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If you are familiar with the Miller Econotig, at least 2 things should bother you about this welder:1) Since mine is an older model (1994), the foot control has full control (0-100%) and the panel knob does not work when the remote is connected. Later units and any with the newer pcb installed work like any other TIG welder. The panel control sets the maximum output and then the remote control (foot pedal) only goes from min. to the panel (max.) setting.2) The post-flow gas setting is fixed at 15 seconds (not adjustable). The general rule is 1 second for every 10 amps of welding current. So since the maximum output of this machine is 150 amps, Miller set the time at 15 seconds.You waste A LOT of argon, especially when you are only making tack welds! That 80 CF cylinder gets empty very quickly.3) It is nearly impossible to weld light gauge with this machine because the minimum current is 30 amps.
Let's work backwards and address #3 first. Unless it is somehow possible to wire a resistor to lessen the minimum output, then there is nothing Ican do about it. But I did read a post here that said to try using AC. I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but it seems like it could possibly work.A professional welder friend of mine, Kevin, recently let me use his Miller Maxstar 200 welder, and I believe that unit goes down to 5 amps. For the first time in my life, I actually had control of the weld puddle, instead of trying to get the filler wire in there as fast as I could before blowing through on light gauge metals with my Econotig. I also read a post here that said that the foot pedal supplied with the Econotig is a piece of crap. So I measured the resistance of the 1K ohm potentiometer inside, and the resistance was all over the place. And since this pedal has no screws (riveted shut) I couldn't easily clean the pot.I measured the Maxstar foot pedal, and it's resistance was nice and linear, as it should be.I didn't even bother to try his foot pedal on my Econotig, because I was already thinking of a way to limit the maximum output when using the foot pedal (complaint #1) on my machine. So between the resistance of the pot being all over the place AND the high minimum current AND not being able to set a limit, it's no wonder that I would blow through with just a little blip to the foot pedal.At first I was planning to add a second control knob (potentiometer) to the control panel wired into the foot control circuit to limit the maximum output (in tig mode only). Then I had an even better idea to use a stacked 2-layer pot so that the same panel control knob would work for both TIG and STICK modes (2 pots on 1 common shaft). This would achieve the same function as the newer machines, but just a different way of doing it. Pretty slick.
Since this machine is now a dinosaur, and I already knew that a new control board cost $500 in the past - and who knows if you can even get one today?, I wanted any modifications I was going to make to be done WITHOUT touching the control board in any way, if possible. So an even easier solution to this problem was a new foot control pedal that comes with a knob on the side that sets your maximum limit, and then the pedal controls from minimum to that maximum setting.
I found this one on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RFCS-14-Foo...IAAOSwPCVYBXxohttps://www.ebay.com/itm/NORSTAR-14-...0AAOSwYIxX6u6xand the only problem I had was that although the wiring was correct, the metal connector used on this model was too fat to easily slide into the matching connector on the control panel. All I had to do was remove the pins from the plastic connector of the original foot pedal and solder them to the wires of this new one.I got lucky, we had the proper tool to remove the pins where I work. To be continued......And I will attach pictures of the finished mods as soon as I get a chance.Last edited by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn; 03-31-2018 at 11:08 PM.
Reply:So to continue - complaint #1 solved by using this new foot pedal with max limit control knob.On to complaint #2.I wanted to have adjustable control over the post-flow gas time. But without doing any modifications to the $500. Econotig control board. Or, at least modifications that could easily be undone, if possible. The way this circuit works is that when you stop welding (foot control released), the output contactor inside the machine de-energizes, but the gas continues to flow for 15 seconds (gas solenoid energized). Huge waste of argon when making tack welds. I needed to find a way to trigger a timer/relay circuit to begin counting down upon RELEASE of the foot pedal (output contactor), AND a place to steal power from to supply my added circuitry.I had a lever micro switch similar to this one
that I was able to fabricate a bracket to mount the switch to the side of output contactor, so that the movement of it's plunger activated the lever on the micro switch...... a long-winded way of describing an auxiliary contact. A metal tab on the plunger sticks out on each side. To stop the gas from flowing, all I needed to do was interrupt the gas solenoid with a contact of a timer relay. But not just any typical timer/relay, because one of those would begin counting when the output contactor became energized, and then the gas would get cut off xx seconds into the weld. I needed this timer circuit to ignore the activation of the contactor and instead "see" the release of the contactor, then begin counting down.I found exactly what I was looking for on ebay. China makes an unbelievable amount of various assembled circuits that perform all sorts of functions. I found this timer and it only cost $4.42 with $1.85 shipping from China. I couldn't even buy the individual components for this for that price. And it even has 4 different operational functions, one being exactly what I was looking to do.
