Layout for big projects off the ground

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What do you guys do for laying out and welding big projects?  My welding table is only 4x4 and I don't have enough room to make it larger.  I'm going to be welding a gate together that is 8x10 from tube.  Logically, I would put it on the ground, lay it out, tack it and then weld it.    But the idea of doing a bunch of welding on my knees is not all that tempting as I'm not as young as I'd like to be.  Is there a good way to raise it up and keep it straight?
Reply:I've built handrails on the garage floor on my knees of course and I'm no youngster either. Mine aren't elaborate, just a top rail and center rail. I use my level and the small wedges like used for door frames to get the pieces all level.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I’ve built several spanning two small welding tables but the best way I’ve found is using 4 of these at the same height:40.3-in W x 32-in H Adjustable Steel Saw Horse (1300-lb Capacity) https://www.lowes.com/pd/TOUGHBUILT-...ity/5003457541Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 120www.10FtDrillBit.comwww.MyWelds.com - pictures of my work
Reply:Sawhorses or pipe jack stands. I usually use some sort of " stringers" to build upon. Level those up and build from there. I'm not much for working on the floor either. If that was intended we would only be 6-12" tall.
Reply:The gate can be your table building the frame, just strategically weld to minimize warpage. You can also build vertical.If warped, then correct by driving over it with your vehicle. Laser levels are nice aids
Reply:I built my gate which was a little bigger than yours. I clamped it to the side of CNC plasma table(4x8) and built it vertically.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:I would use a laser level and saw horse. For squaring use the 3'x4'x5' method Dave

Originally Posted by whiskeymike

What do you guys do for laying out and welding big projects?  My welding table is only 4x4 and I don't have enough room to make it larger.  I'm going to be welding a gate together that is 8x10 from tube.  Logically, I would put it on the ground, lay it out, tack it and then weld it.    But the idea of doing a bunch of welding on my knees is not all that tempting as I'm not as young as I'd like to be.  Is there a good way to raise it up and keep it straight?
Reply:Everything I did would not fit on all tables unless it was ship building table size. Dave

Originally Posted by whiskeymike

What do you guys do for laying out and welding big projects?  My welding table is only 4x4 and I don't have enough room to make it larger.  I'm going to be welding a gate together that is 8x10 from tube.  Logically, I would put it on the ground, lay it out, tack it and then weld it.    But the idea of doing a bunch of welding on my knees is not all that tempting as I'm not as young as I'd like to be.  Is there a good way to raise it up and keep it straight?
Reply:4 pipe stands & some angle. Set the angle the correct width on the pipe stands & tack it so it doesn't move., Level  everything each way & go to town. For multiples tack in some angles on each end at the correct length & you have a jig.
Reply:I gave up working on my knees years ago, now it usually takes longer to gear up some kind of work surface than it does to do the project. Couple benches and some straight 2 x 8's. Mind you the 2 x 8 would probably equal the railing in cost :-).........M
Reply:About the year you joined the forum, I put together a small flatbed trailer.

  20 feet of channel leveled by tramming with your eyes.  Set it on sawhorses, step back about 20 feet, and sight along either the top of the channel, or sight the air gap between the two pieces.  You can be planar("level" for those folks that don't understand "flat") within less than 1/8" over this distance.As you're looking, see the gap, or mismatch.............then add shims under the steel to bring it up so that the gap/mismatch disappears.  You're planar.  Planar has absolutely nothing to do with being level...............it's about being flat with no warp.  That's all you need to do the work.

  To verify your work, tram it from another direction...........in this case, looking at it from front to back.  The pieces of channel laying on the  main frame members, serve the same purpose.  Sight it, and add shims as necessary under the main beams.This is simple, cheap, and works.I use a different method these days, but I have the necessary machine tools to make the necessary fixtures(adjustable jack stands) that can be used with a spirit level, or transit.  You do NOT need this level of perfection to do most projects.  Use your eyes.........they're extremely accurate.
Reply:......sight along either the top of the channel, or sight the air gap between the two pieces.
Reply:If your gonna keep doing this get yourself some pipe stands run some 2 inch pipe between them level it up lay your gate on there and go to work you can always use pipe stands not sure but think there are 18 to 20 in my shop plus 6 to 8 metal sawhorses some times you just gave to build something to make it work
Reply:Your shop looks great.I see lots of fresh air.Dave

Originally Posted by farmersammm

About the year you joined the forum, I put together a small flatbed trailer.

  20 feet of channel leveled by tramming with your eyes.  Set it on sawhorses, step back about 20 feet, and sight along either the top of the channel, or sight the air gap between the two pieces.  You can be planar("level" for those folks that don't understand "flat") within less than 1/8" over this distance.As you're looking, see the gap, or mismatch.............then add shims under the steel to bring it up so that the gap/mismatch disappears.  You're planar.  Planar has absolutely nothing to do with being level...............it's about being flat with no warp.  That's all you need to do the work.

  To verify your work, tram it from another direction...........in this case, looking at it from front to back.  The pieces of channel laying on the  main frame members, serve the same purpose.  Sight it, and add shims as necessary under the main beams.This is simple, cheap, and works.I use a different method these days, but I have the necessary machine tools to make the necessary fixtures(adjustable jack stands) that can be used with a spirit level, or transit.  You do NOT need this level of perfection to do most projects.  Use your eyes.........they're extremely accurate.
Reply:My floor is very flat but for a gate?Well?I would build it on a Trailer Deck so I only need to hunch over instead of being on my knees.LOL!
Reply:I built truck beds and trailers with a surveying instrument . Very flat the instrument could hold to less than 0.001"  I would keep it under 1/32" or as close as the square on the ruler 📏 . But I did not have a concrete floor it was soil that was scraped of weeds.Dave

Originally Posted by drujinin

My floor is very flat but for a gate?Well?I would build it on a Trailer Deck so I only need to hunch over instead of being on my knees.LOL!
Reply:When I build off my trailer deck, I end up on my knees inside the trailer.  Still better than the floor, save a lot of energy working at that level.
Reply:I agree. I spent a lot time on my knees. All my working I never did welding on a concrete floor.  It was soil or grave great on knees too. But most of my work was big and outdoors works.Dave

Originally Posted by tapwelder

When I build off my trailer deck, I end up on my knees inside the trailer.  Still better than the floor, save a lot of energy working at that level.
Reply:

Originally Posted by farmersammm

About the year you joined the forum, I put together a small flatbed trailer.

  20 feet of channel leveled by tramming with your eyes.  Set it on sawhorses, step back about 20 feet, and sight along either the top of the channel, or sight the air gap between the two pieces.  You can be planar("level" for those folks that don't understand "flat") within less than 1/8" over this distance.As you're looking, see the gap, or mismatch.............then add shims under the steel to bring it up so that the gap/mismatch disappears.  You're planar.  Planar has absolutely nothing to do with being level...............it's about being flat with no warp.  That's all you need to do the work.

  To verify your work, tram it from another direction...........in this case, looking at it from front to back.  The pieces of channel laying on the  main frame members, serve the same purpose.  Sight it, and add shims as necessary under the main beams.This is simple, cheap, and works.I use a different method these days, but I have the necessary machine tools to make the necessary fixtures(adjustable jack stands) that can be used with a spirit level, or transit.  You do NOT need this level of perfection to do most projects.  Use your eyes.........they're extremely accurate.
Reply:I can tell by eye too.

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Reply:

Originally Posted by Sberry

I can tell by eye too.