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Ok a friend of mine does dead stock removal (removes dead farm animals and he makes $$$) His main truck went down and he was using his old truck. So he wants a back up in case it breaks. He has asked me to make a mount and for a winch. Pictures 1-2 are as the trailer sites. Pictures 3,4 are what I would add. The steel I would use would be 2x2 1/4 wall. The winch would be bolted to 5/8 plate at the top. Picture 3 shows the up rights would be welded to the trailer frame in the center. I probably will scab on a second 2x2 so it can be welded to the base better.Picture 3 shows the inside with 2x2 welded for end to end. I would weld a plate to the sides of the bed and pit a gusset in. I fear the forces will want to pull in over. I'm debating adding a piece to tongue that can disconnect with a pin,
thus making a triangle
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Reply:Or a chain
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Reply:If you build a simple frame across the whole front, that would add a lot of reinforcement without adding a tounge attachment.Build a simple rectangle frame across the whole front, then put pieces from the bottom corners to the top middle.
Reply:How big is the winch?Dave
Originally Posted by Reebz
Ok a friend of mine does dead stock removal (removes dead farm animals and he makes $$$) His main truck went down and he was using his old truck. So he wants a back up in case it breaks. He has asked me to make a mount and for a winch. Pictures 1-2 are as the trailer sites. Pictures 3,4 are what I would add. The steel I would use would be 2x2 1/4 wall. The winch would be bolted to 5/8 plate at the top. Picture 3 shows the up rights would be welded to the trailer frame in the center. I probably will scab on a second 2x2 so it can be welded to the base better.Picture 3 shows the inside with 2x2 welded for end to end. I would weld a plate to the sides of the bed and pit a gusset in. I fear the forces will want to pull in over. I'm debating adding a piece to tongue that can disconnect with a pin,
thus making a triangle
Reply:Are we to assume the winch is electric and he could use cables w/ QD couplings to hook them to the truck's electrical system? Then, could the winch have a remote control cable so he could stand off to the side where he could see the animal well? If so, I'd consider mounting the winch on the front frame, mounting a pulley on top the front wall, and reinforcing the wall to accommodate the (mainly) downward force. Let the rearward force be against the framework that was designed for it. The winch could even be removable, if secure storage for the trailer weren't always available. I'd also make a keeper of some kind to prevent the cable from jumping out of the pulley groove during use.Does he have the necessary clearance to get into the Capitol? I understand there are a few corpses there.
Reply:How about mounting the winch at the bottom outside of the dump box and mount a rigid 4" or 6" snatch block on the top. You rig up a chain with a chain hook at the top along with a chain binder to take the pull of the winch. Then put jumper cable connectors or welder lead connectors with them connected so you maintain polarity between pump batt and the winch then disconnect them and the chain to dump. Just be sure you have a deep cycle batt so it can do both jobs as needed tho I'm sure there will be a time period between loading the animal and dumping it so the vehicle charge wire should maintain enough charge.Ol' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
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Originally Posted by Country Metals
If you build a simple frame across the whole front, that would add a lot of reinforcement without adding a tounge attachment.Build a simple rectangle frame across the whole front, then put pieces from the bottom corners to the top middle.
Reply:I would weld it to the actual frame like I did with this box. That front of the dump box is not that strong and may bend/bow. Anchor the crap outa it to the frame…and the wiring will be simpler too. That cross member is to rest the front bucket of my tractor. I wanted it anchored directly to the frame so that if there was ever a problem with the moving dump part of the trailer (like for some reason it started to go up!) or if the D ring tie downs failed that the load would be secure still.
Last edited by Tarmstrong; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
How about mounting the winch at the bottom outside of the dump box and mount a rigid 4" or 6" snatch block on the top.
Reply:Whichever way you decide, I would mount the winch to a tube that would slide into a trailer hitch tube. That way he could lock up his winch or use it on his truck as well.
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
How about mounting the winch at the bottom outside of the dump box and mount a rigid 4" or 6" snatch block on the top. You rig up a chain with a chain hook at the top along with a chain binder to take the pull of the winch. Then put jumper cable connectors or welder lead connectors with them connected so you maintain polarity between pump batt and the winch then disconnect them and the chain to dump. Just be sure you have a deep cycle batt so it can do both jobs as needed tho I'm sure there will be a time period between loading the animal and dumping it so the vehicle charge wire should maintain enough charge.
