|
|
I messed up in life and had to get a whole new career for myself. So i chose something that interested me, WELDING. The state of idaho agreed i needed a new 'career' and paid for 1yr of classes. Unfortunately, they picked a place that the guy had an 'issue' teaching women. He wasn't opposed to 'teaching' me, but God forbid i needed extra time with him for this/that..whatever. He basically got me thru the year with my MIG, FLUX, STICK cert, and some weld blueprints, and poof-out the door i went. Now i feel like a freaking moron because today i went to apply (weld test etc) at a fence machine shop, and when he asked me a simple math question-i froze up like a deer in headlights. Oh, make no mistake, i can weld real purty, i can swirl that bead, make it dance if ya want, but math????? pffffffffffffft... yeah, not so much. I have googled this and that, and ended up with 20 open tabs. I even tried my local library for a math/welder book. I need info on the RIGHT BOOK. I dont want to learn 'if sally traded jim 4 apples and 1 orange bullcrap'.. i want/need a REAL book on 'if you get 30 orders for backing bars, how many'..you get the idea. It's already bad enough im an older gal (45yr) trying to penetrate a man's world, much less looking like i dont know crap because of a math issue. I sure wish that dingleberry teacher of mine took me serious. ANY SUGGESTION?
Reply:
Originally Posted by igobyharris
I messed up in life and had to get a whole new career for myself. So i chose something that interested me, WELDING. The state of idaho agreed i needed a new 'career' and paid for 1yr of classes. Unfortunately, they picked a place that the guy had an 'issue' teaching women. He wasn't opposed to 'teaching' me, but God forbid i needed extra time with him for this/that..whatever. He basically got me thru the year with my MIG, FLUX, STICK cert, and some weld blueprints, and poof-out the door i went. Now i feel like a freaking moron because today i went to apply (weld test etc) at a fence machine shop, and when he asked me a simple math question-i froze up like a deer in headlights. Oh, make no mistake, i can weld real purty, i can swirl that bead, make it dance if ya want, but math????? pffffffffffffft... yeah, not so much. I have googled this and that, and ended up with 20 open tabs. I even tried my local library for a math/welder book. I need info on the RIGHT BOOK. I dont want to learn 'if sally traded jim 4 apples and 1 orange bullcrap'.. i want/need a REAL book on 'if you get 30 orders for backing bars, how many'..you get the idea. It's already bad enough im an older gal (45yr) trying to penetrate a man's world, much less looking like i dont know crap because of a math issue. I sure wish that dingleberry teacher of mine took me serious. ANY SUGGESTION?
Reply:What was the question?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:This ain't exactly Wizard of OZ stuff, but the fix is likely that simple. I had a long series of dud teachers in math through school. I skipped 4th, had a man who wasn't cut out for teaching in 5th. 6,7,8 The math/science teacher only understood book math, no real world math. Science, he was utterly confused! 9th, the teacher had a breakdown early in the year. After a sub two weeks, he returned. I believe he was on strong prescription drugs. Algebra 2, the teacher was flamboyantly gay. It was a liberal school board in a liberal town. I was (in 1971 less enlightened than now). He hated me, I returned the sentiment.Junior year of high school, I met a great math teacher. I learned more that year than any year other! The class was Geometry. I loved it, got A's all year.Math is easy with a teacher, who can translate it into life. Find a teacher. You'll pick it up fast. I now drive down the road doing complex calculations in my head, figuring voltage loss, de rate factors for conductors in conduit, how many sheets of metal will be needed for a 300 gallon sap tank, etc.Is there a forum for those struggling with math?WillieAn optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Exactly. What was the question ? Cut seven equal pieces out of a 20 footer and allow for the blade thickness ? If you can't something handle that simple equation you need a GED, not a welding hood.Maybe a line job welding a frism to a frasm 200 times a day ?
