How many inches of weld per roll of wire?

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So speaking of the licncoln 71 elite outer shield, how many inches or feet of weld could I expect to get from one roll of .045 wire? Assuming I'm running single pass 5/16 filet welds Im trying to calculate how many rolls I'll need for a large upcoming job. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Reply:I calculated I'll need to do 6,500  ft of 5/16 filet weldThat's crazy, over a mile

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Reply:The manufacturers typically put pounds or percentage of wire used.I calculated the amount of weld then weight weld. Then use the percentage given.  Do what I did made chart with 3/16, 1/4" , 3/8" , 1/2" & 3/4" filet welds.Dave

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

So speaking of the licncoln 71 elite outer shield, how many inches or feet of weld could I expect to get from one roll of .045 wire? Assuming I'm running single pass 5/16 filet welds Im trying to calculate how many rolls I'll need for a large upcoming job. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:I bet Dave has a calculator handy for that.  There is even time calc for it.   Real good jobber/supplier could help. Might be time for another machine or 2?  These kind of things interest me a little,,, details available?   Seems I saw something from Lincoln had chart for material and time???Last edited by Sberry; 18 Hours Ago at 09:32 AM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I'm pricing a large job, it's a bunch of w10x12 I- beams fabricated, almost 800 parts need to be made with about 100 inches of weld eachSent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:The wire sold by pound.This may help for 5/16 filet welded 0.6 inch³ per foot of welded.Weight of steel per 1³: is 0.2833 pound. So your weld weight is 0.6 x 0.2833 =0.16998 pound per foot of weld. But there was and fluxcore is about 85% metal the rest is slag. Best to say 70% for wire0.16998 pound ÷ 70%= amount of wire need for the job is per foot of welded need is 0.24 pounds.So your can with 30 pound roll will welded 125 feet.Typically I would get more than 125 feet but for pricing it safer.Dave

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I calculated I'll need to do 6,500  ft of 5/16 filet weldThat's crazy, over a mile

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Reply:In the shop then?   I dont remember what power supply you had?  From the line and machines?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I'll definitely be getting at least one more welder, if not 2 to get the job doneI have the esab mm280Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Could simply figure it a 4 ft # for estimation then.   n 1500, maybe 1600#  This might be tempting to look at motor drive?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:So I would need 52 rolls of wire, only $9,500 not bad Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Reply:

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I calculated I'll need to do 6,500  ft of 5/16 filet weldThat's crazy, over a mile

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Reply:

Originally Posted by Oscar

Are you using a 33lb spool, or 60lb coil?
Reply:Sounds like a lot if wire need. 8 foot of welded timed 800 parts 6,400 feet x 0.24 pounds or 1,536 pounds of wire need, 51 rolls need if using 30 pound rolls Dave

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I'm pricing a large job, it's a bunch of w10x12 I- beams fabricated, almost 800 parts need to be made with about 100 inches of weld eachSent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:But then again I've never welded this much before, if there's  a better way, or better equipment to get it done, I'm all ears, I was thinking of buying another 300amp mig welder and having 2 guys welding full time, anything wrong with that idea?Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Reply:Might be better to have a guy doing all the cutting fit up and another guy welding continuously? Production line style.Airco Auto-Pak 130Forney 235AC/DC
Reply:

Originally Posted by Roert42

Might be better to have a guy doing all the cutting fit up and another guy welding continuously? Production line style.
Reply:Might be able to work 1 helper for 2 machines too.   Have Dave help u calc the time too.   I know you are expert builder but this is about production and often 2 different things, the handling is going to be as big a deal as the welding.  What line power do you have?  This can effect the new machine as power supply and equipment for 3 ph can be had.  Scott V  has used all this stuff and could guide to an economical model inverter.  Do you do the cutting or they come ready?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:The 10 large for the wire doesnt sound like a terrible deal. I dont know anything about the wire at all, what kind of current range we gonna need on the top end, this obviously be flat so a guy can turner up.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:a couple helpers for sure.  Some of this might depend on the shop, is there room to stage 2 stations and keep weld continious while fitting and removing finished pieces?  You need to do the rest of the work while the welding is going on.   The work u do now has production aspect but this might be a little different with so much material.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Phil, if you are buying a new welder, I would consider the new Millermatic 355 if you don't go with a separate power supply and a feeder. I love the display on that welder. Having pulse will give you the ability to run metal core wires out of position. If your on a budget, you can probably find the older 350P machines on the cheap. But on the other hand an XMT350 with a separate feeder will give you more flexibility (i.e., you can do stuff like carbon arc gouging with it), but will run you more money I think.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:According to Lincoln, it's a 33lb spool instead of 30lb, and if you use their 87% efficiency it comes out to ~39 rolls, not 52 (168 linear feet of weld per 33lb spool).  Might want a few extra rolls of course, but I don't think Lincoln's specs/stats are off, seeing as how they are a premier supplier of filler metal.  Is that the only wire that is spec'd out to use?  Can you switch to a  metal-core wire?  You can get near 97% efficiency, and the deposition rate is approx 16 lb/hr vs 11.4 lb/hr of the OuterShield Elite.  35 rolls metal-core vs 39 of Outershield Elite, 70 hrs of welding with metal core vs 101 hours with OuterShield Elite.  No post-welding slag removal, just small silica islands here and there.  The main drawback is metal-core is flat/horizontal only, unless you have a pulsed-spray capable power source to be able to go out-of-position.

