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Hello,I'm new to welding, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I'm willing to read almost anything you'd point me to.I inherited my welder. It's an Airco 225Amp MSM Stinger II (picture attached).It should have had a user manual with it, but I never found one. I tried searching online without success for an uploaded one or one available for purchase.It's got a 20% duty cycle, I'd assume at 225amps. So how would I determine the duty cycle of the other amperage settings? I'd try a linear scale, but at some point on the amperage scale, it's 100% duty cycle even with a lower amperage than what 100% duty cycle starts at.Thanks!PS: I know it's old and inefficient. I'm a student so I can't just run to the store and buy something decent. I also like it. It works and is made to be very reliable.PPS: I do have PPE.
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Reply:Hi,Welcome to welding and to the forum.The relationship between duty cycle and current is not linear. Try this:A = (S/I)2 x Rwhere:A = adjusted duty cycle at desired welding current (%)S = specified current at rated duty cycle (amps)I = desired (or actual) welding current (amps)R = factory rated duty cycle (i.e. at current S) (%)The duty cycle at 100 amps is = (225/100)2 x 20 = 2.252 x 20 = 100%The duty cycle at 150 amps is = (225/150)2 x 20 = 1.52 x 20 = 30%Of course, at 50 amps, the duty cycle remains at 100%Jack
Reply:
Originally Posted by HotEnd
Hello,I'm new to welding, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I'm willing to read almost anything you'd point me to.I inherited my welder. It's an Airco 225Amp MSM Stinger II (picture attached).It should have had a user manual with it, but I never found one. I tried searching online without success for an uploaded one or one available for purchase.It's got a 20% duty cycle, I'd assume at 225amps. So how would I determine the duty cycle of the other amperage settings? I'd try a linear scale, but at some point on the amperage scale, it's 100% duty cycle even with a lower amperage than what 100% duty cycle starts at.Thanks!PS: I know it's old and inefficient. I'm a student so I can't just run to the store and buy something decent. I also like it. It works and is made to be very reliable.PPS: I do have PPE.
Reply:
Originally Posted by HotEnd
I inherited my welder. It's an Airco 225Amp MSM Stinger II (picture attached).It should have had a user manual with it, but I never found one. ...PS: I know it's old and inefficient. I'm a student so I can't just run to the store and buy something decent. I also like it. It works and is made to be very reliable.
Reply:
Originally Posted by FlyFishn
^What @whtbaron states is very true. Even when you upgrade in the future I highly recommend you hang on to this one - and keep it in operational condition (replace worn out lead lugs, replace the leads if they are damaged & patched beyond safe operation, etc).SMAW is the base of all electrical arc welding methods - GMAW, FCAW, TIG. I wish a stick machine is what my dad got back in the day, but he went with a small flux core. So that is what I learned on. You can learn on anything, but thinking through the logistics of welding forms - stick is a more logical place to learn the dynamics of welding and the nuances with choice of rod for base metal, conditions, and purposes.All welding should be done with thought given to why, what, and how you are welding. Every welding process, and more specifically (not just MIG/TIG/Stick/OA) - the detail with that process (filler metal, heat, speed, etc) has its' drawbacks. All welding is a compromise so knowing how to steer the compromises to highlight the attributes you are after is one of the biggest keys to welding. It isn't all about "stacks of dimes" or "unicorn farts". Last note - you can stick weld some ugly things together and have it be strong. Think 6010/6011 on dirty/old metal. Those rods will penetrate the grunge and float impurities to the surface. So you won't be left with "good bead appearance" no matter what you do. Some can make the bead appearance look better than others, it all comes down to technique and practice. However, the top of the bead having grunge - even cleaning the slag off - will leave an ugly bead. Thats the nature of that kind of welding. What a lot of people do, especially on thick metal (think farm implements, construction equipment...) is to root pass with 6010/6011 for the above reasons - those rods will penetrate and flush grunge. Then they will clean that well - think heavy wire brush on a grinder, and depending on how much grunge is still in the bead go to a grinding wheel and really grind out the grunge. Then over top the cleaned bead (and the welding heating up the base metal next to the bead will help clean the grunge there - think oils and paints/coatings) lay 7018. This is a more structural rod and done well you can have very good bead appearance. As to your question about duty cycle - I have no idea. Best I can offer is to search online. You may be able to find information on it. You're off to a great start with that machine. I think too many people don't think through things and end up getting rid of those types of machines. In my mind, that is a mistake. If the world blew up tomorrow there would be two things left - cockroaches and old transformer welders. It will be there when all else fails and you need to stick metal together. Last note - you can get some pretty slick inverter welders for pretty cheap, all things considered, these days. In fact, I don't consider HTP a cheap company (they make some of the best welders you can get) and they have a surprisingly very affordable lunchbox stick welder - the Inverarc 160. I have an Everlast Powerarc 210STL - it is also a good basic TIG machine (with foot petal and internal gas port, not a torch gas valve or amp throttle). Now go burn some rods and have fun.
