPE is a bargain when you think about what not using it, or using cheap substitutes would cost you in the long run. How much would you pay to have your health back? Your eye sight, the ability to hear or even the ability to breath properly are priceless, but most unfortunately only learn that AFTER they pay the price with their body.
Reply:I have a question for you seasoned pros, if welding in my 10 by 13' shed with doors open and both windows open and a exhaust system with a ventilator and 8" flex alum 12 -16 " away from the work. Exhaust will go out the window.  Should I still wear a half respirator with p100 or P2297?Not welding galvanized or painted metal.  Just want to be safe. Thank You for all the help you guys have been giving me. This is a Great Forum with wonderfully gifted people. We should have a huge get together for all the members somewhere. That would be very cool. Raf
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69I can fit my 3m with the pink filters under my pipeliner helmet
Reply:Originally Posted by rafHi Mike,What brand pipeliner ? Is it the North pipeliner ?Is there a glass lense and is there need to upgrade to a better headgear. On Amazon, the replacement headgear is from 18-36 and all three look the same. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Raf
Reply:Hello
Reply:Anyone have any problems wearing any of these respirators with a optrel helmet? I have the newest model optrel. The specific model is in my sig line.   Looking to get a respirator dedicated to welding.Dynasty 200DX   (2014)Millermatic 211 (2015)Optrel 864   (2014)Smith Medium duty MBA 30510 (Xmas 2014)Tennsmith 16ga 4ft finger brake (2015)Trailblazer 325 EFI and excel Thermal dynamics Cutmaster 82Miller maxtron 450
Reply:Yes, I would put the ability to breathe as number one, for if not able to breath, you can cancel everything else.Raf or as the lung association says "when you can't breathe nothing else matters"Being a newbie, but also having been a certified Haz Mat remediation worker, Asbestos worker, confined space rescue tech, blah blah blah. Allow me to add this brief summaryThere are 2 main respiratory hazards in welding: 1)metal fumes and particulates. 2) vapors/gases  Each of these needs a certain type of respirator cartridge to be effective in general a p100 will stop most particulates up to the level the mask can accommodate.Think of it like a coffee filter, the filter keeps out the coffee grounds but you still get coffee.  For other things in the air vapors from burning paint or plastics you will need a separate cartridge. This cartridge will be for filtering chemicals in the air, or the coffee part of the coffeeA excellent principal is that, as Opus brought up is the engineering controls are primary. Meaning if you can set up a fan, use a different material, or whatever to avoid making the problem that is better (and required by law) rather than trying to stop the junk from getting into your lungs with a piece of safety equipment.EPS Conduit  CouplerGraviton emitterPhase coil resonatorTweeco Fabricator 181older Century buzz boxLincoln 110 box
Reply:I use one of these...http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Produ...aspx?site=/usaIt fits under the welding hood well, and the canisters are behind you.Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROfarmwelder'To weld well - you have to be comfortable'.A respirator - under a hood that will accommodate a respirator - is not comfortable - BTDT.It can be hot, wet, and out of position gets heavy,which speeds fatigue, and exacerbates vision.Instead of living in the cloud - manage the cloud.Blowing [fan] the weld area enough to do anythingdisturbs the weld envelope - and is a 'no-go'.What does work is 'drawing' -  place the fan/suckunit behind/over - your weld area.No respirator, regular hood, and no cloud to search through.I have a Farm Store of fans and ducting: 12v to220v 3-ph.  My most used fan is: a $20.00 box fan from . . .The key - to this simple/best solution is to take the fixturing time and effort - to make it work.Consider 'source capture/venting' the welding plume.Opusps - Weld as naked as you can . . .Many od you have mentioned that u use the 3m respirators.The miller lpr-100 respirator looks well built with it being more low profile: http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.co...ask-respiratorAnyone used it?   I imaging the only possible negative compairing to the 3m is less compatability of the filters. Guesing home depot doesnt sell the cartridge for these .Dynasty 200DX   (2014)Millermatic 211 (2015)Optrel 864   (2014)Smith Medium duty MBA 30510 (Xmas 2014)Tennsmith 16ga 4ft finger brake (2015)Trailblazer 325 EFI and excel Thermal dynamics Cutmaster 82Miller maxtron 450
