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I have a job coming up where i can do either and was wondering what process would be better to use? The job is 7 W18x50 beams that need to be put up in 2 parts and welded together in the middle with a bolt on plate then welded in place. I have a Bobcat 225 with a S54 feeder or just stick weld with the Bobcat. Could also drag my XMT304 to the site but not sure how much electricity they have. Most of it will be vertical or horizontal welding but the overhead has me nervous with 71A85. I remember it not being so good overhead where as stick i can do overhead good. I also plan on preheating the beams a little bit too but they are about 2 inches from the wood floor above so will have to shield the floor from heat. What would you guys do?
Reply:
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
I have a job coming up where i can do either and was wondering what process would be better to use? The job is 7 W18x50 beams that need to be put up in 2 parts and welded together in the middle with a bolt on plate then welded in place. I have a Bobcat 225 with a S54 feeder or just stick weld with the Bobcat. Could also drag my XMT304 to the site but not sure how much electricity they have. Most of it will be vertical or horizontal welding but the overhead has me nervous with 71A85. I remember it not being so good overhead where as stick i can do overhead good. I also plan on preheating the beams a little bit too but they are about 2 inches from the wood floor above so will have to shield the floor from heat. What would you guys do?
Reply:The main reason you use E7018 is if spec call for or Xraying. Typically use in metal buildings and pipe If A36 then most rods and wire will great if no spec on the job.Dave
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
I have a job coming up where i can do either and was wondering what process would be better to use? The job is 7 W18x50 beams that need to be put up in 2 parts and welded together in the middle with a bolt on plate then welded in place. I have a Bobcat 225 with a S54 feeder or just stick weld with the Bobcat. Could also drag my XMT304 to the site but not sure how much electricity they have. Most of it will be vertical or horizontal welding but the overhead has me nervous with 71A85. I remember it not being so good overhead where as stick i can do overhead good. I also plan on preheating the beams a little bit too but they are about 2 inches from the wood floor above so will have to shield the floor from heat. What would you guys do?
Reply:FYI I issued E71T-1 overhead it works great too. I use tons of E71T-1 in past.[PDF]Structural Welding Code UltraCore 71A85 - Lincoln Ele
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...cts/Consumable...Dave
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
I have a job coming up where i can do either and was wondering what process would be better to use? The job is 7 W18x50 beams that need to be put up in 2 parts and welded together in the middle with a bolt on plate then welded in place. I have a Bobcat 225 with a S54 feeder or just stick weld with the Bobcat. Could also drag my XMT304 to the site but not sure how much electricity they have. Most of it will be vertical or horizontal welding but the overhead has me nervous with 71A85. I remember it not being so good overhead where as stick i can do overhead good. I also plan on preheating the beams a little bit too but they are about 2 inches from the wood floor above so will have to shield the floor from heat. What would you guys do?
Reply:
Originally Posted by albrightree
Sounds like a challenging job ! A wire feeder would help, thats a lot of weld metal that needs to go in. 2" inches of clearance on the top of the beam sounds pretty tight to get a weld in. For me the hardest part of a beam splice is that transition from vertical to overhead at the intersection of the web, and the flange. Is 71A85 a gas shielded wire, if so, can you use 100% CO2 ?Regards
Reply:It is a learning curve like all welding. When I use E71T-1 is was with CO2. Dave
Originally Posted by Willie B
After a miserable time with Dual shield I learned a new bit. Last two digits are required gas. I had run 71A85 on 75% argon, it needs 85%.Next round, a more knowledgeable guy at Maine Oxy explained I needed 71A75 to use 75% argon.Dual shield is much faster than stick, but it gets fussy sometimes.
Reply:why not utilize both processes. Where you feel more comfortable with stick run with that process. The rest you can do with dual shield. It's all about your skill set and what's more accessible for that particular job.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Weld_
why not utilize both processes. Where you feel more comfortable with stick run with that process. The rest you can do with dual shield. It's all about your skill set and what's more accessible for that particular job.
Reply:Is this a remodel job where you could cut out a 4'X4' section of subfloor to avoid the heat and weld the top flange?
