Welding square hollow section

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I don't know what you guys call it, but we call it 'square hollow section'. It's sort of a square tube and it comes in lots of different sizes.I was welding some on the weekend 40mm x 40mm x 2mm wall thickness. (40mm would be about an inch and a half.)I was stick welding butt joints and I kept blowing holes in it. I had the amps down, but too far down and I don't get sufficient penetration. I managed to fill the holes, but it would be preferable not to be making them in the first place.I bet there's a really easy tactic for welding this stuff.Scott
Reply:Hiya Scott although im one of those americans that feel that the metric system is just part of a communist conspiricy to make me have twice as many tools and make twice as many trips out from under whatever im working on ill try to give ya a hand being that thin and not knowing ur metal type i would say E6012(british E4332R12) or a E6013(british E4332R21)the 6012 was designed for sheet metal in particular but the 6013 has a shallower penetration.both will need a faster run then a 6010also u may want to start ur rod and get it warm on another peice of metal due to fact ya need relatively low amps and starting could be a real bear25-50 amps for 1/16 rod 40-100 on 3/32start at the low end and work ur way upkeep in mind also that while ur buzzbox is nowhere near as tempormental about dirt as a tig,sqaure and rectangle tube here in the states is extremely crudy inside and out as well as usualy being coated with a type black grease that looks like scale but isnthope that helps a bit...not a big stick fan myself but i have my shop refrence sitting beside my comp
Reply:For ridgerunner, since he seems to have the rods and heat down pretty good.     That 2mm thickness is just shy of our .080 wall, half way between 13 and 14 awg, about 5/64ths. That narrow it down any??
Reply:Thanks guys.im one of those americans that feel that the metric system is just part of a communist conspiricy to make me have twice as many tools and make twice as many trips out from under whatever im working on
Reply:lol yeah Sandylike i said in my post im not a big stick user...im fairly competent with em far as the welding itself but most my experience was in oa to start thenmig and tig...thinnist stuff ive screwed with with arc is some 1/8 and mostly 3/16ref says(rough split of swg) around 100 amps with a 1/8(3.2) rod...not being a stick man id say that was a bit high but like ive said decent startin point
Reply:yeah i agree on the misguided democracy push...but im a redneck and personaly woulda turned it into a glass parking lot soon as they didnt turn over the pricks...rather walk softly and carry a biiig stick the try to beat em to death with a wiffleball bat
Reply:Hello ScottI have all different types of electrode clasifercation guides avaliable in OZ (cigweld, WIA, ect. ect.) I will put some of them together and post them for you.If you would like to know anything in perticular give me a yell and I will send it to you.Simonhttp://members.optusnet.com.au/~abba/index.html
Reply:Scott I thought about it and I will give you the links for the cigweld and the WIA sites as the hand books are about 500 pages thick. Have a look around and you will find a full list of the electrodes they sell and a lot of other useful information.Cigweldhttp://www.cigweld.com.au/cigweld/index.aspWiahttp://www.welding.com.au/Simonhttp://members.optusnet.com.au/~abba/index.html
Reply:Scott, For those times when I must use stick on thin sections, I find it helpful to have a bare electrode (I use a 7018 due to the ease of removing flux) of the same size or a bit smaller to use as a filler. Have it in your other hand and feed it in as necessary, in a oxy weld sort of way. It adds more wire to control the "heat " of things, but lets you have the amps up high enough for ease of welding and proper penetration.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:I reckon 2mm is easier to get your head around than Quote:about 5/64ths
Reply:5 out of 4 people have serious problems with fractions.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:howdy Howdy!  Just an idea, on anything thinner then 1/8", it's really difficult to get penetration deeper then 60%, without burn though.  If you are happy with that, then sweet.  Your good to go.  Don't expect 100% penetration on thinner things, unless you weld it from each side.  Also, if your not grinding down the excess, then you don't usually nead to get full penetration as the top of the bead ovre laps the parent material and that bridge should be as thick if not thicker then the parent material.  2 things I guess.  60 % penetration max or you'll burn through, and don't grind off the top of the bead to level, if you want full strength on such thin materials.  My 2 cents...  Brian Lee  Sparkeee27
Reply:Originally Posted by ridgerunnerHiya Scott although im one of those americans that feel that the metric system is just part of a communist conspiricy to make me have twice as many tools and make twice as many trips out from under whatever im working on ill try to give ya a hand being that thin and not knowing ur metal type i would say E6012(british E4332R12) or a E6013(british E4332R21)the 6012 was designed for sheet metal in particular but the 6013 has a shallower penetration.both will need a faster run then a 6010also u may want to start ur rod and get it warm on another peice of metal due to fact ya need relatively low amps and starting could be a real bear25-50 amps for 1/16 rod 40-100 on 3/32start at the low end and work ur way upkeep in mind also that while ur buzzbox is nowhere near as tempormental about dirt as a tig,sqaure and rectangle tube here in the states is extremely crudy inside and out as well as usualy being coated with a type black grease that looks like scale but isnthope that helps a bit...not a big stick fan myself but i have my shop refrence sitting beside my comp
Reply:Thanks for all that guys.Tessdad, I'm not sure my coordination skills are good enough to try your suggestion, but I'll give it a go. I've got some rods in the bin that I've accidently trodden on, so they're pretty bare anyway.Sparkee, to take your point, I probably should be a bit more sparing with the grinder when welding hollow sections with thin walls.Sandy, yep this clears it up:5/64ths is a smidgeon bigger than 1/16th but a tad thinner than 3/32nds.
Reply:Hey Ridgerunner,You said:the 6012 was designed for sheet metal in particular
Reply:scotti weld these almost everyday, 6013 at 50 amp ac is what i use.don't weave, straight, just a short arc and fast!! a 40mm side must take btw5-6 seconds (but i really have to check because was a long ago that i was training people) and get full penetration.regarding the metric system, gentlemen i must say that was GOD who invented it while giving us (mostly) ten fingers.haha
Reply:Thanks Penca.I've written that down along with lots of the other contributions in this string.Being conversant with metric, I take it you're not American?
Reply:Scott NO such thing as a dopey question except asking ifts ok to ask one!!! stick welding of sheet metal has been around a long time(just havent done much of it myself) the only difference between what ur doing(being 2mm)and sheet is that with no bends in the sheet the warpage factor has to be taken into even more consideration than with a structural steel element as well as a heck of a lot more slag to clean up.there are even special electrode holders you can buy that stich the metal together by pulsing ur arc welders voltage to the electrode thus helping to slow the warp and possibilities of a burnthru. Penca yeah i can see where your coming from about metric ,I started out as a machinist so the only time i realy deal with even fractions is when im working on something and even then i tend to convert to 3 decimal places In my head.It's almost worth the laugh to see the look on the clerks face in a home depot or lowes store when ya ask for some .875 shank bolts aka 7/8.My biggest problem is that if ya have anything in the states made in the last 10yrs or so about half the hardware is metric and half standard sometimes even right next too each other on same part.Just to add insult to injury the first person to realy get me into working on bikes was an old british bike collector so I have some wittworth and various other tools in the mix.....!@#@!
Reply:ScottHeres a link...if i can make it work that is, to a very good selection of specialty tools.Kinda high prices on some of their stuff but they tend to carry stuff thats rather hard to find elseware. www.eastwoodco.comI'm sure shipping to your side of the world can put a hurtin on your wallet but sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do!!!