6011 suddenly loses arc on ac

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No problem on DC+ but arc randomly goes out on ac. I have a tight arc as far as I can tell. Ac/DC Lincoln buzz box. 1/8" rod 90 amps, same thing if I increase it to the 105 tap. Any ideas?
Reply:How old is the rod?  Brand?

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Reply:

Originally Posted by JD1

No problem on DC+ but arc randomly goes out on ac. I have a tight arc as far as I can tell. Ac/DC Lincoln buzz box. 1/8" rod 90 amps, same thing if I increase it to the 105 tap. Any ideas?
Reply:Just practicing, nothing critical. Times per rod....I cut my rods in half because my hands are too shaky to do a full length rod. Burning that half rod, it happens a couple times before the end. But not on DC. Harbor Freight rods probably a few years old. I also have the same brand and vintage in 7018 and they run nice on DC+ as does the 6011. Restarts are tougher for the 6011 on AC. No ground problems, no power supply problems. It's a 6011 issue ONLY on AC. I may have a few Lincoln 6011, I could dig around tomorrow and see. If so I'll try them and see if it's an AC issue or a Harbor Freight issue.Last edited by JD1; 04-04-2022 at 07:10 PM.
Reply:It can a problem with small welders.They have a low ocv. What a problem to is rod that has been opened to air for a long time.  This can be fix by baking the rod above 300° for a few hours. Dave

Originally Posted by JD1

No problem on DC+ but arc randomly goes out on ac. I have a tight arc as far as I can tell. Ac/DC Lincoln buzz box. 1/8" rod 90 amps, same thing if I increase it to the 105 tap. Any ideas?
Reply:Not a small welder. 225 amps Why does it screw up on AC and run fine on DC+ as does 7018, both having been opened to the air for several years.
Reply:Luck Dave

Originally Posted by JD1

Not a small welder. 225 amps Why does it screw up on AC and run fine on DC+ as does 7018, both having been opened to the air for several years.
Reply:Well I think I have an answer!I don’t know.Retired Old GuyHobart 210Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Tombstone Evolution 14” Saw
Reply:If use a Lincoln SA250 or Hobart 213 or 3 phase welder it will happen.But single phase welder it will happen.Dave

Originally Posted by NotaVegetarian

Well I think I have an answer!I don’t know.
Reply:

Originally Posted by smithdoor

It can a problem with small welders.They have a low ocv. What a problem to is rod that has been opened to air for a long time.  This can be fix by baking the rod above 300° for a few hours. Dave
Reply:

Originally Posted by JD1

No problem on DC+ but arc randomly goes out on ac. I have a tight arc as far as I can tell. Ac/DC Lincoln buzz box. 1/8" rod 90 amps, same thing if I increase it to the 105 tap. Any ideas?
Reply:If you have dc no reason to use ACwww.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by JD1

Not a small welder. 225 amps Why does it screw up on AC and run fine on DC+ as does 7018, both having been opened to the air for several years.
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Originally Posted by Sberry

If you have dc no reason to use AC
Reply:You can set that on DC and bust the knob off so he aint tempted to mess with it.  Lots of the worlds best work done with machines dont even have AC on them.  This is another thing that someone read something and it rarely happens but its gonna live on in urban legend so to speak.  I remember about once in 40 years I turn to AC and it might have been on some nickel.   The difference in penetration is negligible and off set by the fact its on AC making that much harder to start with.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by smithdoor

This can be fix by baking the rod above 300° for a few hours.
Reply:I run a Lincoln 225 ac only that my dad bought in 1967.It has no problem running 6011.I too have shaky hands and have no problem running 6011.Most likely it is the rods(I have no idea what) or the operator(again I have no idea what)!Good luck.
Reply:Your machine is AC/DC, Toss the 6011 and get Lincoln 6010 5P or 5P+ and run DC.
Reply:I stumbled across a couple 10 in the shop the other day and ran them next to the 11 on the same job.  I almost forgot the difference from sputtering 11.  I wish my Max would run them.  I think the Esab might.  My neighbor just gave me 50# of 11.  Considering the cost of materials I might peck away and  try to use them up when I can.Last edited by Sberry; 04-05-2022 at 09:32 AM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:JD1,, do you realize that when the machine is set to AC (ALTERNATING current) and an amperage setting like 120 amps, that the amperage (and voltage) constantly goes to ZERO!The voltage reverses itself 60 times per second.  60 times every second!!?? Every time the voltage goes to zero, the amps goes to zero.It is just a phenomenon of the flux on the rod that allows the arc to continue to operate at all.Try welding with a bare piece of steel rod, on AC, then on DC.A good welding machine can keep a bare steel rod welding with DC,, that continuous arc will stop, or never start with AC.So, if the machine is going to weld at all on AC, the flux on the rod is the only thing that causes the arc to continue.If all of a sudden, you can no longer weld on AC,, , either the flux deteriorated, or you changed to a rod that has a different flux.
Reply:The only real reason from operators perspective that AC is even on the machine anymore if you have DC is power.  On AC it will run a big fat rod.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I set it on + when I got it in 84.