Reply:I like using channel it is easy to mount the winch. The channel needs to be size to winch.Dave
Originally Posted by Reebz
Ok a friend of mine does dead stock removal (removes dead farm animals and he makes $$$) His main truck went down and he was using his old truck. So he wants a back up in case it breaks. He has asked me to make a mount and for a winch. Pictures 1-2 are as the trailer sites. Pictures 3,4 are what I would add. The steel I would use would be 2x2 1/4 wall. The winch would be bolted to 5/8 plate at the top. Picture 3 shows the up rights would be welded to the trailer frame in the center. I probably will scab on a second 2x2 so it can be welded to the base better.Picture 3 shows the inside with 2x2 welded for end to end. I would weld a plate to the sides of the bed and pit a gusset in. I fear the forces will want to pull in over. I'm debating adding a piece to tongue that can disconnect with a pin,
thus making a triangle
Reply:I think I'd just weld a full width piece of rectangular tubing to the top of the box at the front, and mount it there. If it's mounted to the box, it's in a good position to use even if the box is tilted up. Your fairlead on the winch would handle a carcass that's not lined up with the winch.I'm surprised that it's a good business. We just take a dead one out across the creek, and let the coyotes dispose of the animal. BTW.......I think it's a wive's tale that coyotes take calves. We've never lost a calf to any coyotes. Only losses we suffer is when one gets its neck broken at the hay feeder when adult cows butt it, or shove against it. Sometimes a cow will trap a calf in a corner in the feed pen, and try to hurt it. Cows ain't very nice animals. They also have a very definite pecking order.
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
How about mounting the winch at the bottom outside of the dump box and mount a rigid 4" or 6" snatch block on the top.
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Originally Posted by John T
This will also increase the pulling power of the winch.
Reply:Alaska Weldshop RIP, installed the winch on one corner of the box, installed an anchor on the other. He then used a snatch block. Double line pull gives more pull to the winch & (surprisingly) not half speed. Winch motor runs faster under less load.This arrangement needs a swivel mount, as angle changes as it pulls. Consider chaining the winch. Put it inside a dry, locked tool box when not in use.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:This top is just bent sheet metal not significant is strength
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Reply:Judging by the condition of the trailer your friend abuses/doesn't maintain his equipment sowhichever way you go it better be hell for stout!
Reply:A piece of 3x5 11ga rectangular tubing welded flush with the top of the box, and inside the box, will hold the weight. The sidewall of the box forms a very strong web to resist a pulling load from front of trailer to back of trailer. A cow can weigh around 1200#. It's a dead load, not rolling load.........so it's a bit more than 1200#Let's call the load 1800#. A 6' 11ga 3x5, center point loaded beam, will take the load with a stress load of 12Ksi.......which is 1/3 the yield strength of the tubing. If you have the appropriate software, plug the numbers in.
Reply:You gotta remember.............the sides of that trailer are some really bigazz beams. They will resist a lot of force in either axis.If 11ga makes you feel a bit queazy, you can up it to 3/16You can even scab the sidewall around where the beam welds on to spread the force over a larger areaLast edited by farmersammm; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:54 AM.
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
How do you figure that. It's still only a 1 part line.
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Originally Posted by farmersammm
You gotta remember.............the sides of that trailer are some really bigazz beams. They will resist a lot of force in either axis.If 11ga makes you feel a bit queazy, you can up it to 3/16You can even scab the sidewall around where the beam welds on to spread the force over a larger area
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Originally Posted by Reebz
This is what I'm thinking. Plus a piece on the onside from side to side with a gusset and plates to the side. ...Snatch block pully in the middle. The winch will be bolted to a 5/8 plate or C Channel
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Originally Posted by John T
. But probably unnecessary anyway if you get a decent winch. Not to be confused with a decent wench. ]
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Originally Posted by Oldiron2
As I said back in Post 5: I'd probably make a pulley looking something like this, it being fixed to the top cross member, that being perhaps a 2 x 4 lying flat. I'd want wider than 2 x 2 and probably 3/16" thick.
Since the downward force is in compression of the wall, center supports going from the bed to the cross member, probably through the existing top sheetmetal piece (but maybe replacing it instead with the new cross member would be easier) and similar connections at the sides so the cross member would be tied directly to the side posts. Maybe even design the cross member with a cutout the pulley fits into. The uprights could be on both sides of the current center stiffener, perhaps replace it or??? Easier to see what you have if there, maybe even better once doing it..
Originally Posted by Reebz
I see I made a typo. It will have 2x2 1/4 wall on the inside of the bed as well as on the outside. I left out I will have a vertical brace on the in side as well to avoid compressional forces. That is the style pulley I will buy or make. He has old snatch blocks to work with.I imagine TWO 2x2 1/4 wall to be stout enough
Reply:I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
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Reply:He hauls about 80 horses and cows a week. That does not include deer, and pigs. One farm has 4,000 dairy cows on piece of land. Note its big land
Reply:This is the route I would go.....
