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I will need to replace the flex pipe section of my car exhaust soon.I have at my disposal a 200 amp stick and tig machine (no pedal control.)Very little experience using the tig on steel but have used it on alum.Lots more time on the stick so I tend to lean towards that.Exhaust pipe is thin, obviously, can it be done with stick?I have 1/16th 6013 rod.I'll be welding new flex to old pipe. it might be stainless, I don't know but looks like stainless as its isn't as rusty as the welds or hangers.i've been testing with short sections of new pipe but blowing holes, what amps can I use for stick.
Reply:As for heat settings, all machines are different. Don't go by the numbers, practice on same wall thickness material until you get what you want. I usually add a sleeve inside at the joint. That should help, especially if its a poor fit up. Mig would probably be easier, but you still need to keep practicing.
Reply:If I had to choose between 6013 and tig, I would go with tig at 40-50 amps depending on what the actual thickness is. Use a shorty cap if you are welding it in place where space is an issue. If you can weld aluminum without a foot pedal, I don’t think you will have much problem tig welding exhaust tube. As already said: practice, practice, practice.
Reply:I use brazing and a torch for exhaust work.Dave
Originally Posted by jonesg
I will need to replace the flex pipe section of my car exhaust soon.I have at my disposal a 200 amp stick and tig machine (no pedal control.)Very little experience using the tig on steel but have used it on alum.Lots more time on the stick so I tend to lean towards that.Exhaust pipe is thin, obviously, can it be done with stick?I have 1/16th 6013 rod.I'll be welding new flex to old pipe. it might be stainless, I don't know but looks like stainless as its isn't as rusty as the welds or hangers.i've been testing with short sections of new pipe but blowing holes, what amps can I use for stick.
Reply:even tho i weld, i prefer to clamp exhaust when i can
Reply:I mig weld and eliminate a lot of clamps and fittings.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:The exhaust on my truck right now is stick welded. It depends on your skill level. I regularly weld thin metal with my stick machine. I haven't turned my MIG on in probably 1-1/2 years.If you're a decent welder, I suggest you practice like crazy on some 18 gauge steel pipe.I Use a 6010 (or 6011 if its a AC only machine) and usea shallower than normal rod angle (lay the rod farther over on its side), and travel fast. 7014 and 6013 are good choices, too. I use the 6011s a lot because I always have then handy. 6013 is lower penetration. If you get a consistent travel speed (no pausing) and the heat set right, you can make some BEAUTIFUL welds. I've had some that looked like a machine did it... also had some that look and a child did them... one that just drink a pot of coffee.You MUST HAVE a good fit up in the joint for it to go well. Bad fitup and it'll look like you welded it with your feet. The pipe you're actually going to be welding should be 16 gauge. Don't practice on 16 gauge. Seriously, use 18 gauge. It's still weldable and if you can successfully weld 18 gauge, 16 gauge seems easy. More important if you're welding under the car or whatever. Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:Oh, shoot... you said you can do TIG, too! TIG weld it!You earn bonus points if you stick weld it (successfully), though. 6013, 6010, 6011, 7014). You need to practice, though!IF this is NOT a performance exhaust, I'd sleeve it with another piece of exhaust pipe. Use an off cut from the pipe you're working with. Cut a small section out of the cut off piece so you can fit it in the exhaust pipe.If it is, I would avoid adding a sleeve. It'll add resistance... then again, a lot of people run too large of an exhaust on their engine and actually LOSE performance, sooo... I dunno.Good luck!Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
I use brazing and a torch for exhaust work.Dave
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
Oh, shoot... you said you can do TIG, too! TIG weld it!You earn bonus points if you stick weld it (successfully), though. 6013, 6010, 6011, 7014). You need to practice, though!IF this is NOT a performance exhaust, I'd sleeve it with another piece of exhaust pipe. Use an off cut from the pipe you're working with. Cut a small section out of the cut off piece so you can fit it in the exhaust pipe.If it is, I would avoid adding a sleeve. It'll add resistance... then again, a lot of people run too large of an exhaust on their engine and actually LOSE performance, sooo... I dunno.Good luck!Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:Be careful with torch. Lot to catch fire on the inside and torch puts off a lot of heat. Use a sheet metal heat dam. Do not want to start a fire in or under the car.
Reply:Brazing exhausts or using oxy/acet or propane under a vehicle would be the absolute last process to consider using. Most people that work with exhausts use mig with thin wire or tig. And for good reason. Stick and torch are used by those that aren't set up for the mig or tig. Now being polite here, I would definitely take the advice of a farmer on matters of agriculture, environment protection and animal husbandry.
Reply:
Originally Posted by 123weld
even tho i weld, i prefer to clamp exhaust when i can
Reply:
Originally Posted by Woznme
Brazing exhausts or using oxy/acet or propane under a vehicle would be the absolute last process to consider using. Most people that work with exhausts use mig with thin wire or tig. And for good reason. Stick and torch are used by those that aren't set up for the mig or tig. Now being polite here, I would definitely take the advice of a farmer on matters of agriculture, environment protection and animal husbandry.