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Reply:Well if I land this job, I will be able to buy whatever machine I want Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Reply:I did some jobs last couple weeks, as we got started early on we said,,, we gotta stop right here and work this out we got to far to go to be doing fixes and not have it right and the stop paid off 5x with ) finiosh when were were done.  I really watch this when I send any kind of common labor because they wont even back the truck up close, will carry every piece.  Takes 5 minutes to toss them on or an hour.  They are oblivious to this.   I often get back far enopugh people dont see me wqatching so to speak and then I come back and move the tables or the trucks or both, or the cords, hang up cords and lines.     Way back I hired on and the point was to spruce it upo and make it glide a little, on the second day I got the gang stopped moving the machines and benches around.  The guy is about to blow a gasket and I just walk to my lunchbox,,, he starts after me,,,, I said simply,,, you hired someone to fix this and now you wanna keep limping on,,,, my work is done here.  We finally come to a deal but sheet, shut down for a day and double the job next 4 weeks.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I went to one this spring, the help had it right and told me when we went in to the back,,, I am trying to tell my boss.    I look around, he is right.  I suggest a couple things to the boss who is a great guy but college boy manager with 20 yrs experience and he look me straight in the eye before I can even finish about stopping the bleeding for cheap and free how they are aware and they know the inventory is depleting but they cot a plan and they gonna sort this and that, they know despite the obvious hemorrhage on the floor.    v   Went to another wanted some opinion but they got all the answers before we get there.  It had been sold and they kept the old owners as managers which is the main problem they had as it was.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by Oscar

According to Lincoln, it's a 33lb spool instead of 30lb, and if you use their 87% efficiency it comes out to ~39 rolls, not 52 (168 linear feet of weld per 33lb spool).  Might want a few extra rolls of course, but I don't think Lincoln's specs/stats are off, seeing as how they are a premier supplier of filler metal.  Is that the only wire that is spec'd out to use?  Can you switch to a  metal-core wire?  You can get near 97% efficiency, and the deposition rate is approx 16 lb/hr vs 11.4 lb/hr of the OuterShield Elite.  35 rolls metal-core vs 39 of Outershield Elite, 70 hrs of welding with metal core vs 101 hours with OuterShield Elite.  No post-welding slag removal, just small silica islands here and there.  The main drawback is metal-core is flat/horizontal only, unless you have a pulsed-spray capable power source to be able to go out-of-position.So,,, this is what I really do more than welding per sa,,, but obviously cant do this faster than the weld but could do most o0f the other work along side given there was adequate space and some electricity.   I remember some pics but not the details to the shop, my own is geared could have 1.2 a dozen men to work in the morning, have, even had them in all different trades at the same time on projects.  Bathroom, washup, painting, all not a thing.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I don't have to use any specific wire, I can use whatever I want, if metal cored is the way to go, for over 6000 ft of weld, I'll go with that.Could I get a power source and run 2 feeders off it? Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:They always use one power source per feed. If try the voltage will very to much. Dave

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I don't have to use any specific wire, I can use whatever I want, if metal cored is the way to go, for over 6000 ft of weld, I'll go with that.Could I get a power source and run 2 feeders off it? Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:Oscar did a great job on that, I agree, change wire.  That is significant.  I agree this is a good place to buy a machine.  2 from 1, not really.  If you wanted to start a new career as electrical engineer could probably do that.     But Louie brought up 2 good points and I might even think about this.    Is that depo rate discounted for the operator?      If we figure 10# an hour we are looking at realistically 3 weeks welding for 1 guy.   How fast does this have to be done?  I was gonna say with small crew as a hip shot guess when it first came up at a month for bid purpose.  I know you have a lot of bid experience.    But think about this.  Does the 280 run  this?  How much easier would it be for 1 operator, maybe even some trading off to keep it going along, 2 or 3 men with the machine tootin,,, this is only a hundred hours not a 1000> .  2 or 3 weeks for Moto with the stinger in his hand  and to telll the truth might even set thgis up to do the most with the least, jump on it a couple hrs for rellief, some minor second shift and I bet you get it done BEFORE all the fuggin around tryin g to get 4 men to work at once unless you already employ them,,,, forget all that **** and see if you utilize what you gotr to its potential.     No point in buying buying race car to go 20 minutes to grocery.   Put another 100 hrs on a machine you already own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by Sberry

