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I had started a thread about my son's garage, and putting in a new sub panel and rewiring the whole thing, but it was lost in the website crash. I promised some pictures of the new main panel in the house and here they are.I had put a quarter inch plate behind the garage panel to keep pesky siders and other workers from drilling through the box. For the house I used 2 1/2" Ocal Blue PVC coated rigid pipe for the mast. It is going to be a 200 amp service. I put in a Cutler Hammer plug on neutral box, 60 spaces. So far so good, we just have to pull the 4/0 XLP wire now, that should build strong muscles. Especially because they wound it on a small roll at the supply house.
Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:That's gonna be nice with a 200 amp panel. Are you going to run metal conduit ? Sister In Law had a nice big house built and all romex, plastic tube for water, and even plastic gas . So sad to see that stuff but that's the way it is today. I'm old fashioned and the days of real craftsmanship are gone.
Reply:William, bonding lock nuts or bonding bushings on the nipples at the meter pan and the circuit breaker box? Also, ground rods and # 4 copper conductor from these rods to service? Just my thoughts. Must be pretty corrosive environment there to be using Ocal or deep pockets. "Laugh". Bob
Reply:
Originally Posted by BD1
That's gonna be nice with a 200 amp panel. Are you going to run metal conduit? Sister In Law had a nice big house built and all romex, plastic tube for water, and even plastic gas . So sad to see that stuff but that's the way it is today. I'm old fashioned and the days of real craftsmanship are gone.
Reply:
Originally Posted by rhunt
William, bonding lock nuts or bonding bushings on the nipples at the meter pan and the circuit breaker box? Also, ground rods and # 4 copper conductor from these rods to service? Just my thoughts. Must be pretty corrosive environment there to be using Ocal or deep pockets. "Laugh". Bob
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
I am running HCF (Hospital, Care, Facility) cable in the house to deep 1900 boxes. Not really as bad as it sounds it goes quick, and it makes for a nice job. We had to dig up all the cast iron sewage pipe and replace it with new cast iron. But above the floor, we are going to use PVC for drains and vent. We have a copper main, and from there I believe my son is going to run PEX. I do not like the PEX because you can cut it and never know you did. It expands and contracts so much that if it is up against a rough edge it wears through. It can also be eaten by rats, mice and racoons. PEX is a sizoined plastic done in a vacuum by electron beam that turns it into a ceramic, it does not give off chemicals like plastic would. And all the plumbers around here use it now. We also have had some bad experience with copper pipe. The quality of the extrusion is going down and sometimes they start to corrode in a strange way. So it is a tough call. A company here on the island Radiation Dynamics invented the sizoining process over thirty years ago. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:I had to use pex for a leak repair where there is very little room and electrical lines just inches above the water line. I was happy it was an option and easily slips right over the existing copper line. It is holding up for a couple years now. Hopefully I won't have any issues with it.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by BD1
I'm surprised you didn't run PVC underground instead of cast iron. As for copper, you don't want to use it if you have sulfur water. Progress fittings and copper tubing is awesome. No soldering or very little depending on the situation. That PEX is pretty typical today.
Reply:I was by myself, but I was able to push the 4/0 XLP up the mast. I took out the guts of the meter pan, and it went pretty smooth. They had wound the wire on a four inch spool I could not believe it when I saw it. It took me an hour to straighten out the wire. I laid down a big furniture pad so I would not damage the wire on the cement as I was wrestling with it, haha.
Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:I like over kill. Nice.When the power company comes along and feeds that short of a run of 4/0's with a #1 aluminum it is going to make you cry(lol)and make the step up from 2/0 to 4/0 not benefit too much.If it was longer run underground right straight to a transformer you may benefit but a riser not really. Just built a similar service this week and rewired the garage and everything that was gas is now electric. Upgraded for a 60 amp in SE cable to a real 200 amp service and the power company will not even be changing out the old ancient drop that is heavily oxidized and corroded. They came out and said unless you experience problems later that is what will be going back up until then.