The only thing I would change is to raise the height of the pulley at least another foot or two, and create an A-frame to support it instead of just using one length of vertical tubing or channel.The higher you can get your re-direct pulley, the better it will be when you're dragging a dead cow or other heavyweight lump. Friction against the ground really adds to the struggle, and a little angle to the pulling line will help more than most people think. The A-frame support also spreads the load out a bit more. Even with the top rim of the trailer reinforced a bit, having all the load right there at the center point is just asking for a failure, imo. I keep thinking about the drag factor of trying to pull a thousand-pound steer through the muck and mire just to get it to the ramps. Maybe that's not how your buddy does it, though, so..... As soon as I saw the pic, I thought it'd be neat and simple to just mimic the triangular look of the trailer's tongue. Definitely think about a reinforced anchor point inside the trailer so you can run a snatch block off the animal you're dragging.The cable goes from the winch out to a snatch block strapped to the critter, and then back to the anchor point on the trailer. This doubles the pulling force of the winch, theoretically, but requires twice as much cable to be spun out. I don't know how your buddy operates and if he can get close enough to spool out that much line, etc. Something to think about, though.Even without a running pulley in the equation, having the re-direct elevated a couple feet above the rail will make it easier to get the beef up the ramp because by the time it's there the leading end will be lifted off the ground a hair by the winch line. Make sense?Just draw a straight line from where you're going to have that re-direct pulley to where the animal will first contact the ramps. Will the line be pulling it too straight in? Will there be rubbing anywhere, like on the corner at the ramp hinge? Every inch you elevate that re-direct pulley above the rail will change the angle of the cable slightly, and that tiny change can really make a big difference when the deadweight is being pulled across the ground and up that transition zone into the trailer bed.
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Originally Posted by Reebz
I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
I think a 6k winch will be way more than enough.
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Originally Posted by Reebz
I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
Reply:VaughnTDo you mean like this?I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.I think I will make the frame flush with the sheet metal. To add strength I will tubing on top of the tubing lapping it on to the original frame or "scabbing it on the ends". Hard to explain. The purple shows the scabbed on pieces.I was going to work on it today but the new transmission on his truck broke down again. He said "I got to get 12 cows today with a wheel barrow'. I'm not sure how he loads with out a winch
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Originally Posted by Reebz
VaughnTDo you mean like this?I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.
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You don't need steel all over the place. Just mount the tubing inside the bed. Weld the plate to the sheet metal, then weld the tubing to the plate. 3/16 plate ought to do.The sheet metal is plenty strong in the orientation you're looking at. All of the strength comes from the sides, not the front of the box. It will resist torque if plated to spread the load over a larger surface.................and the tubing,, in turn, resists torque.Why resistance to torque? A winch isn't always pulling straight............it pulls up, and from side to side. Tubing resists force on all axis.Put all those pulleys on, and you have problems if it isn't a straight line pull. And, if the bed is up..........now you're running a ton of line, plus your tongue mounted winch is now trying to pull off the tongue upwards.Keep everything in the bed, and you're golden. If the dood uses the trailer for trash, an such.......make the mount so the winch comes off easy.....your receiver tube.
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Originally Posted by farmersammm
You don't need steel all over the place. Just mount the tubing inside the bed. Weld the plate to the sheet metal, then weld the tubing to the plate. 3/16 plate ought to do.The sheet metal is plenty strong in the orientation you're looking at. All of the strength comes from the sides, not the front of the box. It will resist torque if plated to spread the load over a larger surface.................and the tubing,, in turn, resists torque.Why resistance to torque? A winch isn't always pulling straight............it pulls up, and from side to side. Tubing resists force on all axis.Put all those pulleys on, and you have problems if it isn't a straight line pull. And, if the bed is up..........now you're running a ton of line, plus your tongue mounted winch is now trying to pull off the tongue upwards.Keep everything in the bed, and you're golden. If the dood uses the trailer for trash, an such.......make the mount so the winch comes off easy.....your receiver tube.
Reply:BTW...........a 2x2x.250 piece of tubing is less strong than a 3x5x11ga piece of tubing. Structural elements are all about dimensions, not necessarily wall thickness. .250 tubing is 5.9lbs/ft.............3x5x11ga is 6.2lbs/ftFabricating is all about sizing your elements. You can always go heavier (3/16) which doesn't hurt..........11ga is your minimum. Steel costs money nowdays, it's not like it was 2yrs ago. You can work with less.
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Originally Posted by Reebz
VaughnTDo you mean like this? I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.