Might be able to work 1 helper for 2 machines too.   Have Dave help u calc the time too.   I know you are expert builder but this is about production and often 2 different things, the handling is going to be as big a deal as the welding.  What line power do you have?  This can effect the new machine as power supply and equipment for 3 ph can be had.  Scott V  has used all this stuff and could guide to an economical model inverter.  Do you do the cutting or they come ready?
Reply:That just aint that much welding, moto turns out 1/2 that in a week if it was even 1/2 the numbers Oscar posted.  If you can make money throwing money at it bid it with that in mind then take and shave huge piece and time from production.      I mean,,, how much would it take with a common 250 and 045?  Going to save 6 grand in labor over 3 weeks?  If you were tring to do it with a 210 you would pay for a new 250 in a week but getting all set up with new stuff for this and additional men adds huge to cost at direct expense to profit.   What are the parameters for the wire Oscar suggested?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Single phase power works great.It is bummer if have three phase welder and single phase power. Even when I had I purchased single phase equipment I could get better price used. Just try selling 3 phase equipment first question is it single or three.It also makes finding a new location simpler too. Today in retirement it paid off no converter need. Dave

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

Single phase power unfortunately Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:Scott had an import inverter he looked at, some insane output from 50A I think, north of 400.  Had a warranty on it, forget the cost but it was practical even if you simply expect to last the 3 years.      Dave includes some good stuff, he says single used being cheaper and I was gonna disagree with that untill I think about the 300 synchro and the PH etc for sale for 500 with a bunch of fixins.   I would be inclined to get thru this in a practical fashion, its easy to buy greater later and will find out if this type of thing is for you before investing heavily.   I do understand  that the rest of your work could benifit,,, maybe and nothing wrong with being ready to pull the trigger in a time of need.Last edited by Sberry; 15 Hours Ago at 12:14 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I have done this, I even ask the customer prior to price.  Do you mind if I send the truck by to blast a test spot and I might even buy a roll of wire.  Believe it or not,,, used to, not gospel,,, as best I recall some of ther wires even listed 6011 for tack up.   Would add a step to prep but might not be a deal either.   Take couple pieces foor long, weld passes over them, see how long it takes and double that time for actual.     Now, if you do this and make a fistfull a half a dozen 100 dollar gift cards to the consultands could be expensed and well spent.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I have long term shop, I get to see what the dust settles on after the fact but when I did some jobs and STILL do to some extent.  We paint 10 semi trailers with 2  100 ft air hoses and 7 1/2 or maybe even a 5 comp.  I still got the hoses, they hang on the wall now but it wasnt worth the pipe at the time I needed to do it etc so to speak. Even if it aint the ultimate t6hing nothing like looking a little ahead for a bargain can do what u need to do and if you are a buy it right type of guy its sold easily after.    I know a gal,,, b uys a motorhome to go on long summer vacation, took a girlfriend to share some gas and she sells it for 10 large more than she pay for it.   Brand X on here a poster child for this.  Sometimes he improves marginally but on occasinally by multiples as in this last case even including some expense got a machine in beautiful shape with 3 or 4x the cost before he ever fires it up.  Be a good time and place to add good used to the fleet on a bit of spec.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I live at the end of a long rural. There isnt any real load. But its long and its single. I have heavy service, close to tranny, its solid so I can buy a piece if I had to and I prolly should have made 3 ph but by the time I could fool with all of that for lots of reasons I had alreadly learned to cope mostly from a 50 outlet for welding.  I do have a synch but for this point I dont use it, I can, I just dont.   I am all position guy so 1 wire 1 gas shop, the 250 is my big machiune but do 90% with a 180 or DC buzzer lately.   Where the lower input really shines is with limited service, a sturdy 200 could support several and work fine. Other equipment has limitations for sure.  Mainly shear/brake/punch/old ironworker.   In this case again room, might even batch this job vs rotation if fitup was clamp ready, tack up 20 a time, weld them out.Last edited by Sberry; 15 Hours Ago at 12:46 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I did a lot of painting with 2hp air compressor but set up for max 100 psi. I figured for 1 gallon of paint would coat 250 square feet. My father did by ton I forget number but we switched from structural sections to press form steel. He also did welding the same way number of hours per ton and rod the same way. It work too. Dave