Reply:A mastery of decimals and fractions and the conversion of one to the other along with some basic knowledge of plane geometry will go a long ways in your trade. I never could get the hang of algebra so it's been a challenge throughout my life. The book sounds like something you should print or buy and read it cover to cover several times. Yes, you could weld on a production line to put some $$ in the bank while self educating yourself. Just don't become complacent with it and decide you want to do it the rest of your life. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I struggled with math in high school but once I got into the machine shop everything changed. When started using math daily it started to click. I could see the problem and how to figure it out and how to prove my answer was correct. Now I'm like Wille B just doing it in my head on the fly. Get a fraction to decimal chart and learn it starting with 1/2 1/4's 1/8's and work smaller as you pick it up. Get a tape measure and learn it down to 1/16ths. (this is not math it should be just like reading)Teach yourself to skip count... count by twos threes etc up to twelve. Twelves are important when working with feet and inches. 12,24,36,48,60,72,84,96,108,120,132,144There is no shame in carrying a calculator. It will help if you struggle with accuracy. Eventually you will start doing simpler stuff in your head because its faser than typing it into the calculator.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:What was the question????Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:I'm too old to use a phone for everything. You aren't. I bet there is an app for that.WillieAn optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I work with people that are really smart. They seem to "learn" the first time they see something. For me (and most people I believe) I learn by repetition. My advise : go to the library and check out math books. Read them and do the questions. Start at a 1st grade math book if you have to. In a couple of years you will be checking out algebra books.I am currently using this method to learn German. But it is hard to find children's books in German here in the USA. So I am reading stuff on the internet. It's mostly frustrating, but if I am persistent eventually I realize I am learning something.Century buzzbox that I learned on 40+ years ago (was Dad's)Crappy Century 110volt mig 70 amp pigeon pooper.Lincoln Idealarc TIG-300
Reply:
Originally Posted by Bonzoo
Exactly. What was the question ? Cut seven equal pieces out of a 20 footer and allow for the blade thickness ? If you can't something handle that simple equation you need a GED, not a welding hood.Maybe a line job welding a frism to a frasm 200 times a day ?
Reply:igobyharris - I teach math (and welding and woodshop) and I would recommend one of the programs I use with some students.google: Khan Academy-It's free-It goes at your own pace-You can choose topics and grade levels to study-The questions include hints to click on and videos to click on-It also makes a nice smiley face and a pleasing "ding" when you get stuff right
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
That is not just math that is real world understanding. You have to subtract six blade cuts, from 240 inches. And then divide by 7 pieces. But most and I mean most guys mess that up real well. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
I know guys who mess that up super well
I also work with some special Ed kids that can do that in their head almost before the question is finished being asked....math is funny that way...
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
Even if you are some sort of super mathematician you just cannot apply the math, until you have lived the reality, and gain some understanding of the reality of it. Then you can see how reality messes up the simplicity that most math teachers teach. Science teachers too. Most math teachers always try to race for the right answer, which to me is a sign that they are not that good. Or need to show off their speed. I tend to wait till I understand it some. And if I have to take a guess I will let you know it is just a guess. Most math teachers think they know it and even reality does not change their mind. I know you always take your time and come up with very correct answers. Which I certainly appreciate. You are an alien math teacher. I bet your students are prepared for the real world. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:I used to baffle the young guys on the job when I'd figure the number of feet in a roll of conveyor belting without unrolling it. That's another reality William was talking about. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Harris,DO NOT LET THIS GET YOU DOWN.I personally love math and real world engineering problems, others (many) not so much. My wife, hates it and tells all the kids, "Go ask your dad." And yet she as an optician has to deal with weird math that I don't understand about optics and your prescription to make a pair of glasses like optical power, cylinder, axis, and some other jargon that I don't get. But that's because I have no need for that stuff and never will. But when it comes to math in the school books she just "doesn't get it". Some of the MOST TALENTED people I know at everyday mathematics are carpenters and machinists who can do it in their head all day long because of PRACTICE for years. Those are the same people who the teachin lady in skool said would be failures. If you