Reply:There is a mathematical formula but,,,, with 1/8 electrodes you wont be able to burn it up.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about duty cycle, its rare for most people to come even close when stick welding. AC transformer welders are about the simplest types of welders out there, making them durable, and long lasting. That is why you'll find so many of them on craigslist, and marketplace. People often find them limited in their capabilities, but for learning stick welding , they were the standard for decades. I learned to weld on AC, and for my first five years only had AC welders available to me. I still got a lot of work done, from sheet metal to 3/8" thick steel, with some occasional stainless steel (308L-16).As to getting a manual, your machine looks like a Airco made by Miller Electric. There are some threads online that may give you some information about your machine. It really looks like a standard Miller thunderbolt AC welder. To find out, you can open the cover on the welder, and look at the wire diagram on the inside to see who the manufacturer is. While your there you can vacuum out the inside, and put a little oil on the adjusting screw before you put it back together.So long as you have plenty of input power(50amp240v), you shouldn't have any problems learning to weld with this machine. Just get some 6011, 7014, and 7018AC rods(these all work on AC output welders) to practice with on some scrap steel. Try the diiferent types of rod to see what works best for you . So do you have any plans, or projects yet ? Welding tables are usually a good first project, there are some good threads here about these.Good LuckAirco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:
Originally Posted by HotEnd
Hello,I'm new to welding, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I'm willing to read almost anything you'd point me to.I inherited my welder. It's an Airco 225Amp MSM Stinger II (picture attached).It should have had a user manual with it, but I never found one. I tried searching online without success for an uploaded one or one available for purchase.It's got a 20% duty cycle, I'd assume at 225amps. So how would I determine the duty cycle of the other amperage settings? I'd try a linear scale, but at some point on the amperage scale, it's 100% duty cycle even with a lower amperage than what 100% duty cycle starts at.Thanks!PS: I know it's old and inefficient. I'm a student so I can't just run to the store and buy something decent. I also like it. It works and is made to be very reliable.PPS: I do have PPE.
Reply:
Originally Posted by albrightree
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about duty cycle, its rare for most people to come even close when stick welding. AC transformer welders are about the simplest types of welders out there, making them durable, and long lasting. That is why you'll find so many of them on craigslist, and marketplace. People often find them limited in their capabilities, but for learning stick welding , they were the standard for decades. I learned to weld on AC, and for my first five years only had AC welders available to me. I still got a lot of work done, from sheet metal to 3/8" thick steel, with some occasional stainless steel (308L-16).As to getting a manual, your machine looks like a Airco made by Miller Electric. There are some threads online that may give you some information about your machine. It really looks like a standard Miller thunderbolt AC welder. To find out, you can open the cover on the welder, and look at the wire diagram on the inside to see who the manufacturer is. While your there you can vacuum out the inside, and put a little oil on the adjusting screw before you put it back together.So long as you have plenty of input power(50amp240v), you shouldn't have any problems learning to weld with this machine. Just get some 6011, 7014, and 7018AC rods(these all work on AC output welders) to practice with on some scrap steel. Try the diiferent types of rod to see what works best for you . So do you have any plans, or projects yet ? Welding tables are usually a good first project, there are some good threads here about these.Good Luck
Reply:Most stick welding need 20% or 2 minutes out of 10 minutes welding. This about weld at max speed 2 minutes in 10. The rest time spent chipping and putting a new rod in the stinger. If you doing carbon arc work you set to machine to 100% .Dave
Originally Posted by HotEnd
Hello,I'm new to welding, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I'm willing to read almost anything you'd point me to.I inherited my welder. It's an Airco 225Amp MSM Stinger II (picture attached).It should have had a user manual with it, but I never found one. I tried searching online without success for an uploaded one or one available for purchase.It's got a 20% duty cycle, I'd assume at 225amps. So how would I determine the duty cycle of the other amperage settings? I'd try a linear scale, but at some point on the amperage scale, it's 100% duty cycle even with a lower amperage than what 100% duty cycle starts at.Thanks!PS: I know it's old and inefficient. I'm a student so I can't just run to the store and buy something decent. I also like it. It works and is made to be very reliable.PPS: I do have PPE.