Reply:Its a remodel job on a 3 story building. The walls are brick and the ends of the beams will be on saddles at the walls with the splice in the middle. Its the floor joist reinforcement for the 2nd ceiling - 3rd floor floor. Its a tall building where the ceilings are about 12 ft tall each floor. The contractor cannot cut out the floor due to nice oak flooring laid in place and wood joists nearby. I was thinking i could bevel almost all the way through the beams on the top and bottom flanges so it would be almost all welded from one side that is easiest to weld. I have heard that about ultracore that 71A75 needs 75% and 71A85 needs 85% argon. It says in the lincoln datasheet that its Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon / balance CO2 shielding gas so it makes me wonder why they even make a 71A75? I've ran 71A85 with 75/25 gas and had no issues but wonder if it would run better with 85/15 gas? Has anybody ran both wires and gasses? I will probably try stick first as its 12ft up in the air and dragging the feeder in and up scaffolding could be a pain. I will try to get a picture too.
Reply:Bevel the top flange 45 degrees from bottom & use a backer bar on top. 1/4 to 3/8 gap & tie backer bar into root. Gives you a CJP weld if you do it right.
Reply:well, if someone is going to be inspecting/signing off on it, do it as specd and w/in whatever certs/credentials u got . or whatever paperwork u can produce, in case someone asks. sounds like stick would be better for u, i wouldnt mix the two. same person that told me there gonnna quit making 71m/c, told me that 71a75 sometime this yr. 7175 is gonna drop a class, and 71a85 will remain the sameLast edited by 123weld; 04-08-2022 at 07:57 PM.
Reply:I have use E71T-1 with CO2 witch work great. I do not what state you in but California is pain to use E7018 .Today I would use E71T-1 w/CO2 or E71T-11 no gas.Dave
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Its a remodel job on a 3 story building. The walls are brick and the ends of the beams will be on saddles at the walls with the splice in the middle. Its the floor joist reinforcement for the 2nd ceiling - 3rd floor floor. Its a tall building where the ceilings are about 12 ft tall each floor. The contractor cannot cut out the floor due to nice oak flooring laid in place and wood joists nearby. I was thinking i could bevel almost all the way through the beams on the top and bottom flanges so it would be almost all welded from one side that is easiest to weld. I have heard that about ultracore that 71A75 needs 75% and 71A85 needs 85% argon. It says in the lincoln datasheet that its Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon / balance CO2 shielding gas so it makes me wonder why they even make a 71A75? I've ran 71A85 with 75/25 gas and had no issues but wonder if it would run better with 85/15 gas? Has anybody ran both wires and gasses? I will probably try stick first as its 12ft up in the air and dragging the feeder in and up scaffolding could be a pain. I will try to get a picture too.
Reply:For welding in around wood I would spay water to stop any fire. The wet wood is hart to cache fire 🔥. Dave
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Its a remodel job on a 3 story building. The walls are brick and the ends of the beams will be on saddles at the walls with the splice in the middle. Its the floor joist reinforcement for the 2nd ceiling - 3rd floor floor. Its a tall building where the ceilings are about 12 ft tall each floor. The contractor cannot cut out the floor due to nice oak flooring laid in place and wood joists nearby. I was thinking i could bevel almost all the way through the beams on the top and bottom flanges so it would be almost all welded from one side that is easiest to weld. I have heard that about ultracore that 71A75 needs 75% and 71A85 needs 85% argon. It says in the lincoln datasheet that its Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon / balance CO2 shielding gas so it makes me wonder why they even make a 71A75? I've ran 71A85 with 75/25 gas and had no issues but wonder if it would run better with 85/15 gas? Has anybody ran both wires and gasses? I will probably try stick first as its 12ft up in the air and dragging the feeder in and up scaffolding could be a pain. I will try to get a picture too.