haven't ever had to do it you CAN. It's just something new to learn. Decimals, fractions, conversion from metric to standard, etc all look like a foreign language if you have never been taught because it is. Math is just another language like music (which I have NO understanding of) or English. Just like before you ever picked up a stinger and hood if someone gave you one on the first day expecting you to stack dimes, you would have failed miserably.Look through PeteS's link. Good stuff right there. I'm glad he shared that. I'm going to start going through some of that stuff with my youngest son (10) who really hates math but has the knack for all things mechanical, building, welding, machinery, farming, etc. He can swing a hammer, run a tractor, stick weld with 7018, fit plumbing pipe, rip wood on a table saw, hunt, fish and trap. My middle son just "gets" abstract math easily and at the same time has ZERO interest in using his hands for anything that doesn't involve a ball. Hopefully my mechanic son will see why I am trying to help him understand math with PeteS's link. PRACTICAL applications...YOU CAN DO IT.(edit & confession) Harris, you've sparked me to go back and conquer MY math failure. I never did finish my engineering degree 20 years ago. The more advanced math upper level Calculus, differential equations and other "advanced" crazy math classes was a sore spot along with other youthful issues. I'm going to go back and slay that dragon. I signed up with Kahn Academy.Last edited by xryan; 03-09-2017 at 03:14 AM.Reason: confessionRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:If you start at the appropriate level, and are determined enough, you can teach yourself math. But it is all in how determined you are. I taught myself Calculus before I took a course on it. The key thing is that I taught myself at the appropriate time when I was mathematically ready for it, meaning: I had all the background knowledge for it, and was efficient at using it. Don't try to learn Trigonometry before you know how to do the 4 basic math operations and can recite many, many multiplication tables, and their inverses, division. Etc. etc.
Originally Posted by xryan
YOU CAN DO IT.(edit & confession) Harris, you've sparked me to go back and conquer MY math failure. I never did finish my engineering degree 20 years ago. The more advanced math upper level Calculus, differential equations and other "advanced" crazy math classes was a sore spot along with other youthful issues. I'm going to go back and slay that dragon. I signed up with Kahn Academy.
Reply:A roll of wire is average .85 cubits (Estimated) in diameter(15") x 3.1416, (pie) x # of turns x 1.5, (a cubit is 1.5 feet). Noah's cubit was 1.5 feet, or 18" Mine is 18.5 inches. By today's standards I am near dwarf.4' per typical turn, x number of turns. I up, or down by the cubit estimate. In a 100 foot coil, I may be off by three feet. I do it all the time. No such thing as a cable scrap.WillieAn optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:forget all that complicated math cr@p. learn how to read a ruler and basic shop math. for the fancy stuff use a pocket calculator.
i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:
Originally Posted by xryan
Harris,DO NOT LET THIS GET YOU DOWN.I personally love math and real world engineering problems, others (many) not so much. My wife, hates it and tells all the kids, "Go ask your dad." And yet she as an optician has to deal with weird math that I don't understand about optics and your prescription to make a pair of glasses like optical power, cylinder, axis, and some other jargon that I don't get. But that's because I have no need for that stuff and never will. But when it comes to math in the school books she just "doesn't get it". Some of the MOST TALENTED people I know at everyday mathematics are carpenters and machinists who can do it in their head all day long because of PRACTICE for years. Those are the same people who the teachin lady in skool said would be failures. If you haven't ever had to do it you CAN. It's just something new to learn. Decimals, fractions, conversion from metric to standard, etc all look like a foreign language if you have never been taught because it is. Math is just another language like music (which I have NO understanding of) or English. Just like before you ever picked up a stinger and hood if someone gave you one on the first day expecting you to stack dimes, you would have failed miserably.Look through PeteS's link. Good stuff right there. I'm glad he shared that. I'm going to start going through some of that stuff with my youngest son (10) who really hates math but has the knack for all things mechanical, building, welding, machinery, farming, etc. He can swing a hammer, run a tractor, stick weld with 7018, fit plumbing pipe, rip wood on a table saw, hunt, fish and trap. My middle son just "gets" abstract math easily and at the same time has ZERO interest in using his hands for anything that doesn't involve a ball. Hopefully my mechanic son will see why I am trying to help him understand math with PeteS's link. PRACTICAL applications...YOU CAN DO IT.(edit & confession) Harris, you've sparked me to go back and conquer MY math failure. I never did finish my engineering degree 20 years ago. The more advanced math upper level Calculus, differential equations and other "advanced" crazy math classes was a sore spot along with other youthful issues. I'm going to go back and slay that dragon. I signed up with Kahn Academy.