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
20% @ 225A. So 2 minutes on, 8 minutes off at 225A.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Kelvin
Or (better yet, and generally assumed) 8 minutes idle (with the fan running if it has a fan) to cool the xformer...
Reply:I dont even think about it. I have ran 5 or more # of 1/8 lo hy on them lots of times, lots. Skip all those rods, get 1/8 6011, 3/32 and 1/8 7018AC and be done with it. The 18 AC is about as easy and as good as it gets, hot enuf and slow eno9ugh and its almost cant miss. Good for starters.Last edited by Sberry; 04-02-2022 at 11:11 AM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Most have problem with why duty cycle. I have found welding at 60% duty cycle is smoother and E7018 likes it better too. Like said most stick welders can weld about 2 minutes in 10 minutes. Mig and Flux core jumps up to about 50% of time or 5 minutesof welding and 5 of down time. So you look for a duty cycle of 60% Machine welding is 100% of time no breaks. A 225amp 20% stick welder has a duty for ather amperage 100% at 100 amps60٪ at 110 amps apx. Dave
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
Oops!! That's what I meant!! 2 minutes on 8 minutes off, I meant the actual arc, not the welder. I wasn't clear. Thank you for catching that. I cut my machines on and leave them on till I'm done. I let them idle for a little while after the lest bead, too.Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by Sberry
I dont even think about it. I have ran 5 or more # of 1/8 lo hy on them lots of times, lots. Skip all those rods, get 1/8 6011, 3/32 and 1/8 7018AC and be done with it. The 18 AC is about as easy and as good as it gets, hot enuf and slow eno9ugh and its almost cant miss. Good for starters.
Reply:Looks like the Airco in question was made by Miller. For a manual, see here: https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...7-airco-welder The links may have changed - Miller manuals here: https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-partsLook for the Thunderbolt 225 manuals in the models list."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oldendum
Looks like the Airco in question was made by Miller. For a manual, see here: https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...7-airco-welder The links may have changed - Miller manuals here: https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-partsLook for the Thunderbolt 225 manuals in the models list.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Jack Ryan
Hi,Welcome to welding and to the forum.The relationship between duty cycle and current is not linear. Try this:A = (S/I)2 x Rwhere:A = adjusted duty cycle at desired welding current (%)S = specified current at rated duty cycle (amps)I = desired (or actual) welding current (amps)R = factory rated duty cycle (i.e. at current S) (%)The duty cycle at 100 amps is = (225/100)2 x 20 = 2.252 x 20 = 100%The duty cycle at 150 amps is = (225/150)2 x 20 = 1.52 x 20 = 30%Of course, at 50 amps, the duty cycle remains at 100%Jack
Reply:
Originally Posted by albrightree
As to getting a manual, your machine looks like a Airco made by Miller Electric. There are some threads online that may give you some information about your machine. It really looks like a standard Miller thunderbolt AC welder. To find out, you can open the cover on the welder, and look at the wire diagram on the inside to see who the manufacturer is. While your there you can vacuum out the inside, and put a little oil on the adjusting screw before you put it back together.
Reply:This manual is for an older AC only welder with hand crank on top. : https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow.../O116F_MIL.pdf
Hope this helps.Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:
Originally Posted by HotEnd
It's nice to have a transformer welder manual -- although the Thunderbolt 225 is the wrong one. Mine doesn't have DC output.
Reply:Hey, believe Albrightree, He's in NW New Jersey. I used to work in Boonton. AIRCO was in Montvale.
"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oldendum
Hey, believe Albrightree, He's in NW New Jersey. I used to work in Boonton. AIRCO was in Montvale.
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
I thought if someone is from New Jersey it was a reason NOT to believe them.
Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oldendum
Hey, Goombah, I went through NJ for about 15 years, LOL! Found my way back to Virginia.
As others have said, just weld at a normal pace and you will likely never hit the duty cycle on that machine, especially with 1/8th inch or smaller rods which 99% of us hobby guys use.Miller Multimatic 255 |
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:48