Reply:The conductors provided by the power company are in open air and therefore free air circulates around these conductors and keeps them cool, thereby allowing for the smaller size conductors. Bob
Reply:A frozen #1 aluminum in free air would carry only little better than 1/3 of what a 4/0 copper can carry in a black pipe in the sun.The power company doesn't have to abide by NEC ampacity tables. A #1 aluminum is not rated for 200 amps in free air for sure. It is actually 84 amps. A far cry from what a 4/0 copper can carry and a long way from 200 amp also.Last edited by danielplace; 06-08-2018 at 12:47 AM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
I like over kill. Nice.When the power company comes along and feeds that short of a run of 4/0's with a #1 aluminum it is going to make you cry(lol)and make the step up from 2/0 to 4/0 not benefit too much.If it was longer run underground right straight to a transformer you may benefit but a riser not really. Just built a similar service this week and rewired the garage and everything that was gas is now electric. Upgraded for a 60 amp in SE cable to a real 200 amp service and the power company will not even be changing out the old ancient drop that is heavily oxidized and corroded. They came out and said unless you experience problems later that is what will be going back up until then.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
A frozen #1 aluminum in free air would carry only little better than 1/3 of what a 4/0 copper can carry in a black pipe in the sun.The power company doesn't have to abide by NEC ampacity tables. A #1 aluminum is not rated for 200 amps in free air for sure. It is actually 84 amps. A far cry from what a 4/0 copper can carry and a long way from 200 amp also.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
Believe it or not, I was talking to an engineer from the power company, and he said yea, "4/0 is the right wire to carry a load that could supply 200 amps, but we allow 2/0 because it will not be sustained."My thought was the cost difference is very little, I love a quiet panel and we needed 60 positions so 200 amp is the minimum. There will be two heat pumps in the house, so in theory, both can start at the same time, creating one heck of a draw. Add an electric water heater, electric stove, two refrigerators, one freezer, an electric hot tub, and a welder out in the garage, and that panel could see some high amperage. Now if I had 2/0 wire and a problem, the power company says "Well, your wire is a little underrated.", that would burn my biscuits. Now I do not think they can blame us, haha.My coworker just informed me I have to bond the greenfield carrying the #4 to the water main, it never ends haha. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
You really never want the GEC in metal pipe though. You usually want to use PVC or run in free. Many jurisdictions will fail the installation if it is in metal. You can't choke the GEC.
Reply:I thought the only condition when using metal to encase the GEC is that the conduit (carrier tubing) be bonded at the cabinet and termination/grounding electrode or pani bar. That bonding effectively eliminates the choke effect. As long as it intact anyway
.."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:
Originally Posted by Sandy
I thought the only condition when using metal to encase the GEC is that the conduit (carrier tubing) be bonded at the cabinet and termination/grounding electrode or pani bar. That bonding effectively eliminates the choke effect. As long as it intact anyway
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Reply:What's the reason for putting the conduit in before the siding is on?
Reply:
Originally Posted by Aceman
What's the reason for putting the conduit in before the siding is on?
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
If you used squeeze type connector and not a setscrew type on the greenfield it is considered grounded but some inspectors even want it that way at both ends so you would need to somehow bond the connector I guess you just came out of at the water pipe end.… butYou really never want the GEC in metal pipe though. You usually want to use PVC or run in free. Many jurisdictions will fail the installation if it is in metal. You can't choke the GEC.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
If you used squeeze type connector and not a setscrew type on the greenfield it is considered grounded but some inspectors even want it that way at both ends so you would need to somehow bond the connector I guess you just came out of at the water pipe end.… butYou really never want the GEC in metal pipe though. You usually want to use PVC or run in free. Many jurisdictions will fail the installation if it is in metal. You can't choke the GEC.
Reply:What do you think of the square d QO panels?old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:
Originally Posted by mad welder 4
What do you think of the square d QO panels?
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
So we can take out the old meter pan and old run to the garage as well as the temporary mast. Now they can side away.
Originally Posted by danielplace
I think he means how are they going to do a nice job and install the siding properly and easily with the riser and straps in the way. Even the LB and all that I also would have thought you would want to do after the siding. So you can hole saw through it and it be nice and neat.That won't make it a lot more difficult to do a proper job on the siding ?Are you just trying to get power released to new service without a final so you can use it for temp power ?
Reply:This is a picture of the top mount it is chiseled into the wood.
Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:The lower blocks are 1 1/4" thick, and the lowest block is 1 7/8" thick. The hub exits the meter pan at a different level than at the top of the meter pan. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:I was already checking out your strapping blocks you made. Nice job.Thanks for showing full detail.I have a lot of appreciation for a job well done.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
That number one aluminum wire is not current limited, that is why it works. If you put a 200 amp circuit breaker at the pole it would not work. I do not know if you have ever seen an old drop do the bandolero firecracker thing. But it is pretty impressive it can go for hours. The snap you get is not like the snap you get after a 200 amp breaker. After the breaker can be bad, but different from before the breaker. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Oh definitely unfused anything is capable of putting on a show. The #1 aluminum is the current limiter and that is precisely why it is used. Rather than have load side protection they use wire that doesn't have enough in it to take out the transformer if something goes to ground or phase to phase. The protection for that is the transformers primary fuse that would be blown if the fault didn't clear itself from the excessive current available.Not being current limited does nothing to keep the voltage at 240 when/if you ever had a 200 amp draw. It all depends on how long the drop is and if it is even going straight to a transformer and not just lines strung on the poles with the transformer several doors down that will determine just how bad the voltage will drop under a full load.
