Building up base, machining/tapping weld metal?

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I am looking at making some manifolds and one idea is to use thinner metal then beef up the area around the ports so I can drill and tap with more "meat" than what would be thin without building up. From what I know trying to cut welds with bimetal reciprocating blades is the base metal is soft and the weld is super hard = dulls blades. That is going to pose a problem for drilling and tapping.Is there a rod that would be ideal for this? Base metal is A36. I am contemplating sourcing some 60601 aluminum instead, if I did I would just go thicker and not mess with building up around the port, but I have suitable A36 here already.
Reply:How are you planning to drill and tap... because yes it will cause problems unless you prep for it.  Sent from my SM-G960U using TapatalkI haven't built anything I can't throw away.  Perfection is the journey.    Mac
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Originally Posted by FlyFishn

I am looking at making some manifolds and one idea is to use thinner metal then beef up the area around the ports
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Originally Posted by Mac's Crew

How are you planning to drill and tap... because yes it will cause problems unless you prep for it.
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave

In my opinion, this is the wrong idea.Use a nice thick piece and then don't worry about it


Reply:A bit of clarification on type and size of manifold might help. Intake or exhaust manifold for an engine and if so, what size.Water distribution manifold and what size and number or type of ports. Plus water preasure.Air distribution manifold. What pressure, number of ports EtcEtcSent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkMillermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Your welds and the area around it will be hard and brittle. Use a heavy cutting oil and a tap guide like this.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CSRBPXZ...G3TVMAN4WK0V74This will help stay straight, I would also suggest not going more than 1/4 turn before backing off to allow chips to fall.Sent from my SM-G960U using TapatalkI haven't built anything I can't throw away.  Perfection is the journey.    Mac
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Originally Posted by psacustomcreations

A bit of clarification on type and size of manifold might help. Intake or exhaust manifold for an engine and if so, what size.Water distribution manifold and what size and number or type of ports. Plus water preasure.Air distribution manifold. What pressure, number of ports EtcEtc
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Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Intake manifolds for between 3-4hp or so up to 22hp. They will mount under carbs. Gas injection (LP/NG). So a large intake port (throttle body diameter) and a small gas port. When the carb is pushed out so is everything attached to it, or that the carb sits between.Not sure how that helps answer the question of building up material with weld metal and drilling/tapping.
Reply:I must be missing something here. Just get threaded NPT bungs and weld them in. Look at McMaster or other supply. Even ebay has threaded NPT bungs and they are super cheap.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
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Originally Posted by albrightree

I think because many people here may have built something like the device you're making, we're all trying to parse out what seem like a riddle to us, although its clear as day to you.
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Originally Posted by albrightree

Aren't most manifolds aluminum anyway ?
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Originally Posted by albrightree

Drawing or picture would certainly help.
Reply:If the small engine(s) need a new manifold, what shape is the rest of the engine(s) in? Seems like  it's not a project worth pursuing.
Reply:Re-read my post again. I never stated you need any kind of machine tooling or equipment. These are threaded NPT bungs where you just weld them on/in with a fillet weld. You could prob even find a NPT connector at the big box stores, cut it down a little and weld that on/in the hole. Of course you need to make the hole but you knew that. You could have purchased them on McMaster yesterday, had them at your door step today and welded them on by the end of the day. We are all telling you this route because building up a weld and trying to drill and tap it will cause frustration and broken bits and taps, let alone look like monkey turds. We have been there and done this. If you are hell bent on welding up a pile and drilling and tapping so be it. We told you so.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
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Originally Posted by FlyFishn

I am looking at making some manifolds...
Reply:The best metal for manifolds is stainless steel. I weld use 304 stainless it will polish too. I have made from A36 as low cost in my shop and was tractors and no one care if it had rust.The worst part is jigging up for  milling. After first time I bolt flanges in place and welded tubing in place. A ligh sanding on belt sander it was done and no milling and fast.Dave

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

I am looking at making some manifolds and one idea is to use thinner metal then beef up the area around the ports so I can drill and tap with more "meat" than what would be thin without building up. From what I know trying to cut welds with bimetal reciprocating blades is the base metal is soft and the weld is super hard = dulls blades. That is going to pose a problem for drilling and tapping.Is there a rod that would be ideal for this? Base metal is A36. I am contemplating sourcing some 60601 aluminum instead, if I did I would just go thicker and not mess with building up around the port, but I have suitable A36 here already.
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Originally Posted by Kelvin


Lookout for Mister ShrinkWarp!
Reply:In all seriousness,,pass on making the part out of metal, use some other material that you can work using woodworking tools.All of the guys that run tractor-pulling tractors make such manifold extensions,,They specifically do not want metal, so as to not conduct heat.Maybe carbon-fiber, Kevlar, some other composite?Is heat conduction a concern to you like the tractor guys??

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Reply:Got some parts in. It looks like 1/4" NPT will still have sufficient bite in to the manifolds without the build-up. Again, the port is for real low pressure so the threads aren't holding back much force at all. The threads probably will have more force on them from the hose hanging there vibrating than what goes through it. I haven't finished shaping the manifolds yet, just the blanks.


Reply:Guess you said your good now but in the future I would rethink ever planning on adding weld so it will be thicker to drill and tap as that not something that should be part of any original plan that much is for certain.

Originally Posted by Kelvin


Lookout for Mister ShrinkWarp!
Reply:Just put a 3/8 pipe to 1/8" pipe adapter just before you go in the manifold plate. Quite certain it would flow enough fuel through that short of a restriction to feed a pretty good size industrial gas engine.The 1/8" pipe thread should go in 1/2" thick edge just barely. Never seen fuel inlet ported through the manifold. That is kinda odd setup. How does it get to the fuel bowl from there. Takes a 90° turn and comes out face of the plate and into the carb.Last edited by danielplace; 05-19-2021 at 03:57 PM.
Reply:Center punching the cut line on a very crude outline? Slightly warm the piece (get the moisture out) before you use soapstone and it will stay on better. I usually run the torch over the cut line before cutting to also help the soapstone line remain. (it also makes sure you can move the torch freely for the cut)  It helps in my experience. When cutting you almost never cut in the middle of the line. You cut on one side of it so the piece is the right size and not too small or too large. Have seen lots of newbies want to cut a flat bar into equal length pieces only to end up with all of them too short. You have to allow for the width of the kerf (cut width). Usually about 1/16" but depends on steel thickness. Torch cutting 101 for today.Last edited by Welder Dave; 05-19-2021 at 03:57 PM.
Reply:Thanks for the insight Dave. I used pencil to stencil the intake dimensions/shapes. So I simply transferred the outline from the stencil outline by nicking the plate with a punch. It works fine for what I am after. The only dimensions that are important are the mounting holes, port for the fuel inlet, and the intake hole. In that order of importance. I drilled the intake hole on this one with a 3/4" bit. That is a tad under-size for the dimensions of the original intake, but the throttle adjusts for the run speed anyway so I am confident I still have enough volume of air to get through there. Actually, the slight restriction will assist in drawing fuel from the port as that works on vacuum - the more the engine is producing power, the more draw through the intake, the more vacuum, and the more fuel is dispensed from the regulator up stream. There is a flow control valve down stream of the regulator that adjusts the fuel/air ratio also - it isn't simply the one regulator alone. The mix has to be tuned - and that mix changes with the fuel (NG vs LP).


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Originally Posted by danielplace

Never seen fuel inlet ported through the manifold. That is kinda odd setup. How does it get to the fuel bowl from there. Takes a 90° turn and comes out face of the plate and into the carb.Getting closer... I need to track down a 1/4" NPT tap. I have a 1/8" and something seems to hit me that I bought a 1/4" NPT a couple years ago so I need to dig a bit in my stuff boxes to see if I can find it. There is plenty of meat on either side of the side port for threading. Again, it will not be subject to much pressure at all. I am not sure how much more clean up I'll do on the shape of the manifold - it doesnt matter. All that matters is the placement of the holes (I'll flush it pretty good to degrease and get the chips out from inside etc).



Reply:I found a tap the right size. I thought I bought one for a project about 3-4 years ago and ended up not using it. So I dug for it a bit and I found it. The tap worked OK - I didn't chip any teeth. It was a slow boat to China to get through carefully but it worked - with oil every so often and lots of backing out to clear chips. I think it will hold up for round 2 for the bigger manifold next, not sure when I'll get to it but I'm getting there slowly.


These are all the local pieces in the set up. The hose will be shortened to what I need for the unit. The supply hose connects to the union (that is the larger female thread you see on the stack coming off the pancake regulator).


Reply:Not sure what you are making But this stuff works great on tapered threads....I never use teflon tape anymore.

.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
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Originally Posted by John T

Not sure what you are making But this stuff works great on tapered threads....I never use teflon tape anymore.

.
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Originally Posted by danielplace

Just don't use it on pool equipment/chlorine or you will have more leaks than you can shake a stick at. One case where tape is best.