Circuit and breaker size for Lincoln 360 MP?

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I am new to the forum and am about to purchase a Lincoln Power Mig 360 MP. I have 230 volt, single phase being installed in my garage on a dedicated 125 amp sub-panel. I read in the lincoln owner manual for this unit that it specifies an "Effective Input Amperes" for a 230V circuit single phase power source of 50 amps. Below this the manual then says Recommended Input Wire and Fuse / Single Phase and lists a table with the following:Maximum Input Ampere and Duty Cycle - 230/1/50/60 = 83A, 40% (@350amps welder output). The Fuse/Breaker Size is specified at 90A. Extra Hard Usage Input cord is specified at 6. Is it safe to assume:1 - short extension cord (25 feet) should be 6 guage wire2 - to achieve full output of welder, I need a 50 amp circuit breaker (and associated wire between the subpanel and the receptacle.  I had a friend tell me that the 83A rating would be if all the amperage had to go through a single leg of the two hot wires in a 230 v lot circuit.Given the specification that effective input amperes are rated at 50, can I use a 50 amp breaker and still get the rated 360 amp output, as the first table seems to indicate?  Also, if the 50 amp circuit breaker is not what the machine needs, are there receptacles for 90 amp circuits or will I be required to hard wire the unit to the wall/panel, with possibly a wall disconnect switch. Thanks in advance for any advice!
Reply:The book answered your question, your friend is incorrect. Maximum Input Ampere and Duty Cycle - 230/1/50/60 = 83A, 40% (@350amps welder output). The Fuse/Breaker Size is specified at 90A
Reply:OK, so plan on a 90Amp breaker.  Thanks for the quick response!  Final question, given the amperage rating of the breaker and the lines to the receptacle, are there 90 amp rated outlets for plugs or do I plan to hard wire the welder to the wall?
Reply:The cost of a 100 amp plug is very high plus the cost wire.I would look at 60 amp plug and wore is a lot lower. I would use slow blow fuses. Breaker will trip faster than a slow blow fuses.Dave

Originally Posted by Chris H

I am new to the forum and am about to purchase a Lincoln Power Mig 360 MP. I have 230 volt, single phase being installed in my garage on a dedicated 125 amp sub-panel. I read in the lincoln owner manual for this unit that it specifies an "Effective Input Amperes" for a 230V circuit single phase power source of 50 amps. Below this the manual then says Recommended Input Wire and Fuse / Single Phase and lists a table with the following:Maximum Input Ampere and Duty Cycle - 230/1/50/60 = 83A, 40% (@350amps welder output). The Fuse/Breaker Size is specified at 90A. Extra Hard Usage Input cord is specified at 6. Is it safe to assume:1 - short extension cord (25 feet) should be 6 guage wire2 - to achieve full output of welder, I need a 50 amp circuit breaker (and associated wire between the subpanel and the receptacle.  I had a friend tell me that the 83A rating would be if all the amperage had to go through a single leg of the two hot wires in a 230 v lot circuit.Given the specification that effective input amperes are rated at 50, can I use a 50 amp breaker and still get the rated 360 amp output, as the first table seems to indicate?  Also, if the 50 amp circuit breaker is not what the machine needs, are there receptacles for 90 amp circuits or will I be required to hard wire the unit to the wall/panel, with possibly a wall disconnect switch. Thanks in advance for any advice!
Reply:Dave, thanks!  You mentioned a 60 amp plug but should I go ahead and fuse it for the 90 amps?  The wiring in the wall will be safe (as I'll run it to code for the 90 amp circuit) but will I potentially fry my plug if I run the welder at its max duty cycle for some of the heavy plate welding I'll be doing?  I'll be welding 1/2" and 3/4" plate a fair bit and will probably be switching between Mig and stick depending on the application.   I heard the cord to the actual welder uses #6 wire (not sure if that is right but think I also saw this in the manual) and someone told me that they can do this because of the duty cycle being 60% at 330 amps.  Seems to make sense but I am definitely not an electrician!  Thanks again.
Reply:The slow blow fuses can take a 3X load for about 20 seconds.So a 60 amp would hold a current at 180 amps for 20 seconds. I do not have charts for slow blow fuses on welders.But shops in the 1950's and 1960's would use this trick for there welders. Dave

Originally Posted by Chris H

I am new to the forum and am about to purchase a Lincoln Power Mig 360 MP. I have 230 volt, single phase being installed in my garage on a dedicated 125 amp sub-panel. I read in the lincoln owner manual for this unit that it specifies an "Effective Input Amperes" for a 230V circuit single phase power source of 50 amps. Below this the manual then says Recommended Input Wire and Fuse / Single Phase and lists a table with the following:Maximum Input Ampere and Duty Cycle - 230/1/50/60 = 83A, 40% (@350amps welder output). The Fuse/Breaker Size is specified at 90A. Extra Hard Usage Input cord is specified at 6. Is it safe to assume:1 - short extension cord (25 feet) should be 6 guage wire2 - to achieve full output of welder, I need a 50 amp circuit breaker (and associated wire between the subpanel and the receptacle.  I had a friend tell me that the 83A rating would be if all the amperage had to go through a single leg of the two hot wires in a 230 v lot circuit.Given the specification that effective input amperes are rated at 50, can I use a 50 amp breaker and still get the rated 360 amp output, as the first table seems to indicate?  Also, if the 50 amp circuit breaker is not what the machine needs, are there receptacles for 90 amp circuits or will I be required to hard wire the unit to the wall/panel, with possibly a wall disconnect switch. Thanks in advance for any advice!
Reply:Thanks!  Very helpful indeed.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Chris H