Reply:Go to your local college/university Math department and talk to the Math Club and ask to be tutored. Another option, if you attend church ask to be tutored on math. As docwelder said, learn ruler/measuring tape.
Reply:Personally I believe you should know how to count in increments at least to 16. If you are doing residential it comes in handy sometimes. You should of course know addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. You should know your circle math, and triangle math. You definitely need to know your 3,4,5 triangle your 6,8,10 triangle and your 12,16,20 triangle. Because if you are going to core through walls, to allow a branch pipe to pass through a wall. Many times the main pipe is not perpendicular to walls it is passing through, so you cannot just measure off the wall the main is passing through and core away. Sometimes you have to create a 12,16,20 triangle to see where to core the hole. There is no other way, other than to "gun sight" it which can be hard to set up. And it can introduce variables because such a short sample distance is used. I always gun sight before I core incase I have made some silly mistake that is obvious when you gun sight it. To do the triangle square method, you may need a plumb bob or just use a chalk line as a plumb bob, to set the 12 foot side of the triangle directly under the main pipe you are going to branch off of, and chalk it on the floor. Then swing a short arc 16 feet out, approximately 90 degrees to the main. Then swing a 20 foot short arc. Where the two arcs intersect is the point that shows where 90 degrees from the pipe is. You can extend that line further if needed by just creating a chalk line parallel to the 16 foot long line. Most of this is not math, it is the reality. Math is almost retard simple, knowing how to apply it is unnerving. You can do this by yourself with a ladder and simple tools in a few minutes. Sometimes there are boilers in the way, and you need three guys three ladder, and three tape measures. Or you have to set the 12,16,20 triangle so the intersection of the arcs meets the wall that the main is penetrating. Then you can use a line and just compensate back to the place on the main you are taping into and move the line off the wall at the point the triangle intersected the wall the amount you need to compensate. Not much math at all really. Math to me is more like the muscle necessary to do the job the raw brute force. All the rest is the art and the know how.
After you are out in the field you know that you cannot count on fancy laser systems, especially when there are ten guys just standing there getting paid over $70 an hour. So you have to be ready to jump in with these kinds of procedures. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:IMO, we all have an intuition or aptitude for some things and no matter how hard we try there are some concepts we will never "get". Have pride in the things you do well and have a cohort, mentor, friend, colleague, that will get you through the tasks that get you hogtied. A friend is a very good nurse that that is excellent at patient care but simply can't pull off the math involved in proportions for med delivery. She has always found someone in her circle that gets her over this hurdle. I sometimes work with a couple of other guys doing sitework; they grumble every time when it comes to layout; why are plans in hundredths when it is a feet and inches world (well, OK, the US), I pickup the task and it is second nature to me... 5 1/2" = .46" and so on. I read an article that brought up an excellent point; instead of focusing on the things we don't know (and continuing to struggle with them), we should stick with what we do best and enjoy it. Eddie Van Halen started on the drums, would it make sense for him to master them or move on to being a god on the guitar? So, don't sweat the math stuff.As others have said, having the right teacher is important; Geometry is easy for me but I can still remember the struggle I had in 6th grade with angle/side relationships, the teacher made something simple into something so complex that I thought it was so complicated that I didn't understand the concepts. Moral of the story; get someone to help you that knows how to teach the subject.Thunderbolt AC/DC330AB/P + Bernard coolerSyncrowave 250Oxy/Ace torchDayton 160 MIG6CF pot with 185 compressorToo much big equipmentEven more small tools
Reply:Most people over simplify the tape measure they never define it. It is a calculator that breaks down inches to, half inches, quarter inches, one eighth inches and one sixteenth inches. Some tapes total inches, some tapes total inches and show feet divisions, larger tape measures total feet and show inches between feet. Some tape measures show 16" divisions. And if you have a line to measure that falls in between a sixteenth mark, or you mark a line between the 1/16" division, it will do 1/32" accuracy. Centering tape measures have the centering marks, that show you the center for any distance you measure. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.And don't mistakenly grab an engineers tape which is in tenths and hundredths of a foot!! I have one I keep in my toolbox just to mess with other folks mind. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:
Originally Posted by Broccoli1
What was the question?