Reply:Connected up the new panel today, and my son then made quick work of the old breaker box, wire, and mast. We are ready to side the house now. My son and daughter in law took me out for a great breakfast, then we worked and then my daughter in law who is seven months pregnant, had dinner waiting for us when we were done. What a great day. God was good to me today.
Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:Finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
That is me doing some framing, I just do not remember it hurting so much the next day, haha.
It is coming along nicely. How is everyone here doing?Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:The face lift looks nice.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:What's the manhole and vent in front of the house? Sewage pump?
Reply:
Originally Posted by Virgil5
What's the manhole and vent in front of the house? Sewage pump?
Reply:We got the rough inspection and waiting on an insulation inspection for the downstairs. Then we will make quick work of the rest of it. We really did away with a lot of the rework on this house and the "I wish we would have" They come this week I believe for the insulation inspection.
We put in rough house boxes for the switch boxes, so nice to wire in there. You can almost climb in there, haha. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:So glad I put the 1/4" steel plate behind the panel, these breakers get warm, I do not want to say hot, but very warm. The steel plate eats up the heat nicely as well as protects the back of the box. All the twenty amp circuits in the house are ARC fault and ground fault. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:You can see in the picture under the rough house box, that we used a plastic bag to suck the dragline, it worked really well. We could have snaked it but that is a lot of work.
Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:Wow hospital grade MC??Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Did you just install a few switches for convenience or are you planning to trim the whole house before drywall?Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:
Originally Posted by bigb
Did you just install a few switches for convenience or are you planning to trim the whole house before drywall?
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Saw that. He must have a plan. Usually a mistake putting anything in for sure. You may install a few $.50 switches or plugs to turn on a circuit if you get early power release but never the final devices as they will ruin the job. You can't cut and install the drywall tight to the ring with device ears you want on the surface of the wall with their ears in the way. They would all be loose and no support behind anything. Surely they will get drywall mud and paint on them somehow.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
They will run the screws out and then put the outlets and switches back. It is all ARC and ground fault what could go wrong?Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by bigb
Wow hospital grade MC??
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Saw that. He must have a plan. Usually a mistake putting anything in for sure. You may install a few $.50 switches or plugs to turn on a circuit if you get early power release but never the final devices as they will ruin the job. You can't cut and install the drywall tight to the ring with device ears you want on the surface of the wall with their ears in the way. They would all be loose and no support behind anything. Surely they will get drywall mud and paint on them somehow.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
They will run the screws out and then put the outlets and switches back. It is all ARC and ground fault what could go wrong?Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by bigb
They will have a tough time texturing/finishing around them and it will show. With no devices in the way they can make a nice smooth swipe over the entire box with the blade, and the surface will be flat and even and the devices and wall plates will sit nicely against the finished product. With the devices and wiring in the way they won't be able to swipe a blade across the box, not only will your wall plates and devices not sit flat to the wall, but your devices will get slopped up with mud and the finish around the boxes will suffer.Also most drywallers put the sheet up first then they cut the openings, usually with a Rotozip.
Reply:
Originally Posted by ronsii
This is the smart way to do it
Been on quite a few jobs trying to isolate wiring problems cause someone wanted to make it 'easier' for hose-a and hose-b to slap up the rock cause all they know how to run is a rotozip
as for the mud people we just go to the grocery store and buy a box of sandwich baggies and we're good to go!!! Now you have a house that everything works in without having to start hacking holes in the walls!!!
Reply:The last 'errors' I found and had to fix(by hacking holes in the finished walls) were caused by speedy gonzales the cable guy
great guy!!!, fast!!!! and only charged the home owner 500 buck$ to 'completely wire the house for video
what could go wrong???? Well I'm glad you asked
... for starters the guy was so fast he didn't even have to check the back side of studs he drilled through to see how many wires got skinned/cut by the bit
Some of the 'errors' were neutrals severed by the nice cable guy
one was a hot... and these were the only ones I found because things would not work... who knows how many others were nicked or grounds severed... and no I wasn't going to meter check every friggen wire in the place. And to top it all off the home owner is all over me complaining that he is going to see the patches!!! after I fix the wires... Oh!!!! and there's more to the story
once I get all the errors fixed and working he has the dish company come out to install his tv system.... and they can't put his dish or receivers where he wants them because the 'cable guy' wired the house cable style(big loop) instead of dish style(multi homed run) so he calls me over to see if I can fix it??? all this after he even told the guy he was putting in satellite dish and the 'expert' cable guy said 'no problemO' |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:18:18