New 12V LED Automation Delay Timer Control Switch Relay Module with casehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-LED...53.m2749.l2649P1-4 operating modes: a signal to trigger the relay open but do not startthe timer, when the trigger signal disappears, digital count down begins Xtime after the relay close. During the delay, again to the signal, digitalcount down canceled, stays energized, the signal disappears, restartcount down; (equivalent to release the button to start timing, commonlyused in power-off delay).Now all I needed way a way to power this timer module. Looking at the wiring diagram for my Econotig, the easiest place to steal power, and not put any additional loads on the expensive control board circuitry, was directly from the 24 vac secondary winding of the transformer. It was convenient because it already had 1/4" spade terminals attached to the wires.
All that was left now was to find a power supply to convert 24 vac to 12vdc to power the timer relay module. Ebay to the rescue again. I found this one. Again from China and only $4.23 with free shipping.
Adjustable AC to DC 9-48Vac to 1.8-25Vdc Step Down Switching Power Supply Module https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-...53.m2749.l2649For convenience, I added a red LED to the welder's control panel wired directly across the gas solenoid to monitor it's operation.The gas solenoid is powered by 24 vac, but I found out that you can connect an LED to AC power and it will light. http://www.atsunday.com/2016/09/Of course I had to use a 940 ohm series dropping resistor, but I also added a series diode for protection anyways.To be continued......Last edited by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn; 04-01-2018 at 02:58 AM.
Reply:I have an Econotig that I never use. I look forward to seeing how your project works out. Subscribing.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:As its name implied, the econo tig was just that, an entry level lower cost tig welder. To create a lower cost tig welder its built with minimal detail to keep costs down. The diversion series is the new econo tig from miller. Like the econo tig, the diversion series is low on bells and whistles. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I will be adding the photos soon.
Reply:Okay, so here are those photos - finally.Here is the timer mounted to the side of the welder.
Shows the timer connector I attached.
Shows the gas solenoid. Notice the green wires. They are connected across the solenoid.
And run to a red LED that I mounted on the front panel to monitor the operation of the gas solenoid.
Shows how & where I tapped into the secondary off the main transformer to get 24 VAC for the power supply.
Shows the added power supply used to power the timer. The yellow wires are the 24 VAC in, and the red & black are DC out.I added a 1 amp fuse inline on the input side to protect the main transformer. I set the PS output for 12.0 volts.Shows an overall view of my modifications.And here is how I was able to get this circuit to initiate. This shows the output contactor. Notice the lever micro switch I added to the side of the contactor.There is a tab that sticks out. It is the movable contact. When the contactor pulls in, that tab moves which, in turn, activates the micro switch. The wires connectto the timer's enable connection (+12v to IN).Now before anyone says that the timer will begin counting down as soon as the foot pedal is pressed, and cut off the gas XX seconds into the weld, you're wrong. This timer has 4 different operating modes, one of which does this: P1-4 operating modes: a signal to trigger the relay open but do not start the timer, when the trigger signal disappears, digital count down begins X time after the relay close. During the delay, again to the signal, digital count down canceled, stays energized, the signal disappears, restart count down; (equivalent to release the button to start timing, commonly used in power-off delay).So what this does for me is that the timer does not begin counting down UNTIL I RELEASE THE FOOT PEDAL.Right now I have it set for 4 seconds, so when I finish my weld, the gas now flows for 4 seconds and stops.Way better than the fixed 15 seconds built into the main control board. But that function is still there, becauseI didn't mess with that main control board at all. If I set my added timer to anything greater than 15 seconds,the gas is still going to time out and stop at 15 seconds.So between the new foot pedal with its added control for MAX output, and now having control over the post-flow gas time,my Econotig is much more user friendly.
Last edited by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn; 05-04-2018 at 11:14 PM.
Reply:Here are the last 3 photos:
Last edited by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn; 05-04-2018 at 11:26 PM.
Reply:Nice write-up. I can't help but think that the 15 second post flow circuit could be easily hacked and a knob added to select the post flow time.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Sure it can. It's just a resistor on the main control board.But I wanted to do all of this without touching that $500. board (if you can even still get one).The digital timer on the side is easy to set the desired post-flow time.
Reply:Thanks for posting! Now I'll have a project for next winter.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmall
Thanks for posting! Now I'll have a project for next winter.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn
So to continue - complaint #1 solved by using this new foot pedal with max limit control knob.On to complaint #2.I wanted to have adjustable control over the post-flow gas time. But without doing any modifications to the $500. Econotig control board. Or, at least modifications that could easily be undone, if possible. The way this circuit works is that when you stop welding (foot control released), the output contactor inside the machine de-energizes, but the gas continues to flow for 15 seconds (gas solenoid energized). Huge waste of argon when making tack welds. I needed to find a way to trigger a timer/relay circuit to begin counting down upon RELEASE of the foot pedal (output contactor), AND a place to steal power from to supply my added circuitry.I had a lever micro switch similar to this one
that I was able to fabricate a bracket to mount the switch to the side of output contactor, so that the movement of it's plunger activated the lever on the micro switch...... a long-winded way of describing an auxiliary contact. A metal tab on the plunger sticks out on each side. To stop the gas from flowing, all I needed to do was interrupt the gas solenoid with a contact of a timer relay. But not just any typical timer/relay, because one of those would begin counting when the output contactor became energized, and then the gas would get cut off xx seconds into the weld. I needed this timer circuit to ignore the activation of the contactor and instead "see" the release of the contactor, then begin counting down.I found exactly what I was looking for on ebay. China makes an unbelievable amount of various assembled circuits that perform all sorts of functions. I found this timer and it only cost $4.42 with $1.85 shipping from China. I couldn't even buy the individual components for this for that price. And it even has 4 different operational functions, one being exactly what I was looking to do.
New 12V LED Automation Delay Timer Control Switch Relay Module with casehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-LED...53.m2749.l2649P1-4 operating modes: a signal to trigger the relay open but do not startthe timer, when the trigger signal disappears, digital count down begins Xtime after the relay close. During the delay, again to the signal, digitalcount down canceled, stays energized, the signal disappears, restartcount down; (equivalent to release the button to start timing, commonlyused in power-off delay).Now all I needed way a way to power this timer module. Looking at the wiring diagram for my Econotig, the easiest place to steal power, and not put any additional loads on the expensive control board circuitry, was directly from the 24 vac secondary winding of the transformer. It was convenient because it already had 1/4" spade terminals attached to the wires.
All that was left now was to find a power supply to convert 24 vac to 12vdc to power the timer relay module. Ebay to the rescue again. I found this one. Again from China and only $4.23 with free shipping.
Adjustable AC to DC 9-48Vac to 1.8-25Vdc Step Down Switching Power Supply Module https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-...53.m2749.l2649For convenience, I added a red LED to the welder's control panel wired directly across the gas solenoid to monitor it's operation.The gas solenoid is powered by 24 vac, but I found out that you can connect an LED to AC power and it will light. http://www.atsunday.com/2016/09/Of course I had to use a 940 ohm series dropping resistor, but I also added a series diode for protection anyways.To be continued......
