Stainless Steel Bird Cages

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Hey all, I have limited experience stick welding from about 15 years ago and I know things have changed so I need some advice.I want to weld some large parrot cages but I'm not quite sure what type of metal to use with what type of welding gear and materials.  I want to use stainless steel for the cage and I'm going to construct it using bars and square tube.  The bars will mount in a drilled hole into the square tube and be welded in place.Anyway, I'm just wondering if I can pick up an inexpensive Lincoln welder or if I should grab a MIG or something a bit more powerful.  The welds I need to do will have to put up with a VERY strong parrot squeezing and trying to remove the bars. The steel bars would be from 1/8" to 1/4" thick.  What else do you need to know to point me in the right direction?
Reply:Hey chadk            I'm going to suggest a mig welding process for you, only because of its ease of operation. A small stick welder is an option but I think you will be much happier with the welds produced by a mig machine. I dont know what kind of budget your on. It will cost more than a stick welder. Im also going to suggest you go with flux core only because the initial cost will be lower with out having to buy regulators ect.          Here is a AWS classification for a  stainless steel fcaw electrode, and its parameters, exxxt1-1/4Diameter  .035welding position,  flat and uphillcurrent,   flat 140,    uphill 95volts 24 to 23  no you cant fix it with a hot pass.BORN TO LOSE, LIVE TO WIN.
Reply:Chad,  Are you making this for yourself or wanting to make several to sell?  I'm already down-sizing, but if you were making these to sell, I just wanted to encourage you.  I'd be wanting one, but we are actually selling our Congo African Grey.  I remember after getting him that I didn't like the cages available, even expensive ones, and wanted to build my own, but it just wasn't worth it for a one-time deal.  Anyway, a really nice stainless steel cage would be awesome.  Work well and enjoy the fruits of your labor.Wolfgang,  Doesn't a flux-cored stainless welding wire still require a shielding gas?  The ones I've seen do, but perhaps the one you described does not...  If it does, I know they produce excellent welds, but I don't see the cost savings over solid wire and shielding gas.  In fact, since flux-cored wires are much more expensive than solid wires, I would think the solid stainless wire with a shielding gas would be the more economical solution.
Reply:Mac your probably right about the cost now that I think about it more, seeing that flux core wire is more expensive. Now I haven't used self shielding flux core for stainless myself but I have read about it several times.no you cant fix it with a hot pass.BORN TO LOSE, LIVE TO WIN.
Reply:African Grey's are great birds.  Most talented in the bird world(which is debatable) when it comes to mimicing.  My friend bought a mated pair for around 2500.  She had a few other birds so I made a few nesting boxes out of sheetmetal(because they were eating though everything else).  But after a few months, they picked away at the sheetmetal and finially destroyed all of the boxes I had made.  Wish I would have thought of stainless.  But I just never realized how destructive some birds can be.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Originally posted by MAC702 [B]Chad,  Are you making this for yourself or wanting to make several to sell?  I'm already down-sizing, but if you were making these to sell, I just wanted to encourage you.  I'd be wanting one, but we are actually selling our Congo African Grey.  I remember after getting him that I didn't like the cages available, even expensive ones, and wanted to build my own, but it just wasn't worth it for a one-time deal.  Anyway, a really nice stainless steel cage would be awesome.  Work well and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Reply:Hey Brainfarth, and anyone else.. Have a look at the baby greys we just hatched on the live web-cam:go to the webcam section on the menu under Other/Misc:http://www.aviary.infoor go directly (refresh updates the picture):http://freakarmy.serveftp.com:8080/ChadSite AdminAviary.infoForums, Classifieds, Auctions, Photos, Web Cams + more
Reply:Originally posted by ChadK I've priced some steel and it seems reasonable.  I think I could get the steel together for a good sized 4'X4'X4' cage for about $200.  Add maybe $100 in other supplies and shipping and I could sell them for around $300 or so I think.