Reply:outdoort:Yes I just purchased the lpr-100. I am a weekend welder with limited experience. I think it is fantastic: - For one you are getting a respirator from a company that produces welders. This is a huge deal for liability and safety concerns. I feel like all of the potential research of mask protection (that would still leave you wondering) is non-existent. - It fits under my mask without a problem. - It's very easy to breath through. I cannot stress that enough.  - The filters are cheap enough. the "3m 7502" costs the same price but doesnt come with filters. If you break that down on price... the LPR-100 is actually $15. The filters are $10. Yes, a bit excessive for the filters. My 3M R95 mask is about $5 a pair. I would rather use the LPR-100 respirator for EVERYTHING. It's much more comfortable and convenient than my 3M R95 mask. It doesn't get in the way like larger masks. I just have to take it off and switch to my larger mask when not welding to ensure I get a good life out of the $10 filters. It's hard though. welding...grinding...welding...grinding...etc. It is a bit of a toss up if you are trying to save the filters and save your time of switching back and forth.
Reply:I now wear a North Backpack Adapter, and haven't looked back since.https://www.kmstools.com/index.php?m...ort=20a&page=2its' great because it balances the weight better, taking the cartridge weight off your face, and the cartridges are on my back, so they last longer. it fits fine under my Lincoln 3350.I have now solved my respirator problem, now I need to focus on finding comfortable goggles that won't fog up.
Reply:3M 7502 + 3M 2297 P100 + Nuisance Level Organic Vapor ReliefPreviously used3M 7502 + 3M 2291 P100... Both worked/work well for me.  Fits under Miller Digital Elite.http://amzn.com/B004HXBCMGhttp://amzn.com/B009POHH94http://amzn.com/B009POHG2M
Reply:This type of hood is GREAT! I used this type, only a 3M brand, when working in a lead smelter here in Missouri. When welding in that place, you could get "leaded out", or sent off the job, if your blood-lead count got up too high. This is a "positive air flow" helmet, which means it uses filtered, forced air by way of a battery powered blower/filter which you wear on a belt. And in the summer, (or in a smelting plant, or over a weld), just the constant movement of air is enough to keep you cool. http://www.northernsafety.com/Produc...-Helmet-System This whole system doesn't cost much more than a good hood would, and it beats the heck out of being suffocated by a sealed mask. And you don't have to shave to use it, either."When I rest, I rust"  Old German proverb
Reply:My favorite general dust mask is the NORTH 7190.Easy breathing and fits under the welding hood.You can pay $7.90 EA, or go to  medical supply website and pay only $172.00!!!Same mask.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 08-23-2015 at 08:41 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by farmwelderBeing a Farmer sometimes requires me to weld rusty or painted steel or cast that I cant get to in order to clean it, and have to occasionally have to weld galvanized steel. So my question is does anyone use a 3M 6000 respirator under a Miller Digital Performance Hood?
Reply:Glad to see this is a topic on the forum. Thirty yrs ago when my boss gave me some old galvanized tank seawater circulation screens to "modify" I was cutting and welding that stuff for about 2 week straight without any ventilation or respirator.  Couldn't figure out why I was dead to the world at the end of the day, but felt better in the morning..... got worse and worse as the project went on. Finally my husband started looking through the shop's MSDSs and found info on Zinc Oxide Poisoning. .... he took me to ER and sure enough I was diagnosed with Metal Fume Fever. This was before OSHA was around in the commercial fishing industry.   Scary thing is that those heavy metals don't ever break down in our bodies. ... lesson learned - respirators and good ventilation are a must.Curious on whether anyone has ever tried a setup with pressurized breathing air masks like they use in the shipyards for going into voids/tanks when they're gas-freeing or painting? Those air hoses are just a bit bigger than oxygen/acetylene hoses. No fogging issues either, but the hose might be a problem when welding, and probably not practical for out in the field work. Just a thought.