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Originally Posted by VaughnT
Old Iron nailed it with his design. I like how you've drawn the A-frame and that's what I was thinking. The bed of the trailer offers some strength and the material you're using is plenty strong, but will the entire wall just cave in after a few cows have been tugged on? Old Iron's design takes care of that by bringing the A-frame back to the tongue.The pulley is going to be under a lot of forces, so you need bracing all around. The welds will do a lot to transfer some of the load to the bed rails on the trailer, but is everything strong enough to take the load it's going to get? Especially if you're talking a dozen dead cows, one after another. You'll have to be the judge of that because I honestly have no clue. Getting the re-direct pulley up higher off the rail will pay dividends on the first pull, but it has to be supported properly so you don't get that catastrophic failure you're worried about.Don't forget, too, that you need a guide in front of the pulley to keep the cable on track as you reel it back in. Your friend isn't going to be pulling straight in, and even a little off-angle tug will cause an un-guided wire to pop right out of the groove on the pulley. This can be something as simple as a heavy steel "funnel" plate turned vertical instead of the standard horizontal configuration.
Something like the above design would work well so long as the guide is right smack in front of the pulley and the slot is oriented vertically. I'd be tempted to put a roller guide farther out so it could guide the wire smoothly into the hole'd plate that then guides the wire into the pulley proper. Less rubbing on the cable with rollers.Sounds complicated, but one tug without a guide will make for a ton of mess.
Reply:I would mount the pulley in the bed of the trailer, just inside the headboard, and just high enough that the pulley does not drag on the floor of the trailer.Virtually 100% of the "strength" issues goes away. A simple bracket of angle, or bar steel will be adequate to hold the pulley.Then, I would cut a hole in the headboard, and run the cable through the headboard. The cable will only be a few inches above the floor.If you want to have the ability to pull from an elevated angle, simply raise the bed. You can get the cable pulling from over 6 feet high if you desire.I have a dump trailer, 10 foot bed. almost every time I load something by driving, or dragging into the bed, I lift the bed to get the best angle for my advantage.I have had this dump trailer for 23 years, there is little that I have not loaded, unloaded, or hauled.
Raising the bed simplifies every loading operation, except maybe dumping stone or other loose material into the trailer,,,Even when moving furniture, it is easier to raise the bed. That lowers the back of the trailer slightly, making it easier for the loaders.They can load by only having to lift to the lowered height of the back of the trailer. THEN the item can be moved forward into the trailer.
Reply:Everything in this world can be distilled down to 3 things. Beams, columns, and levers. That's it boys(shrug)I just put up some drawings which show mounting a beam inside the trailer. Cheap, easy, fast.Here's another approach where the beam is mounted outside the trailer. Same thing, just outside. That triangular bit of sheet metal hanging over the front of the trailer is simply a beam(it's considered a built up beam). The columns, if you will, are the long sides of the trailer. It's the sides of the trailer that resist the force, not the sheet metal front panel of the dump body itself.This stuff ain't rocket science.
Reply:I think sweet's idea is best. I just can't figure some designs with the A frame attached to the tongue and the winch on the box which means you'd have to feed out cable at the same time the box is raising. If I'm interpreting old iron's design right you can't raise the box. Wouldn't the vertical post have to be mounted on the crossmember in order to raise the box? You could mounI something like truckers use to control air hoses and light cable to control the excess power cable for the winch while raising the box. can't believe some winch co. hasn't designed a fairlead with one roller under adjustable spring tension to keep the cable from snarling up on the drum when theres no tension on the cable.Ol' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
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Originally Posted by mla2ofus
I think sweet's idea is best. I just can't figure some designs with the A frame attached to the tongue and the winch on the box which means you'd have to feed out cable at the same time the box is raising. If I'm interpreting old iron's design right you can't raise the box. Wouldn't the vertical post have to be mounted on the crossmember in order to raise the box? You could mounI something like truckers use to control air hoses and light cable to control the excess power cable for the winch while raising the box. can't believe some winch co. hasn't designed a fairlead with one roller under adjustable spring tension to keep the cable from snarling up on the drum when theres no tension on the cable.
Reply:I don't understand the comments one above (Post 42) or sweets ones about raising the bed.Regarding having the winch inside the bed or running the cable through the lower front wall, that would allow only retrieving one animal per trip, since the first would block further recoveries. Having the cable coming down from the top of the front wall allows it to go over the first animal when recovering another.I agree with Willie's cable guide comment; see Post 5 again. There are multiple ways of dealing with the small details such as material sizing; in my work, it often depends on what's at hand or can quickly be scrounged. I leave those details to the OP, unless he specifically asks..Last edited by Oldiron2; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by John T
This will also increase the pulling power of the winch.
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Originally Posted by cwby
No. One fixed pulley only changes direction of the pull. A moving pulley doubles the pull.
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Originally Posted by farmersammm
Everything in this world can be distilled down to 3 things. Beams, columns, and levers. ....
Reply:The more I think about what he is using it for, the more I'm convinced I'd want a gantry crane trailer set up.Similar to how a septic tank hauling truck is made.
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
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Originally Posted by John T
Do I need to call my beer wench for you?
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Originally Posted by John T
Yes I understand that and have addressed it. Do I need to call my beer wench for you? |
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:29