Reply:
Originally Posted by mla2ofus
And don't mistakenly grab an engineers tape which is in tenths and hundredths of a foot!! I have one I keep in my toolbox just to mess with other folks mind. Mike
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
I wish I could take credit for purposely taking my time - it's mostly because I've screwed up in the past (and made cutting/welding/bending mistakes) that makes sure I draw and think before doing. Plus math doesn't come easy for me - I have to work at it. I make sure to remind my students that it only looks easy because I've done this so many times.I try and prepare them for the fact that precise answers that include integers and easy fractions are often not the norm in careers. Choices must be made to determine the necessary amount of precision. That includes whether a person even has the ability or equipment to be that precise.I can definitely compliment your solutions and experience with career related math - some of your work has ended up on my "smart board" for class discussion.
Reply:If you learn how to weld pipe, you don't have to know math. Let the pipefitters take care of that.
Reply:
Originally Posted by TimmyTIG
If you learn how to weld pipe, you don't have to know math. Let the pipefitters take care of that.
Reply:Wrong postLast edited by dmatt; 03-14-2017 at 09:57 AM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by walker
Unfortunately not an option for a lot of us. I do the materials take off, order the pipe, cut it, fit it, weld it, pressure test it, document it, invoice it, and hopefully get paid for it.
Reply:She's just trying to get a job, not be a one person fab shop.
Reply:Timmy, she needs to get on a production welding job where there's very little call for math skills, just keep that hood down and burn that wire and start improving her math skills while earning a paycheck. When she learns to use math along with welding then she can aspire to a less boring welding job. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Don't feel bad.I FAILED general math 4 straight years in high school. Straight F's every time..But now look.Everything I do has to deal with numbers. Being a machinist....Math is needed every minute of every day. Doing math with your hands is 100 times easier than with your brain.Get a good calculator..like the one in every phone and have at it.Don't let it get you down.Make it make you stand up for yourself and say " I can do this"....zap!
I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing
Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:
Originally Posted by zapster
Don't feel bad.I FAILED general math 4 straight years in high school. Straight F's every time..But now look.Everything I do has to deal with numbers. ...zap!
Reply:Oscar I get head aches when I use my brain too much :/ LOLLincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:google: Khan Academy-It's free-It goes at your own pace-You can choose topics and grade levels to study-The questions include hints to click on and videos to click on-It also makes a nice smiley face and a pleasing "ding" when you get stuff right
Reply:Some of the MOST TALENTED people I know at everyday mathematics are carpenters and machinists who can do it in their head all day long because of PRACTICE for years.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Oscar I get head aches when I use my brain too much :/ LOL
Reply:have you tried getting on at some of the trailer builders in caldwell? If you are green you are probably would not be valuable to a fab shop, you need to find a trigger pulling job, find one of the places that need someone to keep there head under the hood all day welding widgets, and just pay attention and it will start to make sense. I never finished 8th grade most of my job related math I know I learned on the job and I always have a calculator with me.Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
That is not just math that is real world understanding. You have to subtract six blade cuts, from 240 inches. And then divide by 7 pieces. But most and I mean most guys mess that up real well. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:The local college here has added a "Math for the Trades" class after finding that there was a need, look around, there is a class out there.
Reply:this is my m.o. and it's stood me in good stead my whole 45 year career. forget the fancy math unless you like it then by all means knock yourself out. add,subtract,know some simple fractions and know how to read a ruler. spend the time instead being the best welder/burner in the shop. buy a good solar powered calculator and keep it in your locker. if you want to do trick math be an engineer.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I agree with docwelder, the main thing is to learn how to read a tape measure.
Reply:
Originally Posted by TimmyTIG
I agree with docwelder, the main thing is to learn how to read a tape measure. |
|
发表于 2021-9-1 23:16:26