Reply:If yours is staino like the pic I definitely wouldn't braze it. Tig is the way to go or mig if you know how.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jonesg
I passed inspection this morning so I have 12 months to fix it, going to town later to grab some exhaust couple sections to practice on.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Woznme
If yours is staino like the pic I definitely wouldn't braze it. Tig is the way to go or mig if you know how.
Reply:Years ago I used to fabricate custom exhaust systems. Back then we used oxy-acetylene torches and steel welding rod (or uncoated coat hangers if we were in a bind). Nowadays I lean more towards a smaller MIG for exhaust work.There is no way I'd choose arc welding (stick) for thin exhaust tubing, but TIG would definitely be an option. If I tried arc welding that thin material I would probably have some major blowouts. Even with MIG, sometimes I'll mig 1/2" or so, let it cool, and then continue.52Ford - I'm envious of your skills!Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:
Originally Posted by scsmith42
Years ago I used to fabricate custom exhaust systems. Back then we used oxy-acetylene torches and steel welding rod (or uncoated coat hangers if we were in a bind). Nowadays I lean more towards a smaller MIG for exhaust work.There is no way I'd choose arc welding (stick) for thin exhaust tubing, but TIG would definitely be an option. If I tried arc welding that thin material I would probably have some major blowouts. Even with MIG, sometimes I'll mig 1/2" or so, let it cool, and then continue.52Ford - I'm envious of your skills!
Reply:I found brazing does a good job. I have used torch welding with E70S-6. Both work great.Brazing take less heat from torch. Dave
Originally Posted by jonesg
my neighbor is a farmer, he advises brazing with a torch, not sure exactly what torch or rod he was referring to.I have a mapp torch and have done water plumbing with silver solder. Didn't think silver solder brazing would take the heat. I saw some specialty rods at muggyweld dot com, $30 per rod, darn thats pricey stuff.i'll pick up some practice tubing tuesday and see what I can do with the various approaches.
Reply:torch is a generic term, I don't have oxy or acetylene, I have a yellow map torch.I also have stick and tig here.
Reply:
Originally Posted by scsmith42
Years ago I used to fabricate custom exhaust systems. Back then we used oxy-acetylene torches and steel welding rod (or uncoated coat hangers if we were in a bind). Nowadays I lean more towards a smaller MIG for exhaust work.There is no way I'd choose arc welding (stick) for thin exhaust tubing, but TIG would definitely be an option. If I tried arc welding that thin material I would probably have some major blowouts. Even with MIG, sometimes I'll mig 1/2" or so, let it cool, and then continue.52Ford - I'm envious of your skills!
Reply:Tig will work as a torch. I like torch as do not need to wear a leather coat and #5 lens.Dave
Originally Posted by jonesg
torch is a generic term, I don't have oxy or acetylene, I have a yellow map torch.I also have stick and tig here.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jonesg
torch is a generic term, I don't have oxy or acetylene, I have a yellow map torch.I also have stick and tig here.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Not around here. You say you have a torch it better damn well be a oxy-acetylene torch !!!!!!! Joking. FYI, Map Pro gas is not Mapp gas. Map-Pro gas is 136° hotter than propane so barely even measurable difference. Your not going to braze with air/map-pro torch or is it Oxy/map-pro
Originally Posted by jonesg
OK but i'm trying to solve the problem with my tig welds for now.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jonesg
OK but i'm trying to solve the problem with my tig welds for now.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Oh wow. Yes you are. You are not going to weld the flex itself to the pipe. Can you not just buy the proper part for it. You are asking for big headache with end result worse than you started with.Don't mean to be so negative but that is not happening especially with zero welding skills. They do not weld that kind of flex. It is crimped into proper ends then those are welded.
Reply:It is highly unlikely that you will successfully weld flex pipe, unless you TIG braze it (brass / bronze based filler rod - not steel). The reason why is that flex pipe is made from really, really thin steel, versus exhaust tubing which is usually 14 or 16 gauge. Trying to weld two different thicknesses of relatively thin metal is a challenge for even an experienced welder.Brazing flex pipe can work because you don't have to get the base metal hot enough to melt, however you still have to pay close attention to where your heat is going from your TIG torch.Usually flex pipe is clamped, and regular gauge exhaust tubing can be welded with TIG.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:
Originally Posted by scsmith42
It is highly unlikely that you will successfully weld flex pipe, unless you TIG braze it (brass / bronze based filler rod - not steel). The reason why is that flex pipe is made from really, really thin steel, versus exhaust tubing which is usually 14 or 16 gauge. Trying to weld two different thicknesses of relatively thin metal is a challenge for even an experienced welder.Brazing flex pipe can work because you don't have to get the base metal hot enough to melt, however you still have to pay close attention to where your heat is going from your TIG torch.Usually flex pipe is clamped, and regular gauge exhaust tubing can be welded with TIG.
Reply:I was starting to get some semi decent lap joints and my welder blew up.Story of my life...ordering an everlast 161STH.