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Reply:Somewhere I read why ac is better for some types of rod.But I like DC for all my rod burning. It gives a smooth weld over ac.Dave

Originally Posted by Sberry

The only real reason from operators perspective that AC is even on the machine anymore if you have DC is power.  On AC it will run a big fat rod.
Reply:Maybe the contacts on the AC side of the AC/DC switch are oxidized or corroded due to lack of use.  Try some contact cleaner and see if that helps or just switch it back and forth a few times to work it in.
Reply:The reason has been found. Those who posted that the flux is what maintains the arc on AC and suggested that maybe the flux on the HF rods was not up to par for AC were absolutely correct.I pulled out some Lincoln 6011 and ran it. It was only 3/32 and not 1/8 but it ran fine on AC. No arc dropping at all.As to why I'm using AC instead of DC+, it's just for learning and experience. I don't like it as well as DC but wanted to add to my knowledge base. I'm far more comfortable with mig but sometimes stick is needed and I wanted to brush up on it since my skills there aren't so good.So I got a few things out of all this: I'll only run AC if I have to for some reason and will make sure I'm not using HF rods, I'm getting some 6010 to try since people say it runs nicer than 6011, 3/32 is harder to keep an even bead with than 1/8 unless you're really good, and lastly I need to run 6010 and 7018 every so often to stay in practice for when it's needed.Thank you all for your help!PS. Possibly some can and do run HF 6011 on AC with no trouble. Maybe their machine is slightly different than mine, maybe their batch of flux is slightly different. All I can say is that this is what happened in my situation and what the answer was.

Originally Posted by JD1

The reason has been found. Those who posted that the flux is what maintains the arc on AC and suggested that maybe the flux on the HF rods was not up to par for AC were absolutely correct.I pulled out some Lincoln 6011 and ran it. It was only 3/32 and not 1/8 but it ran fine on AC. No arc dropping at all.As to why I'm using AC instead of DC+, it's just for learning and experience. I don't like it as well as DC but wanted to add to my knowledge base. I'm far more comfortable with mig but sometimes stick is needed and I wanted to brush up on it since my skills there aren't so good.So I got a few things out of all this: I'll only run AC if I have to for some reason and  [1] will make sure I'm not using HF rods,  I'm getting some 6010 to try since people say it runs nicer than 6011, 3/32 is harder to keep an even bead with than 1/8 unless you're really good, and lastly I need to run 6010 and 7018 every so often to stay in practice for when it's needed.Thank you all for your help!PS.[2]Possibly some can and do run HF 6011 on AC with no trouble. Maybe their machine is slightly different than mine, maybe their batch of flux is slightly different. All I can say is that this is what happened in my situation and what the answer was.
Reply:I once got a #10 box of "Welders Choice" 1/8" E6011 welding rods from MSCDirect , and it was awful. It gave off a smell of burning leaves/cigar smoldering in ashtray. The rods with the flux were as thick as 1/8" e6013, and with just as much slag. They would often sputter, and go out all the time, even with a few extra amps. I was running them on an older Dayton 250 ac/dc machine. Normally I run Lincoln, or hobart  6011 on everything, and they work fine. Same machine with linconln E6011 no problem. Dunno, some welding rods just don't work well on some machines. Buy some new stuff, and move on, life's too short, and there's so much left to weld.Good LuckAirco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
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Originally Posted by Oldiron2

[Did you try the saltwater trick with the HF 6011 yet? It's easy and you might find it interesting. Potasium Chloride also works [and sometimes is used as a sodium chloride substitute in water softeners when septic systems are involved (to prevent sodium buildup in leach fields.)]
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Originally Posted by albrightree

I once got a #10 box of "Welders Choice" 1/8" E6011 welding rods from MSCDirect , and it was awful. It gave off a smell of burning leaves/cigar smoldering in ashtray. The rods with the flux were as thick as 1/8" e6013, and with just as much slag. They would often sputter, and go out all the time, even with a few extra amps. I was running them on an older Dayton 250 ac/dc machine. Normally I run Lincoln, or hobart  6011 on everything, and they work fine. Same machine with linconln E6011 no problem. Dunno, some welding rods just don't work well on some machines. Buy some new stuff, and move on, life's too short, and there's so much left to weld.Good Luck