Dave, thanks!  You mentioned a 60 amp plug but should I go ahead and fuse it for the 90 amps?  The wiring in the wall will be safe (as I'll run it to code for the 90 amp circuit) but will I potentially fry my plug if I run the welder at its max duty cycle for some of the heavy plate welding I'll be doing?  I'll be welding 1/2" and 3/4" plate a fair bit and will probably be switching between Mig and stick depending on the application.   I heard the cord to the actual welder uses #6 wire (not sure if that is right but think I also saw this in the manual) and someone told me that they can do this because of the duty cycle being 60% at 330 amps.  Seems to make sense but I am definitely not an electrician!  Thanks again.
Reply:I will definitely have a licensed electrician do the install and will put the manual in front of him before he does so.  Just talked to one:  He confirmed that a 90 amp circuit is what the welder requires to get full amperage capacity and duty cycles out of it and that is the way I will have it wired up.  Can't wait to get it all in place and to be able to use the full output without any worries about burning my house down.  Thanks all for the input.
Reply:Most license electricians go to a electric engineer. Most of today's engineers have little data for this application. You someone that work in the 1950's witch how I came by the information using time delay fuses.Odds are they retire 40 years Dave

Originally Posted by kize

I would suggest you talk to a licensed electrician verses getting advice from a welding forum or from " someone told me". The manual provides the info you need to make it work.Anyone can hook up wires and install a breaker. Whether you destroy a welder, electrocute yourself or burn down a structure due to poor info, its on you. No offense to the members here but from what you have said so far, hire a licensed person that does this kind of stuff for a living.
Reply:The breaker is safety all that happen is breaker would flipI would ask him about time delay fuses protection.This is what use for motors for starting load and for buss boxs as breakers would flip.Dave

Originally Posted by Chris H

I will definitely have a licensed electrician do the install and will put the manual in front of him before he does so.  Just talked to one:  He confirmed that a 90 amp circuit is what the welder requires to get full amperage capacity and duty cycles out of it and that is the way I will have it wired up.  Can't wait to get it all in place and to be able to use the full output without any worries about burning my house down.  Thanks all for the input.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Chris H

I will definitely have a licensed electrician do the install and will put the manual in front of him before he does so.  Just talked to one:  He confirmed that a 90 amp circuit is what the welder requires to get full amperage capacity and duty cycles out of it and that is the way I will have it wired up.  Can't wait to get it all in place and to be able to use the full output without any worries about burning my house down.  Thanks all for the input.
Reply:William, thank you.  Sounds like you are running a similar amp rated machine.  I will wire it for the 90 amps and use the two gage wire for the extension cord and a basket, as you suggest.  Now I need to source the monster plugs! Do you remember where you got your plugs?  I will call a local electrical supply house to see if they stock them.
Reply:easy google search

https://www.elecdirect.com/pin-sleev...YaAhWDEALw_wcBhttps://www.elecdirect.com/pin-sleev...-page-product1Or just get the Pro Pulse 300 that you were asking about, and run it off a regular 50A 6-50 style plug/receptacle.  

Last edited by Oscar; 10-04-2020 at 10:21 AM.

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Reply:

Originally Posted by Chris H

William, thank you.  Sounds like you are running a similar amp rated machine.  I will wire it for the 90 amps and use the two gage wire for the extension cord and a basket, as you suggest.  Now I need to source the monster plugs! Do you remember where you got your plugs?  I will call a local electrical supply house to see if they stock them.
Reply:Only problem with hard wiring is you must have a disconnect at the cord connection.If you want a plug look up Meltric plugs they have both a receptacle and a disconnect all in one unit.
Reply:Thanks for the tip!  I got ahold of the manual and note that the machine is wired with a 50 AMP 3-prong plug.  Interesting to see this since the manual notes a max current of 83 amps.  Must be for very short durations.  I just wired my garage and wired up a dedicated 100 amp circuit with 2 gauge wire and 100 amp breaker in a new sub panel.  I also have a 50 amp circuit wired up with standard 6 gauge wire.  I think I am set for any eventuality now and have the second circuit for a dedicated tig machine.  I think I will save my pennies for the Miller dynasty 400 for that circuit.  In the mean time, I will have plenty of fun with the Lincoln 360 MP!  Can’t wait to order it.  I think I can pull the trigger now that I have the dedicated circuits all wired up.  Will post pictures as soon as I have it all hooked up.
Reply:

Originally Posted by ccawgc

Only problem with hard wiring is you must have a disconnect at the cord connection.If you want a plug look up Meltric plugs they have both a receptacle and a disconnect all in one unit.
Reply:yeah, my sub-panel will be 2 feet behind the welder and unobstructedk for easy access.  I think I will go with that option.  My circuit is wired with 2 gauge wire and protected with a 100 amp breaker, so I should have adequate protection and capacity in the wire for any likely current draw.  I can readily wire in a disconnect if I want to have the extra assurance.  Will keep that in my back pocket.
Reply:I have the Lincoln 350MP and had the Lincoln Precision TIG 275. I just hard wired in an 80amp breaker and proper sized wire. Never had an issue. But as someone has already stated, a 50Amp outlet can be derated for welder use. Usually must be labeled for inspection purposes. Also, if you want to get fancy, look up Appleton 100 Amp connectors. We used them at work. Sit down before you look at the price.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain