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Well
Round II went just as I figured.........The First Round was the "factory" method. Beat on it from above. I gave up on that a week ago.Round II was using the new puller without heat...............Likewise, it didn't budge.....even with some gentle(
) tapping with a tire sledge. Not overly crazy, just enough to set up a vibration.It was too late in the day to get the torch out (I have a bunch of stuff blocking it, and need to tidy the shop up a bit).Probably start off with the small OA rosebud. I really hate to put too much heat under the jack.If the little rosebud doesn't work(which I don't think it will), I guess we'll roll out the mega btu propane rig. I'm thinking I'll put the bulk of the heat into it with the jack off the shaft, then throw the jack on, and just finoogie a bit more heat into it and let it cool off with the jack providing strain. Most times............hubs seem to want to pop off during the cooling cycle. I guess the high heat, and subsequent cooling, breaks any rust bond as the metal moves out and back.The mowchinist in me, hates banging on stuff that's on a bearing. Brinell a bearing, and it's worthless.
Reply:
Round 3 Goesto The Hog!!Got everything set up. Cracked the valve on the Oxygen bottle...............and the stinkin' low pressure gauge goes to 200
Crack the valve on the torch, and it came back down to 60 if you kept the valve open.So, I get my lovely assistant K'kins to do fire watch, and warn here to stay the Hell away from the heatiing rig (I'm afraid the regulator might blow).Got fired up, and just started heating(about 1 minute)...............................when POP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The diaphragm in the regulator went South, and was dumping Oxygen out of the vent ports
Tomorrow is another day
I figure I'll cut the bolt heads off the pan, and remove it, so I can get better access to the hub for heat application. This is gonna probably take a bit of heat to get it off. With the pan on, I only have a very limited area I can access with the heating tip.
Reply:Went through that with a honey wagon pump that hadn't been opened up for 35 yrs. I found it worked better if I threw it all out in a snowbank at -35 before I started heating and pulling. Just saying...The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:
Originally Posted by whtbaron
Went through that with a honey wagon pump that hadn't been opened up for 35 yrs. I found it worked better if I threw it all out in a snowbank at -35 before I started heating and pulling. Just saying...
Reply:I didn't get around to cutting the bolts today, but I did get the regulator fixed. $26 all told. Guy fixed some sort of pin looking thing, and replaced the diaphragm, then checked the Bourdon tube to see if it had been bent. Works fine.I did put some heat into the assembly, and no go
Cut the bolts in the morning.
Blade pan is held to the hub by bolts. I just found these diagrams this evening. You can see why it's futile to apply heat without removing the entire blade pan assembly.
The hub (#40) has to be heated once all the obstructions are removed. I'm pretty sure I have a regular puller big enough to handle it. If not, I can use a bearing separator, and thread some rods to use with the new "mother of all pullers". Might even be easier to make a quickie collar that can be used with the new puller, and the existing rods.Another bad deal............the shaft probably has about .015 radial slop. If it's worn bearings I'm lucky. If the bearings wore into the shaft, I'm looking at a new shaft. If the cups wore into the casting, it's fixable if I can get it on the milling machine.............which might be a stretch because I'm sure I don't have enough spindle to table top clearance.
Reply:I haven't tried it on a high speed shaft, but I have had good luck rebuilding cultivator and combine spindles after wheel bearings have locked up or blown apart. I just used the mig and the old bearing to check clearances. I was careful to work slow and not put a lot of heat into the shaft and do 4 sides evenly. You have a lathe so you could be a lot more accurate, I was just turning them back down with a hand grinder. I'm still after that "Grinder of the Year" award...The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:This is my go to puller for hubs that have bolt holes. 2 sets of 5 legs short and long , has a 1 inch fine thread screw. I estimate 20 tons with a 3/4" impact. Got it for 20 bucks out of the used tool bin on the MAC tool truck. It will pull some pretty big hubs off tapered shafts on drilling equipment.
Reply:I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:
Originally Posted by whtbaron
I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.
Reply:
The bolt heads were cut off to remove the pan. It's impossible to reach the underside through the access hole to put a wrench on the nuts............so you sacrifice the bolts. All went fairly smooth, with the exception of one bolt head where the oxygen stream strayed into the plate, and gouged it. This happens sometimes..........I always warn about this when I talk about scarfingThe dishpan, and blade plate, are removed for access to the hub.
Then The Fun StartsThis was a really tough one. Normally I only have to heat one segment of a hub, and it'll pop off. This time, I had to heat two opposite segments to get it done. It popped off while it was cooling. I'd turned my back to shut the torch off, and put it back on the cart..............AND KAPOW!!!!!!!!!!!. K'kins was the one who saw it pop. She gets a kick out of this stuff
Last edited by farmersammm; 07-31-2021 at 01:24 AM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by whtbaron
I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.
Reply:Gearbox Diagnosis
Shaft End Play
.006 endplayRunout
.002 runoutIt's my feeling that the gearbox is healthy, and needs readjustment of the tapered roller bearing preload. I'd be very happy with about .0015 endplay. My thought is............the excessive endplay is contributing to the runout......remove it, and runout ought to come back in line. I do NOT want an actual preload on these bearings......there should be endplay, much like any spindle bearing pack made up of Timken tapered roller bearings.The gearbox is designed, if I'm reading the drawings right, so that I may have to remove the input shaft to change the preload on the output shaft. This involves a set of gaskets, and another seal........plus the labor. This piece of equipment is holding up haying right now. I need to decide whether to put the new seal in that's been leaking, and just run it..........or spend the time going into the gearbox.
Reply:Hub, and TaperIn a word...........pristine.
I have no issues with this part of the assembly. To be sure, I'll probably check face runout on the hub to be sure that heating didn't warp it.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
Gearbox Diagnosis
Shaft End Play
.006 endplayRunout
.002 runoutThis piece of equipment is holding up haying right now. I need to decide whether to put the new seal in that's been leaking, and just run it..........or spend the time going into the gearbox.
Reply:Looks like the leak might have been though the metal part of the seal.---Meltedmetal
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oxford1
And away we go. If it’s holding up haying, and hay is seemingly always a crisis for you, then why in the world are you fiddle****ing around (again), indulging yourself with your machinist gobbledygook, instead of getting on with fixing the thing? Put the damn seal in and get to getting. I suppose it couldn’t have anything to do with getting attaboys and pats on the head from your amen chorus.....Said it before: I feel sorry for your cows. That must be some nice hay, cut with a Bush Hog.
Reply:What make, size, and gearbox rating is that ? With parts being expensive, buying a replacement mower maybe cheaper and less of a headache. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by BD1
What make, size, and gearbox rating is that ? With parts being expensive, buying a replacement mower maybe cheaper and less of a headache. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
150hp max
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...page=85#manual
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
150hp max
Rhino made some pretty nice stuff back in the day, I'm assuming they still do??https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...page=85#manual
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oxford1
And away we go. If its holding up haying, and hay is seemingly always a crisis for you, then why in the world are you fiddle****ing around (again), indulging yourself with your machinist gobbledygook, instead of getting on with fixing the thing? Put the damn seal in and get to getting. I suppose it couldnt have anything to do with getting attaboys and pats on the head from your amen chorus.....Said it before: I feel sorry for your cows. That must be some nice hay, cut with a Bush Hog.
Reply:The seal couldn't be removed from below, and has to be driven out by the shaft when the shaft is removed. I tried my best, but all I did was mangle the seal without being able to lever it out of the bore. At this point I gave up, and decided to open up the box to see about removing the shaft.
This thing can't be run like it is. Last time it was run was back in 2011, and still held oil at that time. I guess over the years the seal failed, and water got in somehow. The rust isn't as bad as it looks. I couldn't find any pitting on the gear faces (whew)
The entire gear case if full of oxidization (I guess) It would tear the bearings up if you refilled, and just ran it.I tried removing the bearing adjusting nut, but it won't move easily using a drift.......note that it's a castillated nut.
I have half a dozen hook, and pin, spanners............but you can't get room inside the case to use them.McMaster has castellated sockets (this nut is a 2 1/4 approx. size) https://www.mcmaster.com/sockets/spanner-sockets/ I'll be damned if I'll pay over $400 for a socket
But Sammy ain't gonna get beat that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I always scrounge from the oilfield pump rebuilders around here. They let me have their scrap sleeves (dunno what they're used for, but they're expensive, and a harder material than plain ol' pipe)
I got lucky!! I have a 10' section of the stuff in almost the perfect size to make the socket
So...................we're gonna pull the gearbox, and put it up in the shop till I can get to it. We'll just have to use a chainsaw, or rent a cutter, to get the work done. I have some bad areas in the hay meadow that have to be cut in order to even get the swather into the field. And I need to cut a path off our place too. The swather doesn't fit through the gate, and always has to be run through the fence up to the highway
Reply:I've always just bought a cheap impact socket that the o.d. was close to the i.d. of the slots and welded small pieces of keystock to it for the pins. Of course Ive never had one I couldn't loosen with a punch provided I could access it easily such as yours.
Reply:My tandem disk uses 2 1/4" nuts on the end of the gang bolts too. For the square end I built a wrench, but I got a Chinese socket for the SAE end. Think I paid around $35 Cdn. and I've used it with a 1/2" impact, but I wrap it in tape in case the bits fly. Once you get up to those sizes they are pretty hard to break so I'm not paying SnapOn prices.Ooops.... skipped over the spanner socket part...... carry on...Last edited by whtbaron; 08-01-2021 at 09:49 PM.The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:
Originally Posted by M J D
I've always just bought a cheap impact socket that the o.d. was close to the i.d. of the slots and welded small pieces of keystock to it for the pins. Of course Ive never had one I couldn't loosen with a punch provided I could access it easily such as yours.
Originally Posted by M J D
I've always just bought a cheap impact socket that the o.d. was close to the i.d. of the slots and welded small pieces of keystock to it for the pins. Of course Ive never had one I couldn't loosen with a punch provided I could access it easily such as yours.
Reply:Near as I can tell, this is the current equivalent of my old machine.
The BH316-2 comes closest to matching the specs on my old machine. https://bushhog.com/single_spindle/b...otary-cutters/Pricey little guy
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing...bush-hog-bh316
Reply:I don't like the solid top link. Mine has chains where the bridle meets the deck. The chains allow for some float if you go over something bigger than you thought it was. Mine allows the tail wheel to ride over stuff, and lift the entire deck. The new ones look really rigid......not sure how good that is
Reply:That one at Tractor House doesn't have gear box HP rating. Many 6' and 7' are only 60 HP rated by me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:If You're Gonna Mess it UpDo it With Gusto!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, I'm cruzin' along.........THE GREATEST MOWCHINIST IN ALL INTERSTELLAR SPACE!!!!!!!
I'm using this stuff I got from the oilfield pump supply. HSS won't cut it without squealing, only thing that does a good job is carbide. I have absolutely no idea what this stuff is, but it's tough. Got 'er faced on both sides, and plopped it on the rotary table.
It's going well. Have to really go slow when going through the pipe wall. Lot of vibration. Thin walled pipe that's not rigid at all.Then the Crowning Achievement of the Evening
The part worked loose in the chuck. I knew it was not the best setup, because the thin wall stuff tends to crush in the in the chuck jaws, and work loose. I should have kept an eye on how tight it was between operations
And, I was taking fairly deep cuts for my mill (.125 DOC, two passes to a depth of .250). Do it over in the morning with a smaller end mill, and less aggressive cuts. Carbide end mills get real pricey when you crash 'em
This one gets hung on the WALL OF SHAME
(Sigh)
Reply:long time lurker and not any kind of machinist/ welder. but could you not turn up a plug to go into the tube? just the height of the jaws so you can then clamp down hard without fear of crushing the tube? just a easy push in by hand plug?
Reply:Maybe something fast and easy to make like hardwood... easier to drive in and out and sacrificial where you are milling....The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:hardwood, softwood, plastic anything with a bit of non compressibility about it will work. even better if it comes out the tras....ahem the this a very useful thing i may need it later pile
Reply:Hey guys, thanks for the ideas. It turned out to be amazingly simple. I was using the wrong technique.
Round tubing mills better when you work from the inside out
I guess there's two possible explanations..........One, the force presses against the chuck jaws instead of pressing away from the jaws.........Two, the end mill likes to enter the metal on an inside curve, less shock, and a broader face to take the force of the mill. Either way, it worked.I still don't really know what this stuff is. I tried a HSS end mill, and even with coolant, it started screaming. It simply wouldn't cut it without the high pitched whine. This tells you that it's probably bad for the cutting edge I'm thinking. Switched to a carbide fine rougher, and it went much better. Vibration was an issue at anything over .050 DOC. This stuff is NASTY.The Glamour Shot
It was a real bit of work to clean up all the burrs. Lot of time with a little file.
I'll weld a top on it tomorrow (I hope it's weldable) then weld a large nut to the cover for a wrench to grab.
Reply:On tube like that if you reverse your jaws and hold from the inside you will get better results holding it. Not always possible but it helps. As for the chatter, hard to explain that, must be that the tube is more rigid if your trying to expand it.
Reply:A piece of thin plate was cut, and welded to the tubing to make the "roof" of the socket.
The welds are nothing more than very hot tack welds. The idea is to keep heat to a minimum. There's no need for bigger welds. The weak links in the chain are the castellated fingers that grab the nut, so the welds need only be as strong as those fingers.
Centered the nut, and tacked it on the outside. Then the inside was welded to the plate. After welding, the tack ground off.
All set for what I thought was a fairly straightforward job.This Ruined our Evening
I mentioned earlier that the nut was staked. This is what "staked" means, for those not familiar with the term. When a nut is installed, a punch is used to deform the thread so that the nut won't back off easily. Or, when the nut is made, it's staked to deform the threads prior to installation. Well.....................it accomplished its mission
It took us close to half an hour to get the damn thing off. I had to hold the socket down with all the pressure I could manage, to keep it from tilting as the wrench was turned, so it wouldn't come off the nut. Meanwhile......................................... ......................
I had to give a 3/4 drive breaker bar, with a pipe extension, to K'kins so she could turn the nut while I held the socket. It was a miserable job. Even with the breaker bar, she had to put her back into it to get it to turn. PITA
Naturally, a nut of this type is usually fine thread...............which takes about a bazillion turns to get off
I have this horrible feeling that the gear is a press fit, or at least a very tight interference fit.............WHICH MEANS THIS THING MIGHT HAVE TO BE REMOVED, AND PUT ON A PRESS. Probably weighs close to 150lbs. I might just weld some plates on the deck of the mower, and use the Mother of All Pullers. I might get lucky, and be able to drive the shaft through the gear. All of this to replace a stinkin' seal
Last edited by farmersammm; 08-06-2021 at 11:59 PM.
Reply:First... the stakes I use a very pointy die grinder burr in the keyways to take out the staked threads, Second... if that nut sets the preload on the tapered bearings, I doubt the gear is that tight on the shaft. I deal with that stuff all the time with New Holland swather header drive gearboxes.
Reply:
Originally Posted by 12V71
First... the stakes I use a very pointy die grinder burr in the keyways to take out the staked threads, Second... if that nut sets the preload on the tapered bearings, I doubt the gear is that tight on the shaft. I deal with that stuff all the time with New Holland swather header drive gearboxes.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
I don't know that I'd have the confidence to go into the space between the keyway, and the nut, with a die grinder
. I need to go to Tulsa for some stuff........I'll probably stop by the dealer to take a look at a new nut. I'm betting it's deformed right from the factory, which means it's going to be a bear to get back on. I'd bet they use an impact socket to do these (get them close to where the preload is set). No way the socket I made would stand up to an impact gun.I think you're probably right about the interference fit on the gear. I hope the water contamination didn't rust it to the shaft.Speaking of water...........This gearbox has always been full of water when I get ready to use it once a year maybe. Too much to lay it off on just condensation...........tons of water. I'm thinking I might be looking at a new front input shaft seal too. It's always leaked a bit from the input shaft...................if oil's getting out, water might be getting in.