Reply:I know nothing about the Lincoln SW200, but I imagine that it is similar.All my mod does is to interrupt the gas solenoid with a timer controlled relay contact installed in series with the gas solenoid.Since I made no modifications to the main control board, if I wanted to disable or remove my mod, all that would have to be done is tojumper out that added relay contact and the welder is back to original. Also, in my case, since the original circuitry still remains in play,the gas is still stopped at 15 seconds, even though my added circuit cut the gas off seconds earlier. If I set the added digital timer tomore than 15 seconds, the main control board would be the first to cut off the gas flow at 15 seconds, as originally designed.
Reply:Trying to solve for post flow time is just a waste in my mind. I mean if you are having fun with the project then go for it and enjoy. But the economics are not on your side. If the machine has a post flow that is 15 seconds too long, then 15 seconds of argon, at most is 0.08 cubic feet of argon (assuming an overly generous 20 CFH per hour), which cost between 2 and 4 cents depending on where you get your gas and the size of the bottle you buy. You lose more money in the cushion of your couch than you will lose in argon costs. You would have to initiate 100 arc starts to even wast 10% of an 80 cubic foot bottle. The idea that "80 CF cylinder gets empty very quickly" just doesn't ring true for me. The math doesn't add up.I had one of those pedals you show, when I had an AHP welder. Worst foot pedal in the world in my mind. If you want an upgrade get an SSC pedal. Again, if you are having fun, more power to you, but I think your upgrades really don't add value and in the case of the foot pedal, it makes things worse in my opinion, not better. As far as 30 amp starting current, that ought to be good to anything down to 0.030 thick steel. So it will weld 22 gauge steel without blowing through. How much work are you really doing on anything thinner than 22 gauge? If you do, there are work arounds like a copper welding spoon, chill bars, etc.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Well I finally had a chance to actually try the welder the other day, and for me it was a night and day difference.For the small project I was working on, I had the knob on the foot pedal set at about one-third, and it did limit the max output as I expected.And the post flow was set at 4 seconds and worked great also. So I am pleased because now my Econotig is like a completely different (and better) machine.
Reply:This is super awesome. My (new to me) Miller econotig wastes a ton of argon post flow This is something I definitely need to put on my to-do project list. Thanks for the detailed write up !
Reply:You're welcome.That is why I posted this.I'm glad someone else could benefit.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn
You're welcome.That is why I posted this.I'm glad someone else could benefit.
Reply:I see you like numbers. So let's approach this that way.Make a 3 second tack, argon continues flowing for 15 seconds, tungsten is cool in only 3 seconds. So 12 seconds of argon wasted for each tack.I have my timer set for 4 seconds when making tacks, so 11 seconds saved.You don't realize how bad this is unless you are the one actually paying for the argon.What's worse is you are working on your project on the weekend, you have plenty of argon, you get through your tack welds and begin to make your finish welds and...
argon cylinder is empty.
It's now Saturday night and you are not getting any more argon until Monday (if you're lucky). 80 cf cylinders are not plentiful. So yeah, it makes a huge difference!You can experience this for yourself - set your post flow time for 15 seconds and see how fast your cylinder runs out of argon.Last edited by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn; 6 Hours Ago at 09:12 PM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Has-A-Lot-To-Learn
I see you like numbers. So let's approach this that way.Make a 3 second tack, argon continues flowing for 15 seconds, tungsten is cool in only 3 seconds. So 12 seconds of argon wasted for each tack.I have my timer set for 4 seconds when making tacks, so 11 seconds saved.You don't realize how bad this is unless you are the one actually paying for the argon.What's worse is you are working on your project on the weekend, you have plenty of argon, you get through your tack welds and begin to make your finish welds and...……… argon cylinder is empty.
It's now Saturday night and you are not getting any more argon until Monday (if you're lucky). 80 cf cylinders are not plentiful. So yeah, it makes a huge difference! |
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发表于 2022-2-18 15:51:29