Reply:
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Its a remodel job on a 3 story building. The walls are brick and the ends of the beams will be on saddles at the walls with the splice in the middle. Its the floor joist reinforcement for the 2nd ceiling - 3rd floor floor. Its a tall building where the ceilings are about 12 ft tall each floor. The contractor cannot cut out the floor due to nice oak flooring laid in place and wood joists nearby. I was thinking i could bevel almost all the way through the beams on the top and bottom flanges so it would be almost all welded from one side that is easiest to weld. I have heard that about ultracore that 71A75 needs 75% and 71A85 needs 85% argon. It says in the lincoln datasheet that its Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon / balance CO2 shielding gas so it makes me wonder why they even make a 71A75? I've ran 71A85 with 75/25 gas and had no issues but wonder if it would run better with 85/15 gas? Has anybody ran both wires and gasses? I will probably try stick first as its 12ft up in the air and dragging the feeder in and up scaffolding could be a pain. I will try to get a picture too.
Reply:
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Its a remodel job on a 3 story building. The walls are brick and the ends of the beams will be on saddles at the walls with the splice in the middle. Its the floor joist reinforcement for the 2nd ceiling - 3rd floor floor. Its a tall building where the ceilings are about 12 ft tall each floor. The contractor cannot cut out the floor due to nice oak flooring laid in place and wood joists nearby. I was thinking i could bevel almost all the way through the beams on the top and bottom flanges so it would be almost all welded from one side that is easiest to weld. I have heard that about ultracore that 71A75 needs 75% and 71A85 needs 85% argon. It says in the lincoln datasheet that its Designed for welding with 75 - 85% Argon / balance CO2 shielding gas so it makes me wonder why they even make a 71A75? I've ran 71A85 with 75/25 gas and had no issues but wonder if it would run better with 85/15 gas? Has anybody ran both wires and gasses? I will probably try stick first as its 12ft up in the air and dragging the feeder in and up scaffolding could be a pain. I will try to get a picture too.
Reply:
Originally Posted by cwby
Bevel the top flange 45 degrees from bottom & use a backer bar on top. 1/4 to 3/8 gap & tie backer bar into root. Gives you a CJP weld if you do it right.
Reply:Who designed this?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:If I was gonna add would be flat plate on flanges, possibly on only 1 depending on design and demand.
Attached Images
www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Go with what you know. Stick seems less complicated. Having a feeder, and a bottle on a lift/staging can be cumbersome, especially if they're large. Just trying to visualize what you're doing, made sketch. I bought several years ago, a welding blanket from my travelling hardware supplier guy. It is called the "Black Knight" welding blanket, its more like a fleece blanket than one of the heavy fiberglass woven blankets. You might be able to find something like it and staple to the ceiling to protect from heat, and sparks.
best of luck, maybe some pics ?Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:I'd want open root, perhaps 1/2" gap & a backer above the top flange.You want a good tie in of backer & each side of the top flange.Might help bottom flange also.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:
Here is the structural welds that i have done so far. The beams are up next to the ceiling on the 2nd floor and the wood floor joists are just wide enough to get my head in beside the beam to see what i am doing. The first one i welded with 7018 which turned out good, but took a while to get it done. After that i decided to try the 71A85 and it went much faster. There's a few times it got porous on me but it was easy to grind out and reweld in place. The callout is for a 1/4 bead and i was meeting that with the 7018 but with the 71A85 it was way easy to overshoot that and make a 3/8 to 1/2 bead on the flanges. I don't like the splice at all but have to follow the blueprints for the engineered splice. The bottom plate is 1/2 by 9" wide and 30 inches long. The supplier welded the plate and bolt on flange to one side then they get jacked into place onsite. After that i weld along the bottom flange of the 9" plate and then there's two 1/2" by 2" bars that go on the underside of the top flange welded by me. I've been putting in about a 1/8 arch in the beams to preload them for the supports on the 3rd floor. Its kinda cold here with the back wall out of the building. Lots of the places along the limestone bluff have carved out caves behind the buildings too. Some of the ones i think rent them out for tourists to stay in the summer.
