How important is pulse using mig/spool gun on alumimum?

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I am just a hobby welder (no training), and have so far only used Mig and mostly DC stick on mild and stainless steel, building a couple of trailers, etc.I am looking to buy a Mig wleder with spool gun to practice welding aluminum, so I can try building a small alumium boat this winter.  Eventually I would like to build a large, alumium sailing catamaran, but that is at least 5 years (and alot of skill) away. At that time, there will be lots of aluminum to be welded, and I won't mind paying $5k or so for a great (high amp) mig setup, with spool gun or push pull gun.For now, I can't afford, nor justify a $5K Mig to practise or to weld a small alumium boat.How important is the pulse feature, for just practicing now, or for boatbuilding later?I can get a Hobart 210 with spool gun for around $900-1000 or I can pay $1500 - $2K and get an Everlast I-Mig 205P or maybe 250P with spool gun and have the pulse feature?Should I stay with a Miller / Lincoln brand and no pulse, or try the Everlast with Pulse?For now, I think the Miller/ Lincolns with Pulse are out of my price range.Anyone know what the cheapest Miller/ Lincoln models are that have Pulse, and take a spool gun?
Reply:I think if your focus is aluminum for boats you may want a TIG welder instead.
Reply:Do a search on Everlast  or Chicom and you might change your thinking on them.To your other question Pulse is not required at all. Definitive statement. It is a nice add on.As to the comment from Freestyle if you are doing small short non production welding a tig would be nice. It will take several hundred hours to get proficient. wire feed spool gun aluminum can be learned in 1/4the time. Buy in costs are about the same. Expect to pay $1500-$4500. IMHO the Hobart is under powered for aluminum work except at the most rudimentary level.





Reply:Hey Fat - Thanks for the info.  What would you consider the mimum Mig welder for something like this - hobby boatbuilding 1/8" - 1/4" mostly with some larger stuff later?There is a millermatic 252 with 30a spool gun for sale locally.  I don't think they have pulse??  Anyway, guy wants $3000, but I could try and offer $2500 cash and see if he bites.  Just can't afford any more than that right now - can't really even afford that!But want to get something soon, to start practising on alumimum.
Reply:Aluminum pulsed mig is a waste of time imo, the toe fusion line always looks cold, the heat input with argon makes for a cold looking weld and normally u have hydrogen entrapment. If it were up to me id look on ebay for a xr feeder with a 30 foot gun and try to find anything from a esab mig master 250 to a miller 250 or a decent miller welder, and yes you can hook the xr up to both of those style welders if u look at the schematic and figure it out.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Northeaster

Hey Fat - Thanks for the info.  What would you consider the mimum Mig welder for something like this - hobby boatbuilding 1/8" - 1/4" mostly with some larger stuff later?There is a millermatic 252 with 30a spool gun for sale locally.  I don't think they have pulse??  Anyway, guy wants $3000, but I could try and offer $2500 cash and see if he bites.  Just can't afford any more than that right now - can't really even afford that!But want to get something soon, to start practising on alumimum.
Reply:There was a huge Miller 450 amp welder with the xr feeder and gun for about $3000, but I figured it was more than I needed, and not portable / movable at all.There is an Esab Migmaster 250, about 10 years old that I could go look at.  Guy wants $900, but would likely take $800 or so.
Reply:careful with the 450, it could be three phase only.  pulse is useful on thin aluminum, but unnecessary for thicker than 1/8th inch. keep  a close eye on craigslist. I recently picked up a mid eighties miller power supply and a cobramatic push pull feeder for $550 locally, and have seen similar deals across the us.Last edited by turk; 09-19-2011 at 09:21 PM.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:The ESAB migmaster 250 is a nice machine,  also Look for the L-Tec Migmaster 250.  same machine, they do up to 280 amps.  I used to have one till I switched over to all Inverter based equipment...   you may want to look at getting a spot stitch timer...can be added to most 250 amp machines.  Thermal Arc Fabricator 250 251 model are nice too. similar setup to  a migmaster.   As for Everlast.  as you are a hobby user,  it would be worth considering with the 5 yr warranty.   as I noted before most of these that have problems are either due to a DOA issue or very early failure.  take a read through the sponsor forums.  lots of folks are happy with them.  Hands down if you can afford a red, blue, or yellow machine that's the way to go.  what is your power source?  if you are looking to run off a 50 amp breaker, you should check the requirements of the 250 amp+ transformer based machines before buying.  If you get an inverter based machine, you can pretty much run anything you need off a 50amp breaker.  getting a multi function inverter power source and a separate feeder and/or spool gun is a great alternative to running a dedicated mig machine..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Pulse is not necessary for welding Alum. over 1/8", but it is a big help for welding out-of-position, which you will be doing a lot of if you're building a boat

However, if you're welding Alum. 1/4" or thicker, you will definitely need at least a 250A machine and the power to run it.I would highly recommend a good used Miller/Lincoln/ESAB over a new Chinese machine. You will have a better machine and it will have higher resale value if you upgrade to a pulse machine later. $3K for the MM252/30A sounds high unless it/s practically new, but good deals crop up often on C/L if you're patient.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Miller says...

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Reply:Since this thread has pulse, aluminum, and spool gun I'm giving it a second life.Can I use a spool gun with pulsed current for aluminum or I'll put stress on it (or other welding issues) coz of the pulsing?
Reply:Yes you can, if it's a simple pulsed power source without a synchronized feed. The likes of an XMT with Optima, or MPA version, outputs a synergic pulse waveform that can be used with any wire feeder.Newer and more advanced power sources have synchronized feeders that work with double pulse, hot start, crater fill etc, and will only work with specific feeder setups.Regarding the pulse vs conventional MIG, pulse produces more heat in the gun tip, so the capacity is reduced. E.g. Binzel say to derate the capacity of any of their mig guns by 35% when using pulse. So simple answer is yes, you'll put more stress on the spool gun, but only the front end consumables.Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Reply:Since I purchased most mig welders before pulse. I use the trigger on welder witch what I do today.  I use for an thin gauge material so do not get burn holes.Dave

Originally Posted by Northeaster

I am just a hobby welder (no training), and have so far only used Mig and mostly DC stick on mild and stainless steel, building a couple of trailers, etc.I am looking to buy a Mig wleder with spool gun to practice welding aluminum, so I can try building a small alumium boat this winter.  Eventually I would like to build a large, alumium sailing catamaran, but that is at least 5 years (and alot of skill) away. At that time, there will be lots of aluminum to be welded, and I won't mind paying $5k or so for a great (high amp) mig setup, with spool gun or push pull gun.For now, I can't afford, nor justify a $5K Mig to practise or to weld a small alumium boat.How important is the pulse feature, for just practicing now, or for boatbuilding later?I can get a Hobart 210 with spool gun for around $900-1000 or I can pay $1500 - $2K and get an Everlast I-Mig 205P or maybe 250P with spool gun and have the pulse feature?Should I stay with a Miller / Lincoln brand and no pulse, or try the Everlast with Pulse?For now, I think the Miller/ Lincolns with Pulse are out of my price range.Anyone know what the cheapest Miller/ Lincoln models are that have Pulse, and take a spool gun?
Reply:

Originally Posted by And256

Since this thread has pulse, aluminum, and spool gun I'm giving it a second life.Can I use a spool gun with pulsed current for aluminum or I'll put stress on it (or other welding issues) coz of the pulsing?
Reply:

Originally Posted by Munkul

Regarding the pulse vs conventional MIG, pulse produces more heat in the gun tip, so the capacity is reduced.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Louie1961

This makes no sense for aluminum given aluminum MIG runs in spray mode anyway. Miller doesn't derate their MIG guns for pulse.
Reply:Why not just move the puddle back and forth like this " forward, back, pause, forward, back pause. and so on ".Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo.  Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:

Originally Posted by N2 Welding

Why not just move the puddle back and forth like this " forward, back, pause, forward, back pause. and so on ".
Reply:I think come down to technique and wend you learn mig welder. But looks great and if 20 years younger I try it out. FYI This thread was start in 2011.Dave

Originally Posted by Louie1961

Basically because you can't move the puddle fast enough by hand. Pulse mig pulses hundreds of times per second.
Reply:

Originally Posted by smithdoor

I think come down to technique and wend you learn mig welder. But looks great and if 20 years younger I try it out.
Reply:The thread is lable  how important in pulse  Low importance if never had used pulse as you lean a technique to same job with out pulse. Dave

Originally Posted by Munkul

You've totally missed the point of pulse. Why bother posting about something you don't have experience of?Read Post #12. Looks like you missed the point of the thread revival too.
Reply:I think if you try to build a boat with TIG you may have long journey.  Wire feed is the way to go