Reply:I know its a little late to mention this and by dismantling the gear box you can clean/check it properly but I've pulled seals like the one you are working to replace by drilling a small hole in the metal of the seal and using a codged up slide hammer with a sheet metal screw brazed to the end. Just a belated thought.---Meltedmetal
Reply:
Originally Posted by Meltedmetal
I know its a little late to mention this and by dismantling the gear box you can clean/check it properly but I've pulled seals like the one you are working to replace by drilling a small hole in the metal of the seal and using a codged up slide hammer with a sheet metal screw brazed to the end. Just a belated thought.
Reply:everything's on hold anyways, at least for the morning
K'kins is off to Dollar General seeing if they have a carpet cleaner machine for rent
Dog crapped ALL OVER MY GLOBAL TRADING CENTER
WET SLIMEY CRAP.Worst thing..............IT'S MY FAULT. He was wanting out around 4:00AM, and I thought he just wanted to get at the coyotes, and wouldn't let him out
Boy was I wrong
Now he won't come back in the house since she left......................Hell, I don't blame him...........smells like dog crap in here
Reply:
Oh, if only...................................
Oooooomph!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stupid dog musta been turning in a circle while sprayin' it all over the place
Last edited by farmersammm; 08-07-2021 at 10:15 AM.
Reply:Easiest way that I have found to deal with a nut that the threads have ben staked is to simply drill the staked portion out. This removes the deformed material, you just need to go a little bigger in diameter then the deformed area and slightly deeper. Looking a what you are working on I would guess it has been repaired before, typically manufactures that use a lock nut with a lock ring like pictured would not also stake the threads.Mike
Reply:Here’s a serious suggestion:In my part of the world, I’ll bet half the old rotary cutters in existence- including my old 7’ Woods- have had their gearboxes drained and refilled with corn head grease because of a leaky seal. Were it mine, and needing to use it, I’d flush that gearbox with diesel, put that nut back on and stake it, put the cover on, throw a new seal in, fill it up with cornhead grease, and get my mowing done. I don’t use mine that much in the scheme of things- who cares if I need to add a little once in a while?Last edited by Oxford1; 08-07-2021 at 04:56 PM.
Reply:
At least ONE problem solved,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Reply:
Originally Posted by leightrepairs
Easiest way that I have found to deal with a nut that the threads have ben staked is to simply drill the staked portion out. This removes the deformed material, you just need to go a little bigger in diameter then the deformed area and slightly deeper. Looking a what you are working on I would guess it has been repaired before, typically manufactures that use a lock nut with a lock ring like pictured would not also stake the threads.
Reply:The staking damage to the nut didn't make the problem. The nut itself, going on, did the damage. Likewise, it didn't do any more damage coming off.......everything was already ruined. I hate morons. I dunno if my Uncle worked on it, or had his buddy work on it, or took it somewhere...........either way......whoever did it deserves a prize.
Reply:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRKJFPB...ing=UTF8&psc=1 get yourself something like this. Add a thin washer or 2 under the nut, preferably new. This will get you into a better spot on the threads. Being an adjustment nut it's not under a lot of force. Apply some red loctite and should be good for the rest of the machines lifetime. Ideally the shaft would have been longer with more threads and 2 thin nuts with a lock tab like a large trailer spindle would have been a better setup.Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:
Originally Posted by M J D
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRKJFPB...ing=UTF8&psc=1 get yourself something like this. Add a thin washer or 2 under the nut, preferably new. This will get you into a better spot on the threads. Being an adjustment nut it's not under a lot of force. Apply some red loctite and should be good for the rest of the machines lifetime. Ideally the shaft would have been longer with more threads and 2 thin nuts with a lock tab like a large trailer spindle would have been a better setup. |
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发表于 2021-12-19 15:51:30