Reply:Ha.. Actually what I meant was I'd sell them to people buying parrots from me for that price.Depending upon how long each one takes to make would determine the price as you know.  It may be that I can't do a cage for less than $500 but that's still about half the going rate for stainless and for this size, quite possibly a quarter the price.though, I still haven't found anyone in my area that can offer the stainless and the sources I located on the net seem quite expensive.  I had a quote for quite a bit less than I've seen so far, but I'm starting to suspect something might've been wrong with the $200 quote I had.Though, that's why I'm here.  I need to learn more about the steel I need and where to get it.ChadSite AdminAviary.infoForums, Classifieds, Auctions, Photos, Web Cams + more
Reply:I found some stainless steel 304 rod on EBAY for some yard art I'm going to try and make. The place has .234 diameter, 50" lengths, about 150' for about $16+ about $16 shipping. They also had a bunch of 1/8" stuff. Don't know if thats a good deal or not but thought I'd mention it. Do a search on stainless steel rod or 304 stainless rod.
Reply:So That's cut and straight?  Sounds like a good deal.. do you recall where you're getting it from? I'd like to check it out.ChadSite AdminAviary.infoForums, Classifieds, Auctions, Photos, Web Cams + more
Reply:Chad,  I need to sell my bird, hopefully within a week or two.  He's a beautiful CAG, born in Sept. 2001.  Loves to talk and can whistle tunes, even while he's hearing them for the first time.Know anyone who might be interested?  We're in Las Vegas.Is asking $1000 with the two cages reasonable?  Thanks for your experienced opinion.Mac
Reply:Chad, do an EBAY extended search in the completed item area for '304 stainless rod' You will see a bunch of hits showing rod that has been sold. Pick one and the seller id should be 'ntwaterman'. You should be able to send him  a query from there. He doesn't advertise a real store so I don't really know any more.I bought both the .234 and 1/8 from him and all pieces were straight and true when I got it. Even the burrs had been ground off the ends.
Reply:Welding little stainless rods- flux core technically would work, but in reality, forget it. It makes a big mess. And even after you spend hours and hours cleaning it, chiselling, wire brushing, grinding and swearing, it still aint gonna look good enough to sell for lots of money.You have to tig it. no two ways about it. I weld a lot of stainless- last year we fabbed up somewhere around 4 tons of 3/8" round bar into complicated shapes. And tig is the only way to go. No grinding, no cleanup- when you are done welding, you are done. The good news is, you are working with stuff small enough you can get by with a little tig welder, like an the miller or lincolns that sell for under $1500. As far as stainless prices go- stainless is a commodity, like steel, and the prices go up and down, mostly up, with the market. Last september I was paying 1.20 a pound for small round bar. Last month, it was about twice that- over 2 bucks a pound. It may go up, may go down- so its hard to come up with a retail price for a cage when your material might cost from 50 bucks to 150 bucks. Everything about fabricating stainless costs more than mild steel- you use more of everything, like sawblades and abrasives, as it is just plain HARD. I would recommend a small 4x6 bandsaw with bimetal blades as the best way to cut it, about 300 bucks. You will go thru sanding discs- you need a 4 1/2" grinder, and alumina zirconium flap discs are best, cheapest way to clean up burrs and cut edges. So figure a minimum of 2 grand to set up to make these cages, then you will need to figure on argon usage for your tig welder, material costs, and your labor. So you start to see why the commercial ones cost as much as they do. Of course, if you start going into any kind of mass production on these, you will quickly want more tools, bigger, faster, more expensive tools. Still, if you have good designs, I think you could make money making these. Bird people spend a lot of bucks- and thats the kind of customers you want.
Reply:I agree with Ries. TIG is the only way to weld stainless. I know from bitter experience that MIG welding stainless steel is a huge pain in the butt. I do a lot of it and I can tell you that the only way you could do  the type of welding you wanna do and not have tons of spatter is with pulse welding. ($$$$$)