Originally Posted by Sberry

I have long term shop, I get to see what the dust settles on after the fact but when I did some jobs and STILL do to some extent.  We paint 10 semi trailers with 2  100 ft air hoses and 7 1/2 or maybe even a 5 comp.  I still got the hoses, they hang on the wall now but it wasnt worth the pipe at the time I needed to do it etc so to speak. Even if it aint the ultimate t6hing nothing like looking a little ahead for a bargain can do what u need to do and if you are a buy it right type of guy its sold easily after.    I know a gal,,, b uys a motorhome to go on long summer vacation, took a girlfriend to share some gas and she sells it for 10 large more than she pay for it.   Brand X on here a poster child for this.  Sometimes he improves marginally but on occasinally by multiples as in this last case even including some expense got a machine in beautiful shape with 3 or 4x the cost before he ever fires it up.  Be a good time and place to add good used to the fleet on a bit of spec.
Reply:Yers, with consistancy repeats most heavy steel can be bid by/with ton.  Metalman bids some sophisticated stuff but this is always kind of scary when you stray from the regular path a bit.   Sounds like 2 men could pick them up.  I run a bit more math and a new machine certainly isnt a deal breaker.  Say a new unit added 10$ to it and hourly paid labor with helper   If it saved 10 mins a unit.  If you have men waiting on the welder it doubles, we did a job where we wanted to weld it out as we went, fitter simply wait a few minutes and all of a sudden switch from the proto type welder 180 to bigger wire and 250 and half the time and half the gas and wire cost 1.2 as much.   Even though the actual dollar cost was low and has some low cost help took a couple days off a month job even on light material.  A hundred direct cost and another couple hun worth of time would have been wait.Last edited by Sberry; 14 Hours Ago at 01:32 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I do aot of sophisticated stuff , but not much structural steel, it'll be an interesting experience just bidding this job, I know you think the welding will only take 3 weeks, and I suppose that might be accurate, but just moving th pieces around in prep for welding and after, would make this job last several months I'm guessing Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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Reply:Ok I'll ask this question, if I had the beams laid out, ready to weld, how long would it take for a guy to make 36" of weld? Sent from my SM-G973U using TapatalkLast edited by MetalMan23; 13 Hours Ago at 01:57 PM.

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Reply:Also, a lot of math here, say there is 2 machines, not we got to make up the juice on 1/2 the units or only 400 and now it cost 20 per on the ones we did. So to save money,,, we got to double that savings to make it pay.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by Sberry

Also, a lot of math here, say there is 2 machines, not we got to make up the juice on 1/2 the units or only 400 and now it cost 20 per on the ones we did. So to save money,,, we got to double that savings to make it pay.
Reply:Am I correct each beam takes almost 2# of wire?  (for estimate) 16# an hour rate  2 beads a beam?  I cant recall now,,, hawww.urkafarms.com
Reply:.25 per foot.   Bout a foot a minute.  Probably be similar to a couple, maybe 3 5/32 lohy in 1/2 or 2/3 the time not including any cleaning.   Here is something else to consider.   Since there is no spec here who spec 5/16?   You cant save it all so any savings is simply the difference.  In my small thing its easier to throw a bit of extra fertilizer on it than it is tio try to calculate the savings.   Same here, some time, somehow I had this figured at 15 mins per unit actual with ideal on time.  I build a lot too heavy early on but a peek at engineer says you only need 1/4 and changes the game a lot, 2 grand wire alone.Last edited by Sberry; 13 Hours Ago at 02:33 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

Ok I'll ask this question, if I had the beams laid out, ready to weld, how long would it take for a guy to make 36" of weld? Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:Even in nuclear restraint work the brackets and straps mostly 1/4 and spec 3/16 weld.   At what amperage?
Reply:

Originally Posted by Oscar

At what amperage?
Reply:Is your weld 36” a straight bead?  Will you need to manipulate the beam?  Will weld position change?  Is there a plan showing the welding?
Reply:

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

I do aot of sophisticated stuff , but not much structural steel, it'll be an interesting experience just bidding this job, I know you think the welding will only take 3 weeks, and I suppose that might be accurate, but just moving th pieces around in prep for welding and after, would make this job last several months I'm guessing Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Reply:If you really want to do the job/$, perhaps look around and see who can process parts before they get to your shops.  Or is there a way to not even touch it after bidding. Fabricated metal does not stack as easily as straight sticks.  Consider that as you bid.  It will take up quite a bit of real estate and time.  What is the finish condition required?  Will you need to mark the beams,  will you mark them with welded symbols?It will be a lot to handle without folk in place to help.  And maintain what you already do.