Reply:It doesn't matter even if you could weld the flex it will not work welded. The flex will immediately break away strand by strand from fatigue really fast. Do not waste your time with trying to fix that this way.If you search aftermarket you may find a assembly that will replace that for WAY less than Volvo wants for it. Your going to need a proper fix for this and welding is not it.What is the Year and Model of the car ?
Reply:its a 2004 volvo V70 AWD turbo.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jonesg
its a 2004 volvo V70 AWD turbo.
Reply:good find but both say "{We currently do not ship this catalytic converter to California, Colorado, New York, or Maine}"i live in Maine.I've looked at them before but can't resolve the contradiction."Notes: EPA -- with Federal/California Emissions System; Not legal for sale or use in California and other CARB-compliant states. Legal in New York and Maine on EPA Federal Emission Equipped Vehicles only. Consult the aftermarket converter regulations in your state for details.; Exhaust Gasket is Recommended; Includes Front and Rear Gasket; Ultra Direct Fit Type"
Reply:Then cut out the flex pipe and replace it properly. They come in many lengths and diameters.https://www.amazon.com/Remarkable-Po...21991729&psc=1
Reply:Thanks for the help, I appreciate your patience.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Not around here. You say you have a torch it better damn well be a oxy-acetylene torch !!!!!!! Joking. FYI, Map Pro gas is not Mapp gas. Map-Pro gas is 136° hotter than propane so barely even measurable difference. Your not going to braze with air/map-pro torch or is it Oxy/map-pro
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
EDIT: Wrong thread... LOL thought this was the one about the boat gas tank.
I HAVE brazed with a MAP-Pro torch and 3/32" flux coated bronze rods. I'm fairly certain I was running propane instead of MAP-Pro, too. This torch: https://www.acehardware.com/departme...ganic-shoppingThese rods: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lincoln-Ele...?user=shoppingFuel tank was for a Wheel Horse with an H60 Tecumseh. Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
EDIT: Wrong thread... LOL thought this was the one about the boat gas tank.
I HAVE brazed with a MAP-Pro torch and 3/32" flux coated bronze rods. I'm fairly certain I was running propane instead of MAP-Pro, too. This torch: https://www.acehardware.com/departme...ganic-shoppingThese rods: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lincoln-Ele...?user=shoppingFuel tank was for a Wheel Horse with an H60 Tecumseh. Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by 123weld
even tho i weld, i prefer to clamp exhaust when i can
Reply:In order to clamp in a replacement flex pipe assembly you would need to use two sleeve couplings which means four separate clamps on them. That would be quite a mess and too many opportunities for leakage as well as it may not physically have room for a bunch of clamps.This job requires either a complete new assembly or a flex pipe assembly to cut out what is there then weld in the new flex pipe assembly. I can't even imagine if a muffler shop didn't weld in anything what a mess those installations would be although most systems replaced are usually sub assemblies and may actually use a clamp to connect one to the next but not at every pipe and component in the system or those sub assemblies.Don't be a hack. Lol. Supposed to be welders and fabricators here and suggesting one to use couplers/clamps on it. Oh my. This job requires removal of head pipe and cut out the flex and weld in a new one. Simple piece of cake once you get it out and on the table.Be certain to mark the pipe at both ends of the cut so you can clock the inlet perfectly back like original.Cut that out,
Weld this in,
Last edited by danielplace; 4 Days Ago at 01:15 PM.
Reply:Thats what I'm probably going have to do, theres very little straight pipe at either end of the flex section to clamp on to.Theres only one inch at the top section between the flex and the front O2 sensor bung.I'll be ordering a mig welder later today, the Yeswelder MIG 205DS.I plan to build a proper jig on the bench before cutting anything, mount at both ends to keep the angles correct.
Reply:Hey,,, good for you to buy a new machine. I am not sure about the models but the whole world is now made from sheet and I would be lost without the mig. I am a career welder and outright stick frickin expert but I could just about do without it if I had to in favor for a 180 class mig. I had ran out and stocked common clamps several years ago and still have most of them. So rare for me to clamp. I dont have bend or expander and everything is so 1 off and mostly repair I just make it up and can do a weld. Chop a lot of those bolt up flanges right out on old junk and stick a pipe in and another bonus is that often welded can change a direction a bit the way splices just cant, get it butted up close enough to weld and its a done deal and often simply saw off sections, even saw out mufflers and simply butt in replacement. Never leak, never come loose on ruff roads.Last edited by Sberry; 3 Days Ago at 12:45 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Mig will be here in 7 days, I just got my inspection sticker so I have 12 months to practice, i'm scheduled for cancer surgery on my kidney in October so not in any rush to get into this project until I recover, that could easily be early next spring.
Reply:That's serious surgery. I pray that all goes well and a speedy recovery.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Woznme
That's serious surgery. I pray that all goes well and a speedy recovery.
Reply:Praying all goes well for you and they get you fixed up. Wishing you a long life yet my friend. |
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发表于 2022-9-16 15:52:18