Reply:I wear the 3m with the pink P100 as well. It can be a pain at times but it well worth it. I wore it a week ago at the Lincoln Electric flux core welding class and was the only one wearing one in any of the booths
Reply:I have a lpr -100.I used the throw aways before but could always smell welding or grinding .Now I smell nothing,comfortable to wear,easy to breath,fits great under the hood.IMHO a great respirator .
Reply:For those who said the their mask fogged up their glasses then your mask is not fitting properly.You have leaks would be the reason for the fogging. Too check this cover both filter ports with your hand or better yet some masking tape and try to breathe in. If you can still breathe in then you need to get a proper fitting mask.
Reply:You still have exhaust breath leaving mask.
Reply:We wear N95s at work, haven't really run into an issue of them fogging, but given what comes out of your nose at the end of the shift if you don't wear one, it's worth wearing it.
Reply:I only wear a dust mask when I stick weld indoors. This one only lasted 4 hours and it was clogged with particles. You don't want this crap in your lungs, so spend the money. I use 2-3 mask per day but I don't wear one with MIG welding unless I'm welding trough paint. They get wet from breathing and it becomes impossible to breathe. The disposable mask with a rubber valve are much easier to breathe. I had a 3M respirator with tapered cartridges but I lost it. It's hard to find replacement filters for them at my local welding supply store.
Reply:I was at Fabtech last week, and I spent a lot of time with a 3M engineer talking about respirators.  He had some interesting things, including filters and pressurized systems. Very impressive display, including one option that would cool air (handy if you are welding in Las Vegas in the summer). I did grab a card from the display.  "Get free samples.  Comfortable, low-profile disposable and reusable respirators compatible with certain 3M speedglass welding helmets!  The respiratory hazards of metalworking are real.  Get a free sample of each of these, pick your 6500 size and learn more about respiratory protection for metalworking at:  3m.com/MWRespSample"Click on link, get free stuff (including followup marketing stuff from 3M, sigh...)  Apparently they will give you a 6500 series half mask and filter, plus.  Way cool.  Click away!  Note: they do require a business email address, no go on @yahoo, @hotmail, or @gmail.com addresses.  Samples are intended for industrial workplace safety.Last edited by zipzit; 11-23-2016 at 12:37 PM.
Reply:Yeah I started using a respirator every day now,  I use a 3M with the 2097 pink filters,  I used to have a cough that would develop after a few days of MIG welding.....  And I don't want to mess up my lungs, http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Seeing as there's a sticky already I might as well reply here instead of making my own thread. Got a question about the 3M 2097 pancake filters. I've been using them for about a month now on a 7502 respirator but only about 1 week into use I already start to smell the familiar welding fumes I work around. I also work around (not with) freshly painted parts and although initially the filters blocked out all paint odours, again after that one to one and a half week period of opening a filter package I can once again detect paint. Is it the filter? Is it the way I am wearing the respirator itself? I wear the respirator under a helmet almost all day (~6 hrs a day). Maybe that additional pressure of the helmet is somehow interfering with how it seals on my face? *shurg* confused:. A dead giveaway is that telltale hoarse throat by the end of the day which usually does not occur at all if everything is functioning as it should be. So my question is, what exactly is the "life expectancy" of these filters anyway? I don't mind shelling out for new ones every week as they're relatively cheap at my local supplier but it seems odd that their effectiveness is so short. At least in my experience. I've heard anecdotal evidence of guys not changing their filters for months without issues.Oh yes, welding plain old steel all day. No galvanized, no stainless. The respirator itself is a piece of art really, comfortable to wear for hours at a time, day after day
Reply:I switch them out when I start to smell the fumes again. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23I switch them out when I start to smell the fumes again.