Reply:Looks great 👍 You may want to try E71T-11 for feild work. It is more stable if it is windy. Dave FYI It also made in E70-11 for flat welding. See chart https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/education-center/PublishingImages/ArticleImages/aws-fcawg1.jpg
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Here is the structural welds that i have done so far. The beams are up next to the ceiling on the 2nd floor and the wood floor joists are just wide enough to get my head in beside the beam to see what i am doing. The first one i welded with 7018 which turned out good, but took a while to get it done. After that i decided to try the 71A85 and it went much faster. There's a few times it got porous on me but it was easy to grind out and reweld in place. The callout is for a 1/4 bead and i was meeting that with the 7018 but with the 71A85 it was way easy to overshoot that and make a 3/8 to 1/2 bead on the flanges. I don't like the splice at all but have to follow the blueprints for the engineered splice. The bottom plate is 1/2 by 9" wide and 30 inches long. The supplier welded the plate and bolt on flange to one side then they get jacked into place onsite. After that i weld along the bottom flange of the 9" plate and then there's two 1/2" by 2" bars that go on the underside of the top flange welded by me. I've been putting in about a 1/8 arch in the beams to preload them for the supports on the 3rd floor. Its kinda cold here with the back wall out of the building. Lots of the places along the limestone bluff have carved out caves behind the buildings too. Some of the ones i think rent them out for tourists to stay in the summer.
Reply:
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Here is the structural welds that i have done so far. The beams are up next to the ceiling on the 2nd floor and the wood floor joists are just wide enough to get my head in beside the beam to see what i am doing. The first one i welded with 7018 which turned out good, but took a while to get it done. After that i decided to try the 71A85 and it went much faster. There's a few times it got porous on me but it was easy to grind out and reweld in place. The callout is for a 1/4 bead and i was meeting that with the 7018 but with the 71A85 it was way easy to overshoot that and make a 3/8 to 1/2 bead on the flanges. I don't like the splice at all but have to follow the blueprints for the engineered splice. The bottom plate is 1/2 by 9" wide and 30 inches long. The supplier welded the plate and bolt on flange to one side then they get jacked into place onsite. After that i weld along the bottom flange of the 9" plate and then there's two 1/2" by 2" bars that go on the underside of the top flange welded by me. I've been putting in about a 1/8 arch in the beams to preload them for the supports on the 3rd floor. Its kinda cold here with the back wall out of the building. Lots of the places along the limestone bluff have carved out caves behind the buildings too. Some of the ones i think rent them out for tourists to stay in the summer.
Reply:I only start using E71T-11 no gas fluxcore in 2018. It works great and in retirement no gas to buy. I wish I used when doing field welding it very fast too.Dave
Originally Posted by Willie B
It looks to be a very drafty place. I'd expect dual shield to be pretty fussy in that situation.I've used dual shield outdoors on a still day, but a small breeze comes up, I got a mess.I've little experience with unshielded flux core, but I hear it works fine in breezy applications.Did the engineer call for the plates at the upper flange to be at the edge of the flange? I'd have held them back 3/4" to make a filet weld easier than edge to edge.Today i finished up the last beam splice and they already started putting columns on the center of the beam to support the 3rd floor roof. Will be LVL's spanning the 3rd floor roof for support. There were a few breezes but for the most part the welding was trapped between the joist and the beam. I think i went through 40 lbs of wire and a full 125cuft bottle of gas. There was no callout on the placement of the straps by the engineer other than center on the splice so i did keep them a half inch back from the edge so it wasn't a edge weld. I'd rather do a overhead fillet than a edge weld. I'm glad to be done with this project as there's a lot of flammable tinder in this building.
Reply:Sounds great 👍 Dave
Originally Posted by ferrret3238
Today i finished up the last beam splice and they already started putting columns on the center of the beam to support the 3rd floor roof. Will be LVL's spanning the 3rd floor roof for support. There were a few breezes but for the most part the welding was trapped between the joist and the beam. I think i went through 40 lbs of wire and a full 125cuft bottle of gas. There was no callout on the placement of the straps by the engineer other than center on the splice so i did keep them a half inch back from the edge so it wasn't a edge weld. I'd rather do a overhead fillet than a edge weld. I'm glad to be done with this project as there's a lot of flammable tinder in this building. |
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:23