Reply:Originally Posted by Grand dadAfter how long does that occur in your case usually and what kind of conditions are you welding under? Mind you I'm in a closed shop with mig fumes for my work day, no outside ventilation to speak of save for an exhaust at the ceiling of a tall building. I change mine too, after smelling/feeling fumes but like I mentioned they tend to wear out rather quickly (if that's what is indeed happening). I tend to feel the harshness of the smoke a lot quicker than I can smell it.
Reply:Grandad:A filter like the 2097 has a little bit of activated carbon in it to kill off the smells from small amounts of chemicals you might encounter.  This is referred to as "nuisance odor" in the respirator business. These are not approved for heavy chemical exposure as there is not enough carbon in them for that.  They are only meant to take out smells and chemicals in very small amounts (below hazardous levels - thus the "nuisance" qualifier).  One key characteristic of activated carbon is that it absorbs pretty much ANY vapor.  One of the things you are always fighting against is water vapor.  Yes, carbon loves water vapor, and of course it is everywhere.  Once the carbon has absorbed as much of all vapors as it can, it no longer really absorbs anything.  It doesn't matter if that vapor is paint solvents or H2O or any combination of anything/everything.Now the other part of the equation is the particulate filter.  That is what a filter like the one you list is NIOSH approved for. It removes particles from the air you are breathing - 99.97% of them or greater for this filter (P100 rated).  As a particle filter fills up, it gets harder to breathe through.  So you have 2 very different failure modes here.  When the carbon is used up, you will smell those odors you talk about.  When the particle filter is used up, it will be very hard to breathe through.  You are apparently seeing the carbon get used up well before the filter plugs up, in your case.  So you are still protected against the particles in the air, but you are not getting the benefit of the "nuisance odor" removal anymore at that point.Options:1. Replace as you are doing.  You get the full benefit of all those features this way.2. Keep the filters (or the whole mask + filters) in a sealed plastic bag to minimize water vapor exposure when not in use (may extend life, depending on how humid it is in your area). Dry off the mask first, if wet.  Frankly this is always good practice, especially with any carbon-containing product. It should help the carbon last longer, especially if you are in a humid region.3. Keep using it until the filter is hard to breathe through, even though you can smell the stuff getting past the used-up carbon. This could be quite a while, and you may not like that.4. Switch to a full stacked set with separate full-sized carbon cartridges and particle filters.  Much higher capacity so they will last a lot longer, but also a heavier and bulkier.This all assumes that once you replace the filter, the problem goes away for the 1-1.5 weeks you noted.  If that is not true, then you may have a different issue.  Also, if you do have a real chemical hazard that is beyond nuisance, then you may not be using the right filter for your application.Edit: I re-read your post and you mention throat irritation.  That may very well be ozone generated from the arc.  The carbon will help with that, until it is used up.  Hope this helps.-DaveLast edited by davec; 12-16-2016 at 11:34 PM.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:to Option 1 and 2 - Yessir that's what I have been doing. After use I store my filters in a ziplock bag (and mask in a different bag) until the next work day.You are apparently seeing the carbon get used up well before the filter plugs up, in your case.
Reply:I'll keep trying out different things until I find what works for my situation.
Reply:Originally Posted by Shockwavecsoutdoort:Yes I just purchased the lpr-100. I am a weekend welder with limited experience. I think it is fantastic: - For one you are getting a respirator from a company that produces welders. This is a huge deal for liability and safety concerns. I feel like all of the potential research of mask protection (that would still leave you wondering) is non-existent. - It fits under my mask without a problem. - It's very easy to breath through. I cannot stress that enough.  - The filters are cheap enough. the "3m 7502" costs the same price but doesnt come with filters. If you break that down on price... the LPR-100 is actually $15. The filters are $10. Yes, a bit excessive for the filters. My 3M R95 mask is about $5 a pair. I would rather use the LPR-100 respirator for EVERYTHING. It's much more comfortable and convenient than my 3M R95 mask. It doesn't get in the way like larger masks. I just have to take it off and switch to my larger mask when not welding to ensure I get a good life out of the $10 filters. It's hard though. welding...grinding...welding...grinding...etc. It is a bit of a toss up if you are trying to save the filters and save your time of switching back and forth.